RE: public leash (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:02:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I remember walking to a fetish event in London with Darcy last year.  He led me on a leash.  We walked through London at about 10 at night, past a bar with people watching. 



That is my point exactly. That would be an appropriate time and place, in a time and area where one would expect to be among adults. What I have a problem with, is at the shopping mall, a place and time where children can be expected to be about. There are some places that are adult oriented, and some places that are oriented towards the general public, most of whom do not want to see this.




This is going to sound harsh I know buuuuuut....
 
Other peoples children aren't my responsibility - if their parents want them to grow up sheltered and to be condecending of peoples personal choices, then thats their responsibility.  If my child is out and sees a woman dressed in a burkah, or two men holding hands and it bothers them or they see it as different, they know they can ask me about it.  And I tell them.  I can think of far more bothersome images my children can view walking around a mall, in magazines and on TV, than someone walking around in a collar and leash.  I am NOT going to let another persons morality infect my morality.  If they choose to let my morality infect theirs - again, their problem and how they deal with it hey.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
No they aren't. Legally. However, I really don't get this arguement that if a parent doesn't want their kid to see a couple walking around on a leash when they are five, that is sheltering them. Hell for all you know the kid was sexually abused and the parent is trying to avoid them having a flashback.
 
Personally, I truly believe that everyone has a responsibility to teach children courtesy, integity, manners, and that it's not acceptable to run over people with cars. If someone doesn't believe that, that's fine with me - I just won't let my children be around them. But I don't think being condecending about a person's parenting style is any better then someone being condecending about a person wearing a leash in public.
 
My .02 on this whole "sheltering" thing - which by the way, has little to do with my opinion on wearing a leash on public. I still don't think it's the most courteous thing to do, but I don't think it's indecent either. [:)]



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:02:26 PM)

I never said to be courteous revolves around not injurying someone.  But I don't live my life for others.  I live for Darcy and I.  You could spend all day trying to please everyone and still offend someone.  I have no problem walking down the street with Darcy and the cuffs attached to his belt.  I don't have any qualms about taking photographs of a public setting and risking 'offending' someone just because they might invade my shot.  I am not offended by people wearing visable thong lines above their hipster jeans or wearing a corset - or a young couple kissing deeply on a table in a restaurant when I am out with my children.  None of these things are disturbing or morally disgusting.  It's just life and choices of individuals.  Where is the line between being courteous to me, and being courteous to them?
 
It isn't so black and white.
Peace
the.dark.



AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:07:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I never said to be courteous revolves around not injurying someone.  But I don't live my life for others.  I live for Darcy and I.  You could spend all day trying to please everyone and still offend someone.  I have no problem walking down the street with Darcy and the cuffs attached to his belt.  I don't have any qualms about taking photographs of a public setting and risking 'offending' someone just because they might invade my shot.  I am not offended by people wearing visable thong lines above their hipster jeans or wearing a corset - or a young couple kissing deeply on a table in a restaurant when I am out with my children.  None of these things are disturbing or morally disgusting.  It's just life and choices of individuals.  Where is the line between being courteous to me, and being courteous to them?
 
It isn't so black and white.
Peace
the.dark.

 
Very little in life is black and white. The question, for me, is am I going to sink to another's level simply because they were discourteous to me?

I would not find wearing cuffs on my belt discourteous, nor handcuffs on my backpack. I would find going to the level of being leashed in the middle of the mall in the middle of the day discourteous.

Everyone is discourteous from time to time. It is simply a matter of what you are willing to be discourteous about. I am not willing, most times and most places, to be discourteous when it comes to BDSM.



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:08:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I remember walking to a fetish event in London with Darcy last year.  He led me on a leash.  We walked through London at about 10 at night, past a bar with people watching. 



That is my point exactly. That would be an appropriate time and place, in a time and area where one would expect to be among adults. What I have a problem with, is at the shopping mall, a place and time where children can be expected to be about. There are some places that are adult oriented, and some places that are oriented towards the general public, most of whom do not want to see this.




This is going to sound harsh I know buuuuuut....
 
Other peoples children aren't my responsibility - if their parents want them to grow up sheltered and to be condecending of peoples personal choices, then thats their responsibility.  If my child is out and sees a woman dressed in a burkah, or two men holding hands and it bothers them or they see it as different, they know they can ask me about it.  And I tell them.  I can think of far more bothersome images my children can view walking around a mall, in magazines and on TV, than someone walking around in a collar and leash.  I am NOT going to let another persons morality infect my morality.  If they choose to let my morality infect theirs - again, their problem and how they deal with it hey.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
No they aren't. Legally. However, I really don't get this arguement that if a parent doesn't want their kid to see a couple walking around on a leash when they are five, that is sheltering them. Hell for all you know the kid was sexually abused and the parent is trying to avoid them having a flashback.
 
Personally, I truely believe that everyone has a responsibility to teach children courtesy, integity, manners, and that it's not acceptable to run over people with cars. If someone doesn't believe that, that's fine with me - I just won't let my children be around them. But I don't think being condecending about a person's parenting style is any better then someone being condecending about a person wearing a leash in public.
 
My .02 on this whole "sheltering" thing.


But then you could say that about clowns.  A friend of mine has a child who hates clowns and had a terrible fright at a birthday party - from that moment clowns became an obsession.  So anyone who wore face paint - that child would scream and vomit and just go hysterical - but should people not wear facepain or be a clown - just because someone, somewhere suffered once upon a time?  Another friends child I know had a terrible fright due to a loud noise in a church hall.  After that, the child could not tollerate loud noise and would burst into tears and shake.  So by your post, now no one can allow their car to backfire, or hold airshows, or drop anything in public just in case some child has suffered abuse or trauma?  I am sorry Aqua, but that is just an argument that doesn't work for me.

Peace
the.dark.



AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark



But then you could say that about clowns.  A friend of mine has a child who hates clowns and had a terrible fright at a birthday party - from that moment clowns became an obsession.  So anyone who wore face paint - that child would scream and vomit and just go hysterical - but should people not wear facepain or be a clown - just because someone, somewhere suffered once upon a time?  Another friends child I know had a terrible fright due to a loud noise in a church hall.  After that, the child could not tollerate loud noise and would burst into tears and shake.  So by your post, now no one can allow their car to backfire, or hold airshows, or drop anything in public just in case some child has suffered abuse or trauma?  I am sorry Aqua, but that is just an argument that doesn't work for me.

Peace
the.dark.


No. What I was saying was that it seems very odd to assume that these parents are sheltering their children by not wanting them exposed to something like this, and not acting reasonably based on their knowledge of their child. Knowledge you don't have.



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:14:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I never said to be courteous revolves around not injurying someone.  But I don't live my life for others.  I live for Darcy and I.  You could spend all day trying to please everyone and still offend someone.  I have no problem walking down the street with Darcy and the cuffs attached to his belt.  I don't have any qualms about taking photographs of a public setting and risking 'offending' someone just because they might invade my shot.  I am not offended by people wearing visable thong lines above their hipster jeans or wearing a corset - or a young couple kissing deeply on a table in a restaurant when I am out with my children.  None of these things are disturbing or morally disgusting.  It's just life and choices of individuals.  Where is the line between being courteous to me, and being courteous to them?
 
It isn't so black and white.
Peace
the.dark.

 
Very little in life is black and white. The question, for me, is am I going to sink to another's level simply because they were discourteous to me?

I would not find wearing cuffs on my belt discourteous, nor handcuffs on my backpack. I would find going to the level of being leashed in the middle of the mall in the middle of the day discourteous.

Everyone is discourteous from time to time. It is simply a matter of what you are willing to be discourteous about. I am not willing, most times and most places, to be discourteous when it comes to BDSM.


But that just comes down to subjective thought Aqua.  I don't find a leash discoureous - you do.  I am sure you do something I find discourteous.  Some people find smoking in public discourteous.  Playing music.  Reading.  Eating.  Its all down to personal morality and likes and dislikes - and I am not going to run my life for someone elses morals and what they like.  Where is the line?
 
Peace
the.dark.



AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:17:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

But that just comes down to subjective thought Aqua.  I don't find a leash discoureous - you do.  I am sure you do something I find discourteous.  Some people find smoking in public discourteous.  Playing music.  Reading.  Eating.  Its all down to personal morality and likes and dislikes - and I am not going to run my life for someone elses morals and what they like.  Where is the line?
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
As I said. We are all rude at times. I refuse to be discourteous when it involves BDSM because I feel BDSMers have a bad enough image as it is. It a personal choice, but one should realize that what they are doing can be viewed as discourteous. If that troubles them, then they should stop. If it doesn't, then don't.



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:21:08 PM)

Again, semantics and interpretation what shelter means.  Protect - that is what it means to me - but in a way that means they are no exposed to all possibilities.  Maybe it is a bad usage of a word - I'll hold my hands up to that.  So lets use the word protect instead - But if a person wants to protect their own child - then they have that responsibility then how they react to any given situation - not me.
 
Peace
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:24:48 PM)

I suppose it could be that I just don't think of my relationship as BDSM so I don't feel I need to protect it - it's a relationship where I submit and use the elements of BDSM within it.  But BDSM is no different from 'vanilla' relationships for me.  Life is just life.
 
Peace
the.dark.



AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:28:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I suppose it could be that I just don't think of my relationship as BDSM so I don't feel I need to protect it - it's a relationship where I submit and use the elements of BDSM within it.  But BDSM is no different from 'vanilla' relationships for me.  Life is just life.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
It's actually not a need a to protect my relationship that moviates me. Nothing can hurt my relationship with Valyraen except for us. It is a desire to present a nonthreatening face of d/s relationships and a hope for acceptence so I no longer have to worry if my future children will be taken away from me because of society's misconceptions about BDSM.



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:39:44 PM)

People will always use things against you Aqua - that sounds pretty negative I know - but be that BDSM, or your job, or the fact you like RPGs.  If someone wants to take your children away from you, they will find a door.  The reason D/s or BDSM is seen as bizarre or 'out-there' as a concept is because even we, who are 'in it' - seperate it from what is seen as 'normality'.  My point is, to me, it IS what is normal.  Making is 'non threatening' only makes it seem more different from my opinion.
 
Peace
the.dark.



MissOchistic -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:50:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherryLeopard

Certainly it could be fun for you to engage in a big public display, but I take the feelings of those around me in to consideration and would find it rather rude to walk a sub through a public mall on a full leash.  The vanilla folks in the mall haven't consented to seeing public D/s play so I try to respect that.  With that thought, a more subtle solution might be in order,  perhaps you could attach a short looped strap to a wrist cuff or bracelet-- more subtle but highly effective.  Or you could instruct the sub to follow exactly 2 steps behind you controlling their behavior that way.


I am fat. I am quite fine with being fat, although numerous people find it absolutely digusting and some even are repulsed by looking at it. Yet, imagine, me with the nerve to walk around in public malls, fat, without a care in the world as to who I offend.

I also sport multi colored hair, piercings, and tattoos. Absolutely no one consented to seeing these when looking at me, and many are offended by them. But most anyone who told me it was wrong of me to be seen in public for being fat, sassy, and alternatively dressed would be called assholes or pricks, and certainly ignored.

Unless she's got him on his knees twisting his nipples, they're not doing anything wrong or indecent. A leash is rather tame compared to things you can buy in Hot Topic. And frankly, anything offensive a nilla thinks about it is only the product of their own filthy little mind ~.^

Dear OP,

unless you plan on doing anything people pay to see in a shady theatre, or it is actually illegal in your area (and do check first, I'm sure the sheriff's office would love to field your question :D), it's only an accessory with meanings known only to you and you can dress however you please. The important thing is simply to make sure your actions while on the lead are vanilla.





AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 3:59:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

People will always use things against you Aqua - that sounds pretty negative I know - but be that BDSM, or your job, or the fact you like RPGs.  If someone wants to take your children away from you, they will find a door.  The reason D/s or BDSM is seen as bizarre or 'out-there' as a concept is because even we, who are 'in it' - seperate it from what is seen as 'normality'.  My point is, to me, it IS what is normal.  Making is 'non threatening' only makes it seem more different from my opinion.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
That isn't the problem really. The problem is that if someone, trying act on my interest, calls the police on Valyraen during a scene they are required to arrest him and possibly me no matter what. The problem is that because of society's views on BDSM, children can be taken away from loving parents. That isn't going to change until people realize that, like homosexuals, there are quite a few of us and we aren't all that different from them.
 
I don't believe we make this different from normal. It is different from what your average person wants. We make up a minority, which is perfectly fine with me. There are a lot more people doing this then what society would like to think, but we still aren't the majority.
 
It doesn't make effort to make this non-threatening. It just means I am a little more courteous to how other people feel about it. A lot of people have a lot of mistaken views on what we do. I have found that my way of going about it actually helps correct those views, as it allows people to see that I'm a normal, unabused, friendly if snarky woman who prefers to live this life instead of a life where I have equal power in my relationship.
 



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 4:25:51 PM)

I guess I just don't see BDSM as a minority thing.  Even those that are seen as 'vanilla' are in BDSM relationships of some type or another.  I don;t see BDSM as a relationship or a lifestyle or anything more special or more communicative or more anything - or less anything.  Children are removed from loving parents because people want to destroy anything that they can't relate to and your description of yourself in no way will alter their perceptions anyway.  You will do something to piss someone off or offend them.  You can't stop that unless you bow and scrape to everyone elses whims and even then that is impossible in a large setting with more than a handful of people.
 
I dont want you to think that I am saying you are lying, Aqua, but I do know that what I am about to say may come across as I am.  I even read it and went, wow, if I didnt know me, I would think, what a bitch.  But basically, I want to be truthful.  And if that means I wear a collar and leash in a public setting, that is what I will do.  I am not going to hide wearing it in case I 'offend' someone.  I am not going to lie and say that I don't wear a leash just in case someone might take my children away.  I am not going to try and make BDSM look 'non-threatening' I just live how I live and people make their own decision if they see its threatening or not. Living to others morals and in case I offend them and not being true to myself and my belief, orientation, spirituality and sexuality to me - would be lying.
 
Maybe I am just luckier than you that I dont live in the US and not judged by such fierce morality and morals.  I swear, people say that Brits are stuck up and old fashioned - yet in the UK, there isn't anywhere near as much 'shock' as there seems to occur in the US. 
 
Peace
the.dark.



Politesub53 -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 4:36:15 PM)

To be fair out in the smaller cities and towns there would probably be as much shock in both Countries. i feel You could get away with it in Parts of new York London and LA. San Fancisco. Generally though you would still get some nods of disaproval outside of the big cities. As i said earlier, there are far worse things to be seen than someone on a leash.
[;)]



AquaticSub -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 4:37:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I guess I just don't see BDSM as a minority thing.  Even those that are seen as 'vanilla' are in BDSM relationships of some type or another.  I don;t see BDSM as a relationship or a lifestyle or anything more special or more communicative or more anything - or less anything.  Children are removed from loving parents because people want to destroy anything that they can't relate to and your description of yourself in no way will alter their perceptions anyway.  You will do something to piss someone off or offend them.  You can't stop that unless you bow and scrape to everyone elses whims and even then that is impossible in a large setting with more than a handful of people.
 

BDSM is not, in any way, more special or less anything. I have said that many times. But there is a difference: People with a simple power exchange that they aren't even aware of in their relationship don't flog each other, make contacts, do toliet service... let's be honest a lot of the sexual things that get discussed here. It isn't the majority or this would be a website catering to vanilla folk.

As far taking children away, children can't be taken away when nothing violates the law. Ignoring corruption in the system and bribed officals, if the law does not think you are unfit they will not be removed. Right now the laws on BSDM are iffy and I don't think that is going to change until more people realize we are just the same as them. We aren't sex-crazed rude assholes.
quote:


 
I dont want you to think that I am saying you are lying, Aqua, but I do know that what I am about to say may come across as I am.  I even read it and went, wow, if I didnt know me, I would think, what a bitch.  But basically, I want to be truthful.  And if that means I wear a collar and leash in a public setting, that is what I will do.  I am not going to hide wearing it in case I 'offend' someone.  I am not going to lie and say that I don't wear a leash just in case someone might take my children away.  I am not going to try and make BDSM look 'non-threatening' I just live how I live and people make their own decision if they see its threatening or not. Living to others morals and in case I offend them and not being true to myself and my belief, orientation, spirituality and sexuality to me - would be lying.

I don't view it as living to anyone else's morals. There is a very large difference between living your life to suit others and simply making a few concessions for sake of politeness to other people when you go to the mall. 
 
quote:


Maybe I am just luckier than you that I dont live in the US and not judged by such fierce morality and morals.  I swear, people say that Brits are stuck up and old fashioned - yet in the UK, there isn't anywhere near as much 'shock' as there seems to occur in the US. 
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
I would say you might be right. When I was young and at camp a friend was sent a European magazine by his father from the UK (can't remember which country the magazine was from but his father bought it in the UK). It was taken away from him because it had nudity. Progress is slow here and I, personally, am not willing to do anything that might jeopardize it by moving too quickly. If you jump too far ahead of a cause you can get backlash.

For now, in North Carolina, collar and cuffs is enough. Perhaps later I will able to walk leashed but if not oh well. I am incredibly open about my d/s relationship with those who care to listen and I've found that is the best way to do it here.

Edited for a buncha typos. I blame it on getting ready for a party where I will be walking around leashed! [:D]



RCdc -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 4:41:34 PM)

Well, I have lived in the City, and I have lived in rural cornwall and devon.  Its not all about peoples reactions - Aqua and many here have far more problems in the states than we do in the UK polite.  The laws in the states are far more strict than over here.  Its far easier for Aqua to have problems than us... fundemental christianity and the whole laws over there are far more judgemental than we have.
 
Peace
the.dark.



Politesub53 -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 4:55:05 PM)

i agree with that, having spent the last few summers in the Southern States. All i am saying is this, in some places, it wont be seen as unacceptable behaviour. i think the OP could well have problems in his location though.
[;)]



LadyPact -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 6:10:37 PM)

(Using fast reply)
 
You guys have all of the fun when I work weekends.  <Laughs>
 
I didn't read all of the replies, but I don't see a thing wrong with a collar and leash for a BDSM club or private party.  If there are none of those in your area, or any locals groups, My first vote to plunge into the public idea would be Halloween.  Gee, that's only three months away.  Let's go back to the club idea.  <Laughs>
 
No matter where you are, there is always a possibility, if you want it bad enough.  Maybe a day/overnight trip is in order.  Speaking from the perspective of someone who does have to do a bit of traveling to attend certain clubs and events, I honestly believe it's worth it just for the fun of it. 



MissOchistic -> RE: public leash (7/1/2007 8:46:59 PM)

I fail to see how hiding BDSM from the world will make people think it is more acceptable.

It is precisely by being loud and obnoxious that formerly taboo and even illegal things have come to be mainstream. People are even condemned now sometimes to be against them.

I'm not saying that he should be obnoxious at the mall; I'm just saying that being courteous is a very bad way to make it more acceptable, if that's what you're thinking. Well behaved women rarely make history ~.^




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