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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/22/2005 9:55:20 AM

Kinkypupper

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I agree that in a settled in relationship that safewords are not needed. As both partners have learned about the other to such an extent that it is totally not needed.

However in a beginning relationship a safeword or the "green,yellow,red" comments allow feed back from the sub to the Dom as to what her physical limits are.

This allows learning and growth.

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/22/2005 6:45:49 PM

sudja

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submission is more than scening.

Since you and your person have a contract, which I assume includes some form of limit, your query seems a bit disengenuous.

Even if it is not written I suspect the two of you have basic agreements that constitute limits. You won't kill her, for example.

I have a safe word, but only because my Mistress required me to choose one because She worried that I would never say a word if I were in physical (or emotional) danger.

She's probably right.

Otherwise, my limits are Her limits, and that's good enough for me.

sudja

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

It's always fascinated me that people claim they are a submissive or even a slave to another yet they are the first to espouse their "limits", the benefits of establishing limits, and having 'safe words'. To me, anyone who "submits" but has limits or requires a safe-word is not submitting to anything other than the sensations they are "allowing" another to do to them. If you can't trust someone enough to scene with them without specifics or a safe-word you are just allowing - not submitting. The "dom/me" is in actuality a service provider. Don't get me wrong - sensations are VERY FUN! And being a "service provider" does come with benefits especially if the services you are providing fulfill your needs. Being a "service provider" to an "allower" is a great way to get experience to use when you find a person who trust you enough to just "let go".

I'd like to know the answer to the same question I ask any when I have this argument in person. When you have a safe-word, what part of your brain or mental state do you allocate to determine if you need to use it? Tell me, whatever part/place that is, why isn't that representative of a part of you that you aren't giving, aren't feeling, and are holding back? And if you have a "master" how is it that he rationalizes this part of you that isn't his/hers?

I know in this age of instant gratification you want to meet and jump right into it. Having a check list of activities and agreeing to a safe word makes that happen. It would be better would be to take the time to know and trust a person well enough to not need it but most people don't want to take that time.

People who disagree usually admit ultimately that they have never been with someone they have trusted enough not to have negotiated limits or a safe word. Until you do - I'd argue you'll never know what real submission feel like, or real dominance for that matter.

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/22/2005 7:33:08 PM

Elegant

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posting my own statement before reading comments from others...to keep my head clear

Master Archer and I DO have and use 'safewords' but not in the same method they are often utilized.

To us, a safeword is a signal that I need to talk to him for some reason. Why do we do this? When I am being used I tend to lose my ability to speak coherently and quickly. (Master says I speak in tongues..grin).

Early on he conditioned me to utter a safeword as a means to instigate communication. It is a signal to him that I need to speak to him about a concern I have at that moment. Such concerns have included many things: Fingers going numb, getting bit by a fireant while tied up, singletail slipping and hitting my lower spine, loss of a contact lens, loosing focus because of some asshole in the local dungeon is being obnoxious, and general 'something is not right' comments that he would have no way of knowing.

now going to read other comments including one from Master Archer

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/23/2005 10:33:10 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Since you and your person have a contract, which I assume includes some form of limit, your query seems a bit disengenuous.

Yes & no.

There are no limits addressed in the contract. But there was enough time and discussion between us that they weren't needed. You shouldn't misunderstand. My statement that a slave can have to limits does not mean that the relationship has no limits. By definition those limits are at the sole discretion of the Master. They are also not fixed. Trust is required. The submissive becoming a slave has to surrender to that relationship concept. Lacking complete and total trust makes that idea impossible. Expecting to achieve it quickly or by only having on-line or phone contact shouldn't generate the required confidence. The short-cut is a safe-word, and limits. Submission becomes conditional. "Conditional" surrender, under my definition that would mean maintaining a safe-word", did not achieve for us the sense of total commitment that we BOTH desired.

People seem to associate safe-words and limits only going in one direction, from the sub to the Dom. It is that idea that I think is totally opposite to the fundamental idea of the lifestyle. The "joke" of a masochist saying to a sadist; "BEAT ME - BEAT ME" and the sadist reply of "NO!!"; is an example of the point. "No" is the proper answer. The problem with the "NO" answer is that as a result everyone is frustrated. The only way for everyone to maintain their role identity and for both to be satisfied is for the foundation to remain but the building blocks determined by the Master. "Beat you?"; sure - but it will be when and with what I want it to be and only end when I say it will end. Now that implies that beating someone over the head with a 2x4 may be allowed. In theory I guess that is accurate, but it doesn't consider another essential element. No Master would kill or terminally injure something so special and precious as his slave. Anyone going through the process knows how rare a slave is. A slave is a treasure. That's the other side of trust. I wouldn't suggest surrendering to a no-limits, no safe-word relationship until you were sure of that trust. Without it - Jeffrey Dahmar awaits.

Sure a person needs to have masochistic or sensation desires and seek out someone who can fulfill those desires. The "labels" applied are sub/dom. Generally and in broad strokes that describes the essential elements of the relationship. My guess is that 99.99% of people active in the lifestyle start like this. But once something more is goal, once the desire is to have a relationship built on this foundation but going into a deeper and more emotionally, mentally, even spiritually; fulfilling a deeper trust, a deeper commitment, a deeper surrender and responsibility is essential.

Putting it into a different context, a vanilla context; reaching adolescence you can have physical attraction, physical relationship with a number of partners. You set sexual limits of what they can do. That may extend into your young adulthood, where casual sex satisfies a basic need for both participants. When no partners are available there is self pleasure available. But most people want more. They want to go beyond the physical aspect of sex and seek someone to bond with emotionally for a more trusting, surrendering relationship. The label applied is "marriage". Until the advent of the "pre-nup" marriages had no safe-words, and no limits. The terms, "for better for worse" are part of that commitment. Basically both parties are surrendering to their responsibilities.

My image of a Master/slave relationship uses this same concept.

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 3:11:32 AM

mossy

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quote:

[image][/image]

There was much "protocol" in this thread. i hear out west is the "hub" of the bdsm scene so to speak. Surrender fully and completely to Your Master. In TPE the slave must give up all control. The slave must surrender mind, body, spirit and soul. That is not just out west but universal. You are saying with a safeword in "mind", the slave is not only controlling the scene but the Master, and him/herself, in mindset.
What happened to all the threads about: Master/slave make their own decisions about their own relationships? Freedom of choice? Everyone is different? Backgrounds vary?
a slave may have had an abusive past? In order to relax and enjoy bdsm a safeword must be in place, it is never thought about, but the safe feeling it offers allows the slave to feel at peace spiritually and sexually to let go totally. The slave's head is clear to fully relax and enjoy the pain and pleasure. One more question please. If the Person the slave has entrusted all the power to, is understanding, and knows the slave has surrendered? Is being in intense pain and wanting to stop, a bad thing? So i guess if a safeword interrupts flow/neg. safeword promotes flow/pos. electricity anyone?

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 3:15:46 AM

mossy

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitering"?

quote:

[image][/image]

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 3:16:35 AM

mossy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mossy

quote:

[image][/image]

There was much "protocol" in this thread. i hear out west is the "hub" of the bdsm scene so to speak. Surrender fully and completely to Your Master. In TPE the slave must give up all control. The slave must surrender mind, body, spirit and soul. That is not just out west but universal. You are saying with a safeword in "mind", the slave is not only controlling the scene but the Master, and him/herself, in mindset.
What happened to all the threads about: Master/slave make their own decisions about their own relationships? Freedom of choice? Everyone is different? Backgrounds vary?
a slave may have had an abusive past? In order to relax and enjoy bdsm a safeword must be in place, it is never thought about, but the safe feeling it offers allows the slave to feel at peace spiritually and sexually to let go totally. The slave's head is clear to fully relax and enjoy the pain and pleasure. One more question please. If the Person the slave has entrusted all the power to, is understanding, and knows the slave has surrendered? Is being in intense pain and wanting to stop, a bad thing? So i guess if a safeword interrupts flow/neg. safeword promotes flow/pos. electricity anyone?

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 5:34:27 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mossy
i hear out west is the "hub" of the bdsm scene so to speak.

Hmmm not sure what leads you to that conclusion. NYC certainly has its hub, Boston is waning but alive, DC is absolutely a hub.

And that's just in the US.

quote:

In order to relax and enjoy bdsm a safeword must be in place, it is never thought about, but the safe feeling it offers allows the slave to feel at peace spiritually and sexually to let go totally. The slave's head is clear to fully relax and enjoy the pain and pleasure.

That has nothing to do with a safeword for me. Personally if just a word did all that, I can't imagine their sense of self security being all that stable to begin with. It takes certain things to allow me to let go fully in scenes, a safeword not being among them.

As well, what does being able to let go in a scene have to do with being a slave? Not all M/s relationships engage in bdsm.

quote:

Is being in intense pain and wanting to stop, a bad thing?

Not at all. But safewords aren't about "hey I want it to stop" it's about "hey I NEED this to stop"

And in many relationships, it's not up to the slave to decide when what THEY want is going to happen.

quote:

So i guess if a safeword interrupts flow/neg. safeword promotes flow/pos. electricity anyone?

Not at all, one does not entail the other.

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 6:19:57 PM

zaynab

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i don't use a safe word because for me, that would be like playing a game.... and i'm not playing a game.

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/30/2005 11:28:50 PM

mossy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mossy
i hear out west is the "hub" of the bdsm scene so to speak.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm not sure what leads you to that conclusion. NYC certainly has its hub, Boston is waning but alive, DC is absolutely a hub.

And that's just in the US.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From what i was told....the latest bdsm information flows from California first. hub is all that i was refferring to. Just a word. Center of. Information was passed down. i was not told that it comes from ny or dc or boston. i think they were speaking of US. As i said....i hear....
The person that offered the information was from california?? i only know what i was told.
mossy...~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
quote:

In order to relax and enjoy bdsm a safeword must be in place, it is never thought about, but the safe feeling it offers allows the slave to feel at peace spiritually and sexually to let go totally. The slave's head is clear to fully relax and enjoy the pain and pleasure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That has nothing to do with a safeword for me. Personally if just a word did all that, I can't imagine their sense of self security being all that stable to begin with. It takes certain things to allow me to let go fully in scenes, a safeword not being among them.

As well, what does being able to let go in a scene have to do with being a slave? Not all M/s relationships engage in bdsm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who said all M/s relationships have bdsm? And what does letting go in a scene have to do with being a slave? Who said these things? Now let me see...my story was of a slave who worked through her abuse issues. Yet the safeword helped her to let go fully.
In the story, i do not recall her Master having issue with this. i do not believe stability and
self-security were ever an issue. i would really hate to think a safeword making someone relaxed completely would mean emotional instability. Yikes!!!
ok, glad i got that cleared up, (better call my therapist) oopps did i say that out loud???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
quote:

Is being in intense pain and wanting to stop, a bad thing?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not at all. But safewords aren't about "hey I want it to stop" it's about "hey I NEED this to stop"

And in many relationships, it's not up to the slave to decide when what THEY want is going to happen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
my sincere apologies,,,i used the wrong word again, yikes, need, need, need, when i close this post? i am going to put nipple clamps on and type i "need" this to stop/not i "want" this to stop ~~two hundred times. where is that auto fix slave when you need her.

it is sometimes not up to the slave to decide when what THEY want, is going to happen.
Yes... very, very true. Some slaves don't get a time when what THEY want to happen, happens at all.
~~~~~~~~~~quote:

So i guess if a safeword interrupts flow/neg. safeword promotes flow/pos. electricity anyone?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not at all, one does not entail the other.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Entail- to bring as a necessary consequence

necessary consequence.. has nothing to do with what i meant, for neither one nor the other can be a given. me and my simple little mind, the initial discussion was "distraction"/generally put...the monitoring....that goes on inside (huge assumption) as far as the use of safewords.

if when using a safeword it interrupts the mental,emotional,spiritual,physical flow then it would be a negative thing. Perhaps.
If when using a safeword it does not interrupt the flow, then it would not be considered negative. Perhaps.
Now with every thought and word carefully in place, please remember this all who may read my insignifigant little post, from a simple mind. i offer no incredible wisdom when i share, i offer no advice ever for i am not qualified to give. i am new, my posts are new, i am doing my best to speak my mind and learn as i go. i am not new to the scene, i have some real life experience to share. i might even take a leap of faith here, and say i may have something to offer someday, that may make a difference to someone. Maybe not. Oh yes i do have trouble with my wording sometimes, i will work on that:)

Thank You Kindly,,,

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