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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/13/2005 10:01:47 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Can you take that even further, and say someone will never know what real dominance is like unless they've dominated someone who wasn't a submissive?

That is interesting. I dominate someone who is not a submissive in my primary relationship.

And for the record, he and I have never had a safeword, though we have discussed limits and we have over come many of them, both his and mine.

- LA

I also dominate someone who is not submissive in my primary relationship as well. We've also never had a safeword.

The only drawback of having a 'non-submissive' primary partner is when the subs come out and complain that another femdom was "wasted" on a "vanilla guy."!

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 21

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 1:44:40 AM

shay

Posts: 63
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

i'm not sure this is going to make a lot of sense, it's 4:30am here but i wanted to try to hit this from my point of view.

i have safewords that i can and will use when bottoming to Tops. i use them rarely because i like to bottom. The times i DO use them though are when whatever the Top is doing stops being "pleasure through pain" and becomes "PAIN". Most genterally, His or Her desire is to shoot me into subspace just as my desire is to GET there.

i use my "yellow" to let Him or Her know that what They are doing just isn't getting me there. In six years, i have used red once. That rare time i did use my "red" it was because i wanted the session to end, it was obvious i was NOT going to get there, and the pain was just too much to tolerate. That one time was enough to make me realize i hadn't gotten to know the Top well enough and i should have never bottomed to Him. (Just another hard lesson learned.)

Please understand that during these times i have been "bottoming" and not submitting PAST the time frame of the scene. Once owned, i would not expect to need safewords, as i will have known the One topping me long enough to NOT need them (if said Top was the One who owned me). After all, what is the point in having limits, if you are not allowed safewords?

respectfully posted from my point of view~
shay

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 22

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 2:39:46 AM

wetsub000

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

Well I think enough has been said about the safeword topic. I want to know what you think the difference is between getting to know a person and discussing limits. Isn't discussing limits just a targetted way of getting to know someone, part of the process. For me part of getting to a trust level with someone can involve discussing their and my viewpoints on certain activities.

As for what mental state one needs to be in to use a safeword? Alive perhaps. Like most people who seem to have posted so far I've yet to use a safeword, but I have got to a point where I've thought about using it and at that stage the Dom I'm with has noticed my discomfort and either changed the pace or moved onto a different activity, because (believe it or not) we've managed to build up some knowledge and trust with one another discussing those terrible checklists among other things.

Are checklists and safewords a panacea or guarantee of a good play - definitely not, but I don't think I'm any more or less submissive when I play with someone I've discussed checklists and safewords with than with those I've played with without the benefit of either.

I wonder what it is about your post that has egged me on to reply, I usually find what you have to say most sensible. Maybe it's that 'real' word. Like a red rag to a bull.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 23

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 4:14:38 AM

Atavist

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

To me the answer is pretty clear. Whether or not a safe word is appropriate depends on how close two individuals are in terms of their knowledge/understanding of each other and yes, the level of caring in the relationship.

A safeword would make sense if two people were casually scening, it might not make sense for a couple who've been together for a long time, or have some very deep bond.

When that point intimacy/trust is reached no doubt varies with each individual or couple. Mac and Beth clearly have a very loving, LT relationship.

I like simple, the best safe word for me is "stop". Doesn't take alot of thinking or remembering secret code words. Its instinctive and I would trust that my partner would only utter this word if it was meant.

As with many things, its different for everyone and whats right is what works for you.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 5:15:36 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Can you take that even further, and say someone will never know what real dominance is like unless they've dominated someone who wasn't a submissive?

That is interesting. I dominate someone who is not a submissive in my primary relationship.

And for the record, he and I have never had a safeword, though we have discussed limits and we have over come many of them, both his and mine.

- LA

I also dominate someone who is not submissive in my primary relationship as well. We've also never had a safeword.

The only drawback of having a 'non-submissive' primary partner is when the subs come out and complain that another femdom was "wasted" on a "vanilla guy."!

Akasha

Yeah, I get that one too. But I make no excuses for my choices. Just because I'm a dominant woman doesn't mean I'm automatically attracted to submissive men. In fact, I'm not attracted to most of them but that is a whole other topic!

But to bring this back on topic, I'd like to address something else you said in an earlier post about how "a safeword (in intense, personal relationships) is almost a false sense of security". I thought about this last night and I agree with you. I would add that even though I give new play partners safewords, I don't rely on them to let me know when it is enough. Because, in my experience, many bottoms want to be brave, show how much they can take, make me proud, etc and often will take more then they could/should handle.

I will do things like ask neutral questions such as "how are you feeling?" now and then. Sometimes it can even add to the play, for example, if they answer "uncomfortable" I can grin and say "good, I like you uncomfortable for me". And if they say "I'm alright but I don't know how much more I can take", I'm usually not going to take this as an invitation to push them over the edge. I may continue what I was doing for a short while and say something like "well you have 5 more minutes to go" or "20 more lashes to go" so that they can find ways to cope, knowing that an end is near.

I don't see a bottom communicating that they are overwhelmed as them controlling the scene. I see it as feedback, which in my opinion is a very good thing.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 25

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 7:17:14 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Can you take that even further, and say someone will never know what real dominance is like unless they've dominated someone who wasn't a submissive? You mentioned that limits/safewords allows the sub to set the boundaries a little or turns it into a bit of a 'service provider'...

Well, a submissive, by the nature of being submissive, enjoys the act of submission as a whole.

Akasha,
That is a very interesting point. I always felt a submissive needed to be a strong person. Inner strength was needed to surrender to their submissive desires especially for male submissives because of society's "standards". The strength of the resulting relationship is a function of one's surrender and the other's assumption of power. From that perspective all submissives must have control or dominance of themselves and their life. Their "surrender" of that power and dominance, the act of submission, is what I would define as the "gift" that they present their Master/Mistress.

But I wouldn't say that the resulting relationship is one of service provider / allower. The surrender aspect is unconditional. Although relationship goals are discussed the slave should know that ultimately it's the Master/Mistress with the final determination. It is exactly for that reason that safe words or limits can't be in place. It would be a condition to surrender. In my mind the distinction is clear. You made an excellent point for this discussion - Thanks!

quote:

sub4hire:Does a sub control the scene by her or his limits and safeword?

The sub controls the scene and the scene facilitator. There is no surrender or submission involved whatsoever. I'd also challenge that a sub with safe words/limits doesn't experience the same sensations as one who has safe-words because, as I've stated, it requires some part of the brain to maintain that analytical process. If that process is exchanged for trust the sub is "free" to feel and use the sensations to their full potential.

In another thread Proud sub I believe mentioned the need for increasing pain in her sessions. I think this is consistent with a deeper trust and is more a function of her releasing more of herself to her Master/husband versus a need for more sensation. If she was considering her safe-word I doubt the relationship would progress so well.

quote:

Ms Incognito: I'm thinkin' that maybe if beth had a safe word she might not have gotten to the point that she pulled a muscle?

The "funny" thing about that incident is that it occurred during me "teasing" beth. she had to strain and pull her body away from what she was bound to in order to feel the flogger I was swirling behind her. It happened instantly, like a popped guitar string, with no prior warning to either of us. But the scream left no doubt that it wasn't pleasure she was experiencing.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 26

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 10:28:02 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The sub controls the scene and the scene facilitator. There is no surrender or submission involved whatsoever. I'd also challenge that a sub with safe words/limits doesn't experience the same sensations as one who has safe-words because, as I've stated, it requires some part of the brain to maintain that analytical process. If that process is exchanged for trust the sub is "free" to feel and use the sensations to their full potential.

In another thread Proud sub I believe mentioned the need for increasing pain in her sessions. I think this is consistent with a deeper trust and is more a function of her releasing more of herself to her Master/husband versus a need for more sensation. If she was considering her safe-word I doubt the relationship would progress so well.

I totally disagree with this. Our boy does not control the scene just because we have discussed limits, and he does not control the scene simply because he has access to a safeword. Once again, a safeword is a safety net that he can use should we miss a sign that we should have seen (and thus far, he has never needed to use it because we have seen the signs). A safeword is not something that should be used lightly, and he (and all other boys that we have played with) have known that. He is much much much more likely to say "ow, that's not a good hurt" than to use his safeword. He gives feedback as we ask for it (like what LA does) but he does still have that emergency brake/safety net. If I can get him in here, you can ask him how he feels about it, but he is definitely NOT in charge of the scene simply because we have allowed him to have a safe-word. Someone else said that the safe-word is a call for more communication, and they were right. Should one of our playmates (long term or short term) ever use a safe-word, we will have to talk about why they used it, what they were feeling, and why they didn't answer appropriately when we were asking how they were doing before they used the safeword (we check them regularly - if they are getting to the point of safewording, they should tell us something is up before that point). I mentioned earlier that there may be consequences for using the safeword, depending on why they used it. Everyone that we play with knows that in advance. They know that they have to use it responsibly.

As for the rest of what I quoted from you - our boy has a safeword, but our relationship is still progressing quite well, and has been for the last 18 months. I don't know that he needs the pain, but he definately enjoys it, and he accepts more each time we doll it out ... even with a safeword. Safewords are not the end-all, be-all for safety, but it is another, totally valid, option. Just because a submissive has a safeword, that does not mean that he/she is in charge of the scene. Just because a submissive has a safeword, that does not mean that a relationship between them and their Dominant can't progress as well or as deeply as a relationship without one.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 10:55:56 AM

pygmalionsub

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

I hate the word "limits" i prefer it more along the lines of "stuff that i'm just not interested in exploring" Will there come a time where those "limits" may change but i know me and i know that at this point in time, if a Dom was to push those limits that it would be emotionally damage me, and any Dom that i engage in play with needs to know this.

As far as safe words, i have one, i've only had to use it once. During a scene i'm not constantly wondering if i'm ready to use my safe word or not. Because the word is only used for a situation that needs to stop quickly. If your in extreme pain, that 30 seconds or whatever it takes for the Dom to realise that you are in pain can seem like an eternity. The time i did use my safe word, it was not because i was in physical pain, but i had drifted in a bad place mentally. I couldn't get into the scene, and i really just wanted to stop and deal with the problem. I safe worded and we talked about it. If he wanted he could have said "oh well, lets keep going"

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 28

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 11:29:33 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Merc, you know me. i completely agree with you = ). i have no limits other then what Master sets for himself. The things he will not engage in, i have no safeword. My safeword is the same as yours "i see bone!" LOLOLOL. If something has gone awry, like last night, i just need to speak up. Like last night, i was suspended upside down and for some reason the rope on one of my ankles was starting to cut off a nerve. (thanks to collarme, i was able to identify the sensation) The other ankle was perfectly fine, but for some reason my right foot wasnt. And i could feel the fire start to spread across my foot. i didnt need a safe word. He knew i was becoming distressed, he took the gag out asked what was wrong and promptly got me down.

i neednt a safeword, because i trust him with my well being. i trust him to know where i am "at" what i can handle, cant handle, what can be pushed, what cant be pushed. i Trust him to know when i can handle something that i dont even think i can handle. He knows where and when he can push, he knows when if he keeps going further i'll "break" He knows what i can endure and cant endure. He knows how much and for how long. He knows my body language, that signals to him that i can not endure any longer. He knows what will harm me. i trust him to not intentionally harm me.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 29

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 12:24:52 PM

MemphisDsCouple

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline

First:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

People who disagree usually admit ultimately that they have never been with someone they have trusted enough not to have negotiated limits or a safe word. Until you do - I'd argue you'll never know what real submission feel like, or real dominance for that matter.

And then:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SecretDomme

It's interesting that you use that popular word "real" in your statements about "real submission" and "real dominance". Perhaps you should define what constitutes "real".

Not to speak for Mercnbeth, rather simply to offer an answer to the question posed: Ok. Webster's Online informs us (see note below):

2 a : not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, or apparent : GENUINE <real gold>; also : being precisely what the name implies <a real professional> b (1) : occurring in fact <a story of real life>

It seems to me that the word "illusory" (or illusion) is particularly appropriate to understand:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SecretDomme

what constitutes "real".

For emphasis, I repeat: I speak for myself. I do not pretend to speak for anyone else!

And I say:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I know in this age of instant gratification you want to meet and jump right into it. Having a check list of activities and agreeing to a safe word makes that happen.

I have never seen an instance in which this was *not* the illusion of dominance and submission. I have never seen an instance of this being "real" dominance or submission. Frankly, I don't think it can be. But hey, never say never. So I keep an open mind.

And I say:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

It would be better would be to take the time to know and trust a person well enough to not need it but most people don't want to take that time.

This might be "real". This has the potential to transcend illusion.

Note: Webster's first definition of "real" concerns property, ie., "real" property. Land, a house, etc. I think this is not the definition/usage we're looking for.

Postscript:

You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 12:39:43 PM

Tempestspet

Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

"Obviously when you are not with your Master their isn't the same level of trust. That's why you need a safe-word
right? "

Yes.

"So when with the other - are you in a different head space? Is there a part of you doing deeper analysis of what you
are feeling?"

Yes, I'm in a diferent head space. I've never really fully dropped in what people call subspace with anyone other
than Master. This is because trust is huge for me, as I'm sure with many others.

" If that is going on, are you submitting or "allowing"; up to or until you don't want to allow it any more?"

I've never played with another, either, when Master wasn't right there. He enjoys watching it. There has been only one instance where I asked to play with someone, and it was because I wanted to play to try the violet wand. (loved it, btw...smiles) Beyond that, others have asked Master to play with me, or he's wanted to watch and so I was played with.... I never felt, nor do I believe I was put in charge of those scenes. I was still submitting to my Master, just not directly at his hand.

"your Master providing you a safe word in this case is really Him assigning His authority to you isn't he? Ultimately
you are "dom-ing" over the scene with that authority."

Yes, in that respect it would be. Because to me, he's given me authority over his property, my body and mind...., to watch over for him. I recall there was once he was not directly standing "in" on the scene... he was in the room, but working on someone else. So at that time I was given authority over the scene.
And yes, it would be me in an indirect way...domming over that scene, as I held the ultimate power of when it stopped. This has never been the case when I am with Master though. With him, I guess I don't really have a safe word, and I phrase it this way because it just is... I never really thought of it that way. lol... this is interesting for me, right now... thank you.

" My argument is that remove the fact that you have a Master and you represent all those who scene or have
relationship where safe-words often come into play. Or am I missing something?"

You aren't missing anything, and remove the fact that I have a Master, and thinking in those terms... yes I'm ultimately in charge, there's no one else looking out for my well being. That knows me well enough to do this. That's pretty scary, actually, to think of handing that kind of power...no safe word... over to someone who hasn't a clue when you have reached the end of what you can take, went beyond that... or your getting hurt "for real".

"I thank you and the others who have addressed the "safe-word" aspect of the post. I was hoping to understand more
about "HOW" they work. I know I can never feel what beth, or any other hard-wired submissive person feels."

The how, to me, is that a safe word provides for when something has gone horribly wrong. The sub has gotten hurt, or something has happened that makes the scene HAVE to stop. This is not howveer covered by the I'm tired of this now... I just wanna stop thing....

" I've debated more often on the submissive side of the argument AGAINST safe words because it puts all the onus on the
sub. A dom can blame any accident on the fact that the sub didn't safe-word. It porvides a GREAT escape clause for
abusive doms."

And this is, I would say, the primary thing keeping me from dropping into subspace with anyone other than my Dom... I recall one other time I got floaty.. Master was right there, and I ... and more importantly Master... trusted this other dom.

" I'd like to focus on how a person can "let themselves go into sub space" and still consider a safe-word valid. Is a
safe-word a short cut to establishing a relationship built on trust? Or I'd be willing to hear argument to the opinion that
safe-word and limit maintaining submissives aren't the person allowing the dom to perform a service for/on them. I just
hope that doesn't get into a discussion of topping from below."

If the sub is in subspace, they are not able to make that safe call. They really aren't in their "right" mind at the time.. It very much like being high, or a lil drunk...
On it being a short.... perhaps. That's certainly likely in some cases, not all... maybe many cases though.

Tempest's pet
jennifer

edited to add the quotation marks....

< Message edited by Tempestspet -- 6/14/2005 12:41:08 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 31

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 1:18:56 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Can you take that even further, and say someone will never know what real dominance is like unless they've dominated someone who wasn't a submissive? You mentioned that limits/safewords allows the sub to set the boundaries a little or turns it into a bit of a 'service provider'...

Well, a submissive, by the nature of being submissive, enjoys the act of submission as a whole.

Akasha,
That is a very interesting point. I always felt a submissive needed to be a strong person. Inner strength was needed to surrender to their submissive desires especially for male submissives because of society's "standards". The strength of the resulting relationship is a function of one's surrender and the other's assumption of power. From that perspective all submissives must have control or dominance of themselves and their life. Their "surrender" of that power and dominance, the act of submission, is what I would define as the "gift" that they present their Master/Mistress.

But I wouldn't say that the resulting relationship is one of service provider / allower. The surrender aspect is unconditional. Although relationship goals are discussed the slave should know that ultimately it's the Master/Mistress with the final determination. It is exactly for that reason that safe words or limits can't be in place. It would be a condition to surrender. In my mind the distinction is clear. You made an excellent point for this discussion - Thanks!

Yes, true, but ultimately the submissive made the choice to submit -- which is really the only choice that says a relationship is going to happen or not. For example, someone who is a submissive actively seeks to submit -- if she is not submitting to you, she will want to submit to someone else. She has chosen you to be her service provider -- to fulfill a need SHE has.

You said in your first post:
To me, anyone who "submits" but has limits or requires a safe-word is not submitting to anything other than the sensations they are "allowing" another to do to them.

Hypothetically I could also say -- "To me, any submissive that chooses to submit to someone instead of someone else is making a choice, and therefore is not submissive. A person who does not make the choice to submit, but submits to someone who requests/desires their submission is offering an act of conscious surrender. In addition, that person would not actively seek another person to give his/her submission to, therefore, this dominant is more empowered than the dominant that provides a service to submissives who seek it."

It can get tricky, can't it?

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 1:32:53 PM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

And surely if someone is told to use a safe word if needed, they are submitting to their Dom/mes wishes.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 33

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 2:43:50 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

You're dead on Oumae. Like I always say, this has nothing to do with acts or protocol. It's all about the perception of who's got the upper hand.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Oumae)

Post #: 34

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 2:53:45 PM

pygmalionsub

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

that was great Oumae.

Its better to be safe then sorry. Its better to have a safeword/signal and never use it , then not and have a Dom miss the signs that something is wrong.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 35

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 3:47:07 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pygmalionsub

that was great Oumae.

Its better to be safe then sorry. Its better to have a safeword/signal and never use it , then not and have a Dom miss the signs that something is wrong.

It's not an all or nothing deal here. I don't have a safe word with the Owner, but I still let him know signs that he can't be aware of or might miss.

Sigh, trusting a "safe word" is just such a flimsy thing.

(in reply to pygmalionsub)

Post #: 36

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 4:28:39 PM

sanita

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Akasha,
I thank you and the others who have addressed the "safe-word" aspect of the post. I was hoping to understand more about "HOW" they work. I know I can never feel what beth, or any other hard-wired submissive person feels. I've debated more often on the submissive side of the argument AGAINST safe words because it puts all the onus on the sub. A dom can blame any accident on the fact that the sub didn't safe-word. It porvides a GREAT escape clause for abusive doms.

I'd like to focus on how a person can "let themselves go into sub space" and still consider a safe-word valid. Is a safe-word a short cut to establishing a relationship built on trust? Or I'd be willing to hear argument to the opinion that safe-word and limit maintaining submissives aren't the person allowing the dom to perform a service for/on them. I just hope that doesn't get into a discussion of topping from below.

actually, in my case, the safeword is more for Master's peace of mind than mine. when we first met around 6 years ago, i was a virgin with some experience in D/s, but more book learned, than street wise. we had an on and off relationship until last October.

He is a Sadist. i can remember so many times that He stopped play, because He was concerned with going too far. [yarrghhhhhhh!!!!] i was inexperienced with pain, yet am a "hard-wired" sub as you put it. in my eagerness to please, my drive to submit, i wanted to be able to handle whatever He gave me. He gave me a safeword to use.

now, He is still careful about how much He dishes out to me, but now He can find His space. He is consistently pleasantly suprised by what i can take. and the only reason i can take it, is because of His pleasure. and He knows that if i cannot handle it, i will let Him know. considering He likes struggles and crying, and pleading... the safeword is probably what i would need to use to get through.

does it alter my submissive state, because it is there? no. i used it once, 5 1/2 years ago, when skin He did not see was tearing. i couldn't handle it, and somewhere in there the word popped into my head.

i don't think about my safeword. i know my Master will not harm me, and while years ago we discussed limits, they were pretty much compatible. however, i think the fact that it is there gives my Master the security to take me further each time.

We communicate, he trusts me, and i trust Him. He reads me very well.

but really, neither one of us knows just how much i can take, yet. now He is free to find out. and this does not dilute my submission. i am not allowing Him. in fact, i start to fly so quickly with Him, that chosing to allow anything is a very difficult idea to grasp.

does having a ceiling stunt a person's growth? how many times does anyone think about their ceiling on an average day? does having a ceiling make someone less of a naturalist? i don't think so.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 37

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 6:00:10 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pygmalionsub

that was great Oumae.

Its better to be safe then sorry. Its better to have a safeword/signal and never use it , then not and have a Dom miss the signs that something is wrong.

I believe you misinterpreted what Oumae said.

She simply stated that if a Dominant told a submissive to use a safeword if needed, then using a safeword when needed was the obedient thing to do. I don't think she was debating whether or not safewords were a good thing.

Now Oumae may think they are a good thing, and she might think they are, as Em puts it, a "flimsy" thing. But her post was more pointing out, at least the way I interpreted it, that it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks of safewords because when it comes to a particular dynamic between a Dominant and a submissive, submission is a great deal about obeying the rules.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to pygmalionsub)

Post #: 38

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 7:04:19 PM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline

I'll address safe words first.

The Dom that I've been involved with for sometime gave me a safeword in the beginning of our relationship. In the normal course of events I've had occasion to use it two or three times. However, I felt so bad when I DID use it that,upon reflection, I came to understand that, for me, using it hurt me more than anything he was doing at that time. In fact, the last time I was anywhere near needing to use the safe word I chose, instead, to say something else so that things could be left up to his discretion. Grrr!!! And I STILL felt bad about saying what I did so I had to do a lot of hard thinking about it.

What I came to realize was that I trust him implicitly as far as our play goes and had for a very long time. In fact, when I'm in that headspace I trust his judgement about where I'm at more than I do my own so a safeword was honestly superfluous. In the end I decided to voluntarily give up the safe word, which, pleased him to no end.

I can't and won't speak for him, however, I believe that the journey taken to get to the point of making the decision that I did was a very important one for both of us and wouldn't have meant near as much it does today had I started out without a safeword.

One side note here. I have fibromyalgia and a couple of other things that make it necessary for me to alert him when I need position changes and the like, which I do NOT consider to be in the same category as using a safe word. In fact, I see it as my responsibility to let him know when something is getting distracting/painful enough that I can't focus on what he's doing.

Now on to the limits thing. I'm a self aware adult that knows precisely where most of my "hot buttons" are. I know what I can take pschycologically and what I can't. Being a responsible adult means that I have the duty to share those with any partner I choose to engage with.
Why? Because I honestly don't think that it's the fantasy of Dom/mes to have a play session end in the emergency room and/or psyche ward.

That said, I think that anyone that presumes that a submissive/slave is actively thinking about which hard limits a Dom/me might go after during play is giving us a lot more credit for being able to connect two brain cells at that moment than they should. Quite frankly, once I reach a certain head space, I'm going to do whatever is asked,demanded or commanded for me to do. That's where the trust comes in because at that moment I don't have the mental faculties to make ANY decision much less one that can rebound back to bite me in the butt later. At that time it's up to my partner to make those decisions based on his prior knowledge of my own assessments of my capabilities as well as his own judgements.

One last point I feel compelled to make here that's been touched on only lightly. Dom/mes have limits as well as subs. It's been my experience that in the opening negotiations/discussions both sides of the slash air theirs. And yes, I know subs/slaves that have a particular fetish/kink that either doesn't appeal to the Dom/me or is a place they don't want to go for their own reasons. That's when both sides determine whether or not the limit is a deal breaker or not.

Heck, limits, both soft and hard, shift and change as both sides learn, grow and experience. I'm not the same sub with the same limits that I was five, four, three, two or even a year ago.

(in reply to sanita)

Post #: 39

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/14/2005 7:16:57 PM

sanita

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm not the same sub with the same limits that I was five, four, three, two or even a year ago.

though you are neither more nor less of a sub now, than you were back then. just different.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 40

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