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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 7:57:59 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Okay, I admit...I just wanted to see more girls tied up outside Starbucks


My former Sir used to tie my shoe lace to my chair when I was being disrespectful. Wasnt being obvious and pressing our kink on anyone, but it was enough to remind me of my place...happened at Starbucks a few times in fact

(in reply to MissOchistic)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 8:37:19 AM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iwanttolearnhow

here is the deal.... we are both very very new to the scene. we have been dating for about two years  but finally came out to each other about our sexual interests about two months ago.... we talked about our fantasies which effectively amount to a situation wherein she wants to be very sub and I want to be very very dom.  So I am in a situation wherein I am a little torn. On the one hand I want to be what I am.... authoritative..... dominant.... firm... but I don't want to disrespect her.  So, when she acts rebellious, while I want to lay down the law I don't want to make her feel like a piece of crap. does that make sense?


Greetings,
 
Ahhhhh - and here is the rub - it seems that you both may want and enjoy the "fantasy" of D/s, but the reality? well that's quite another story.  Perhaps more discussion about exactly what D/s is to you both would be helpful. Maybe talk about control - what areas is she willing to relinquish control of? What areas or things do you want control over? i think it's very important to be as explicit as possible - i.e. I want to tell you exactly what to wear when we go out - or when you're at my house, i want you to cook for me and serve me. Talk about all of it. What does dominance mean to you beside in the bedroom? What does submission mean to her beside in the bedroom. There's no right or wrong way - only the way you both want it to be. Once the agreements are made, then decide if they are to be adhered to permanently or if you will renegotiate after a period of time. Once the agreement is permanent then there needs to be an honest commitment on both sides to abide by the agreement no matter what - no "i'll do it if it feels good" kind of thing. Hope this is helpful.


_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 11:05:00 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iwanttolearnhow

here is the deal.... we are both very very new to the scene. we have been dating for about two years  but finally came out to each other about our sexual interests about two months ago.... we talked about our fantasies which effectively amount to a situation wherein she wants to be very sub and I want to be very very dom.  So I am in a situation wherein I am a little torn. On the one hand I want to be what I am.... authoritative..... dominant.... firm... but I don't want to disrespect her.  So, when she acts rebellious, while I want to lay down the law I don't want to make her feel like a piece of crap. does that make sense?


How many D/s relationships have either of you had before?  In other words, you have no experience dominating healthily and she has no experience submitting from a place of power.  Cut yourself a lot of slack, I went through the same stuff you are doing and hell I STILL run into these issues on some level.

Many of us come into this with an image of what our D/s "should" be.  Combine our preconcieved notions, add in our innability to communicate clearly, plus a lack of self knowlege is a perfect recipe for disaster.  If you can recognize that it will be a disaster until you find your own path, you guys have a chance.

Back to dealing with her rebellion, I at times just say "yes mistress" and that is often enough of a shock to get them to stop and look at what they are doing.  When new submissives act out, it is usually they are freaking out about wanting something "bad" or they are doing it to evoke a dominant response.  You can't beat her into dealing with this you have to lead her out of it.  You need to show her it is safe to talk to you about her issues, ie "I feel like a bad slut (as opposed to a wonderful glorious one) when you tell me to do X".  You need to show strength when she is trying to get you to act dominant and slowly teach  her dominance is about YOU wanting something, not her.  She wants you to make her walk behind her, or choose her outfit, or whatever.  You keep that in the back of your head, tell her she will walk wherever YOU want and you will pick her outfit when YOU want.  Make her do the opposite of what she wants and then soon after when she behaves well later, THEN force her to do those things she needs.

It takes a long time as a dominant to realize that making her do awful disgusting things IS what she needs from you.  She does need to be "taken down" but by a man who she knows loves and respects her.  From the outside it looks bad, but SHE knows you think she is glorious when she is crawling even if you are telling her ugly things at the time.  Some of us men are taught to treat women "well" and find it hard to do otherwise as it messes with our heads.  I make it a point to open her door even if at the time I am telling her she is a cocksucking little whore.  I open the door to take care of her heart and I call her a whore to take care of her cunt, her mind is taken care of because she knows I am taking care of ALL of her.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 11:06:11 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dane

Rebellious behaviour can come from many things and I can't tell which it is from your letter. She may be testing your resolve, or just being playful, or wordlessly begging you for more domination. It's up to you to take her aside, and without shutting her down or making her feel like she can't be honest with you, get her to talk to you about the reasons she's doing this. You'll be groping in the dark until you know the cause of the behaviour, so that's what I'd address first.


For someone with only 16 posts, this is succinct and right on the mark!  I look forward to more posts from you!

(in reply to Dane)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 1:49:51 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissOchistic

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Public kink isn't the same as public domination.  Just because one finds it unacceptable to be leashed in a vanilla public area does not mean they are against being submissive to someone in public.

If she ENJOYS it, wouldn't that take away from the lesson you are trying to teach that her behavior was unacceptable?


Okay, I admit...I just wanted to see more girls tied up outside Starbucks.



Who doesnt?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MissOchistic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 3:25:44 PM   
Lewcifer


Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		It is difficult to reply to You without making possibly wrong assumptions, because of a lack of both specificity and context in your post.  Before formulating a plan of action, You need to commence and conclude the information gathering phase.  During this phase, You need to gauge the reliability of the data (feedback) received... such as the honesty of the answers when/if You ask questions of Your sub.  There are various subjective and objective tests you can apply to reasonably gauge this.  From there, you'll be able to formulate an appropriate corrective plan of action.

Each case is going to be different, and it's nearly impossible to offer you useful and worthwhile general advice as to what the proper solution is.  All I can offer is a plan of action... it's up to You to implement it, analyze the results, reach a conclusion and then work a solution.

One technique, which I've used effectively, is to intimate that perhaps the sub should just be in a plain-vanilla relationship with Me (without saying why I think that).  You then use their objection or denial of that thought to open up further communication on why You think this... "you're not very obedient... in particular you disobey by [insert detailed example here]... which makes Me think you don't take this seriously."  The key here is to understand how to frame Your questions in a way which makes her be the one to come up with reasons why she needs to be obedient.  You then simply reinforce that committment, which in turn leads her to solidify her committment with You.


_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 6:22:39 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iwanttolearnhow

I am fairly new to the scene... ok, very new, but I really love it and feel that I am home... but I am not yet at the point where I know what to do as a dom. So, I have a situation and I need advice from doms and subs alike. I am with a woman who is a sub but who can be very rebellious. At times, she gets more rebellious the more that I assert myself in the relationship. I know that in general I do a good job because of the way she responds to my authority... particularly in the bedroom. But, sometimes, when we are out in public she will act in a way that challenges my dominance over her. I don't know the best way to respond.... what is the best way to put one's sub in her place immediately and without fail when in public? Thank you all



As with many things, the beginning is the most important part of the work.

When a responsible buyer purchases a pet, she will often consider a number of factors—such as quality of breeding, obedience and overall disposition. Selecting a human pet is not much different; we must be certain they possess the qualities we seek and are not merely emulating them. Knowing how to measure those qualities accurately takes some degree of effort, experience, and simple trial and error.

Since you state your are inexperienced, perhaps your selection was not the best it could have been. Perhaps you need to hone your own understanding of what separates authentic submission and domination from their kinky facades. If you feel this girl is worth the time and effort, delve deep into her mind and talk with her. Sharing dreams and visions in simple conversation does wonders in bringing two minds to closer harmony and understanding. If the problem persists, correct it and don't make a game of that correction. Above all, avoid getting locked in an enabling pattern of unwanted behavior. An unwanted behavioral event can be and should be overcome with loving correction, but a pattern should be utterly destroyed. If that means discarding the servant along with the pattern, so be it.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 7:15:56 PM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		How disrespectful is she?  Is she crossing a line that any vanilla would consider is being flat rude?  Or is she just teasing a little and not totally submissive?

You two need to do a LOT of talking, to define where you want the relationship to go.  It's up to you how you build it, since you're both learning and don't even know what you really want or like yet.

Set some boundaries, see what works for both of you, keep refining and redefining until you're both satisfied.

Maybe she's testing you, maybe she's trying to set up a situation where she'll be punished later for her misdeeds, maybe she's naturally irritating, maybe she thinks you like things this way, maybe she's embarrassed at being too submissive in case her friends guess.... talk to her, find out.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/2/2007 11:06:57 PM   
GoddessinDallas


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/25/2006
Status: offline 		No one can advise you appropriately.
We don't know you or her.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/3/2007 12:16:51 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		You've gotten some very good advice. 

For me only...I don't do brats.  My rules for the beginnings of a relationship have been spelled out on here before on rules threads so I would say that you ignore the behavior and keep a grip on yourself.  Continue to be a gentleman and display your dominance and then, when you get home, you set her aside and talk quietly and seriously about the issue.  You do not want to come at it from the mistaken perception that she is deliberately being bratty so you need to ask and find out where her behavior is coming from.  Encourage her honesty by not being bullying or in "punishment" mode since this is new to you...this behavior...and you do not know yet that there is anything to discipline or correct or punish for.

Once she gives her reasons, then you can work from there.  Good luck to you.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 3:39:36 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings

my slave is so rebillous i could scream but then he is sweet and funny. but at times order are not follow . he wants a beating he has told me this tell me. he is different then any other slave i have had i will give this beating and why would he want this so bad help dom and dommes and submissive too
thanks you
mons

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 12:45:10 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		I think you need to sit down and talk about it and discourage her from this, if it is something that you dont wish to happen . Comuinication is the key here . Let her know that you feel that is disrespecting you and that will  not be tolerated .. correct her , dont slap her on the wrist and say  * Bad girl* Make it have some sort of lasting  effect.. I also do think that in public things do change quite a bit  but its always there hence why I Like * The Look* .. I dont have to say a word to a sub  for her to get the idea that I am displeased by her actions ... I think that she would be disciplined , corrected , first and foremost and if that didnt stop it , well then she would be punished , and if punishment continued to fail, well then and only then would I think of releasing her.... Just My opinon here.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 12:49:41 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		Oh and one more thing, I think that many fail to realize that a punishment is  NOT going to be Physical from Me... way too many like the physical pain and they will continue to be bad as long as you are giving them what they are seeking .. Ie physical pain etc .. NEVER punish her when you are angry .. and always make sure the punishment fits the crime .!

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 1:13:18 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Asking questions is a method I find works well, thanks for reminding me of a basic I had been leaving on the shelf gathering dust. LOL.

What are you trying to control?
Why are you trying to control it?

rebellion is aserting control over something you have agreed not to try to control.

Many times they will not have the answer to what they are actually trying to control or why, right away.

By asking the question you have subtly reminded them they agreed you would control XYZ and they are attempting to take back that control with their behavior.

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 1:19:39 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		Agrees with Archer .. without commuinication this will fail miserably , sorry to say but so true

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 1:23:38 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		It can even become a code question that tells them they have crossed some boundry.

My old favorite was "Excuse me???????" with the rest of the question being understood through context.

It's almost always about asking the right questions.
What are you doing????
What are you trying to control and why?????
Will controling this benifit you really in the long run????
What is it you are trying to accomplish???
What is the goal of you behaviour????

Don't forget to ask yourself these questions from time to time as well.

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 1:29:24 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
My old favorite was "Excuse me???????" with the rest of the question being understood through context.


When combined with the appropriate stare, "Excuse me?" works wonders!  If I am feeling particularly hip I might go for the old "Oh no you di-int!"

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 7/9/2007 2:41:35 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I am assuming that you both want total power exchange.
If you haven't discussed training then do so.
Training means to bring about a change of behaviour and it takes time.
Tell her what you didn't like.
Tell her that she must change her behaviour from ABC to XYZ.
If she does then praise her and indulge her in doing something that you know she likes.
Is she doesn't discipline her in a way that you know she doesn't like.
I have no problems about negotiating training methods but you may have.
I train people without their consent all the time.
It's BDSM and sexual kink that you need consent for.


(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 58
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