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why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 7:59:26 PM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
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I've been pondering something.
Maybe I have been retarded enough to miss the answer to this on other threads.
PLEASE do not rehash the slave vs sub topic, tis really NOT what I seek.

Please do not make something more of my question than it reads…

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T.
I’ll use the 9 Levels of Submission as a point of reference.

I ask this because of some reading I have been doing, NOT on CM. It was that “substud” thread in “Ask a Mistress” that finally propelled me to ask this question.

Sir's curious girl

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

Post #: 1

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:05:47 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

The 9 levels of submission piece is one of the worst dogmatic kinky pieces of trash on the net- right between the 128 slave rules and "essay on why you can't be in subspace and orgasm."

People can and will continue to use whatever labels they want- whether it's because it sounds cooler, because they like it, because they feel it's their truth, whatever.

Unless you are going to take a stand and tell someone "You aren't who you say you are" then there's really nothing to say about the situation. And someone who would be willing to say that had better be a really very close person to who they are talking to, or else they are being completely rude and arrogant.

The moment you tell someone they can't label themselves, is the moment you open yourself up to having someone say and be justified in doing exactly that to you. So unless you want to deal with people telling you that you aren't who you say you are, that THEY know you better than you do, and THEY will decide when it's ok for you to use the terms you want to use- unless you want to live in a world where that's ok and good and you welcome that- then shut up and smile.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 2

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:12:18 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yeah, I agree with LA. Things like the "Nine Levels" exist because people are unsure of themselves and need to find some external validation of what they feel inside themselves but cannot articulate yet. But I've never understood why we flee the world of conventional sexuality only to rush to conform to other people's categories here.

As for why newbies like to call themselves "slaves": I think the main reason is that it sounds more thrilling and dangerous and alluring than just "sub." Also, some of them may have read (or heard about) the Gor novels and other fiction romanticizing slavery.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:12:34 PM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

LA said what I was thinking, and as usual, said it better than I could have while beating me to it.

quote:

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T.

I know you said not to read into the question, but I can't help but be a little peeved by the above statement.

To me, you're saying a person who has no r/t experience isn't allowed to call themself a slave. Being a slave means something different to everyone. My definition of slave isn't necessarily your definition of slave. Does that make me less of one? To me, no, to you, maybe.

Labels only matter to those doing the labeling. It shouldn't matter to anyone but that person. So why let it bother you?

_____________________________

He who laughs last didn't get the joke

We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 4

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:17:18 PM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

Some people like the word 'slave' better than 'submissive' and those who are new generally don't know better nor do they respect that 'slave' is an earned title; best advice, ignore the newbies who use the term 'slave' when they are truelly submissives.

As for the 9 levels of submission, I don't think they are very realistic; I do see in a more common sence verision that they would be more realitic. I won't reshash old debates, but part of the 9 levels is bs since we ALL have limits; some may have fewer than others, but everyone does have limits, that phrase alone is an oxymoron [no limits].

_____________________________

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 5

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:17:30 PM

sunlitflames

Posts: 84
Joined: 3/6/2006
Status: offline

people define "slave" a lot of different ways.

many think that learning a set of behaviors makes them a slave. those with a slave heart ... have had it their whole life... it just makes sense here.

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 6

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 8:47:27 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

Some people like the word 'slave' better than 'submissive' and those who are new generally don't know better nor do they respect that 'slave' is an earned title

Could you please clarify why "slave" is an "earned title."

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 7

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 9:12:53 PM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

LA said what I was thinking, and as usual, said it better than I could have while beating me to it.

quote:

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T.

I know you said not to read into the question, but I can't help but be a little peeved by the above statement.

To me, you're saying a person who has no r/t experience isn't allowed to call themself a slave.

Thanks for trying to clarify, tis not what I meant at all. Tis ok that you took it that way. Twas your understanding.

Being a slave means something different to everyone. My definition of slave isn't necessarily your definition of slave. Does that make me less of one? To me, no, to you, maybe.

Labels only matter to those doing the labeling. It shouldn't matter to anyone but that person. So why let it bother you?

Just because I am curious about something does not mean it bothers me.
I was trying to stay away from the conflict of defintions. Why? Because they are labels.

Sir's curious slut

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 8

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 9:29:25 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shyinini

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T.
I’ll use the 9 Levels of Submission as a point of reference.

Just because they are newbies doesn't mean they are mindless or uninformed about the difference between sub/slave dynamics. Perhaps they have read about the differences and simply identify more with slave then submissive.

i don't think you need rt experience to identify with something. If one did, no one would ever become anything lol.

i am not sure what you mean by their profiles demonstrating their lack of knowledge about what a slave is? Does every profile necessarily have to delineate the difference between sub and slave??

If they are new let them be - they will identify with what they feel most comfortable with and that which they feel suites them better. If they learn differently later on they can change their minds - nothing is set in stone. i just wonder why this bothers you so much?

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 9

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 10:04:43 PM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: shyinini

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T.
I’ll use the 9 Levels of Submission as a point of reference.

Just because they are newbies doesn't mean they are mindless or uninformed about the difference between sub/slave dynamics. Perhaps they have read about the differences and simply identify more with slave then submissive.
Evening velvetears,
You are absolutely correct. I will not disagree with you, nor did I imply in my initial post that such was true.

i don't think you need rt experience to identify with something. If one did, no one would ever become anything lol.

i am not sure what you mean by their profiles demonstrating their lack of knowledge about what a slave is? Does every profile necessarily have to delineate the difference between sub and slave??

Would you take the time to browse some profiles?
You will find in generalities....
"I am a slave.
I expect.........
I wont...........
If you want to contact me...............
I dont care what you think .......
If you are.......... I dont think you're dominant, so............
You will not push my limits, which are ............. "

"Substud" was rammed and hung by domme's, subs and etc for his red flags post.....

Just my observation., maybe not yours.

To each his/her own POV.........right??

If they are new let them be - they will identify with what they feel most comfortable with and that which they feel suites them better. If they learn differently later on they can change their minds - nothing is set in stone. i just wonder why this bothers you so much?

Never once did I say it bothered me. Who have I bothered?
I will ask on a message board anything I am curious about, to get other's POV.

Sir's girl

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 10

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 11:09:14 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shyinini

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience.

Frankly it's been a long time since I've read my own profile so I don't really remember what is on there anymore. I do know that I have limited experience with S&M and D/s. I've never been collared. I've only scened a handful of times. But I have spent a lot of time with Dominant and submissive friends. What I've been told by people who have been lifestyle for a number of years is that I have the makings of an excellent slave. Am I there now? No. But I'd like to go there. Doesn't it make more sense to say that I'm a slave with very limited experience than to say I'm an inexperienced submissive? Both are true, but my end-goal is to be a slave.

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 11

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 11:18:23 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Some people like the word 'slave' better than 'submissive' and those who are new generally don't know better nor do they respect that 'slave' is an earned title; best advice, ignore the newbies who use the term 'slave' when they are truelly submissives.

As for the 9 levels of submission, I don't think they are very realistic; I do see in a more common sence verision that they would be more realitic. I won't reshash old debates, but part of the 9 levels is bs since we ALL have limits; some may have fewer than others, but everyone does have limits, that phrase alone is an oxymoron [no limits].

Again you make the comment "slave is an earned title". You have been asked many times on many threads to clarify how the title is earned in your opinion but you fail to respond on every occassion. So please can you explain how you think this is so.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 12

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 11:22:51 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Just because they are newbies doesn't mean they are mindless or uninformed about the difference between sub/slave dynamics. Perhaps they have read about the differences and simply identify more with slave then submissive.

i don't think you need rt experience to identify with something. If one did, no one would ever become anything lol.

i am not sure what you mean by their profiles demonstrating their lack of knowledge about what a slave is? Does every profile necessarily have to delineate the difference between sub and slave??

If they are new let them be - they will identify with what they feel most comfortable with and that which they feel suites them better. If they learn differently later on they can change their minds - nothing is set in stone. i just wonder why this bothers you so much?

This is very true. When I eventually set up my profile on a site looking for a bdsm relationship I had no real life experience at all but I had spent many months reading and gaining information on the lifestyle and deciding exactly what it was that I wanted. I had got to a point in my life when I knew the type of relationship I wanted.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 13

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/1/2007 11:26:59 PM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

When i 1st learned of this lifestyle i read a few books about the subject before i joined alt. The books i read were sm101...screw the roses, and i have read the Anne Rice trilogy(that was just for fun LOL) i had some painful and interesting experiences on that other site. i learned that i personally identify as a slave...in my own opinion, the mind set and heart i seem to carry inside is that of a slave and not a submissive.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 14

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 12:49:38 AM

BlindUnknown

Posts: 66
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline

<OP>

Using the word "slave" on CM should be interpretted as being in the context of the site, and the site only offers four choices: Slave, Submissive, Switch, and Dominant.

If someone did a study of the, let's just say there's 10,000 people on CM, and they recorded exact answers of how they fit in here, you'd get 10,000 answers. Maybe 8,000 if you went conservatively.

If they applied margins to deal with wording of synonyms and such....you might make 200 categories, if you're lucky.

It's different for everyone, and if you're still not satisfied, that really just makes you an elitist.

_____________________________

Remember...the Dominant has power -in- the relationship, the sub has power -over- it.
Kioku shta ka?
"If Light and Darkness are eternal, than surely Nothings must be the same!"

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 15

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 2:26:31 AM

SexyCazzy

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

If I had to be honest, I have NO real time experiences....i.e. I have not experiences the hand of a Dom on my ass cheeks

But I do have some experiences online and have had a couple of D/s online relationships, however they were very breif...for many reasons which I won;t go into.

For me, I think everyone will have SOME submissive OR domination inside them....some others more than some others, it does depend on individuals. I do not think experiences of being a sub/slave or a Dom is enough, it is very important for them to feel the submissive or domination growing inside them. If they are not growing more and more, then any kind of experience they might have is not enough.

I DO have a submissive side inside me and everyday, it is growing and growing, making me want to experience "the hand of a Dom" for real, however I am taking my time and looking for a right Dom. I am not looking to rush into any D/s relationship and I always feel that if those with SOME or no experiences is rushing into a D/s relationship BEFORE chatting with each other, finding out about each other as a person, will be hurt big time in the end. I nearly did that but thankful, I didn't do it.

(I hope this does make sense???)

(in reply to BlindUnknown)

Post #: 16

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 3:01:07 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is

Why not call themselves slave if that is what they feel?

quote:

those who are new generally don't know better nor do they respect that 'slave' is an earned title;

How interesting. I am curious as to what you feel 'earns' that title?

quote:

"Substud" was rammed and hung by domme's, subs and etc for his red flags post.....

Since I am one of those who 'rammed' him for his post....let's just say that trolls are easy to spot...that poor excuse for a human deserved exactly what he got

Seriously though...if someone wishes to be called a slave...that is their perogative to do so...

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 17

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 3:30:18 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

Probably for the same reason I identify myself as a slave, or you identify with what you are.

Let's face it, there aren't that many things to choose from on there, so you pick the one that fits you the most. I am a slave to Master, yet I don't know that I consider myself a slave otherwise. This was someplace I knew I wanted to be, but until I met him I didn't give myself up totally nor would I to anyone else easily. I have a dominant personality, but I wouldn't consider myself a dominant, I don't feel that a switch feels right, nor a sub.

quote:

Would you take the time to browse some profiles?
You will find in generalities....
"I am a slave. They must feel they are for some reason.
I expect......... A slave can expect things just the same as anyone else.
I wont........... They can also not do things they choose not to, and have limits.
If you want to contact me............... They can also set up guidelines for that, such as no nude pics, and being respectful.
I dont care what you think ....... They aren't owned by them yet, so why should they?
If you are.......... I dont think you're dominant, so............ To them maybe they aren't dominant, or they are a wanker..it's okay to state that.
You will not push my limits, which are ............. " They can also feel free to set up limits they won't explore. I still have them with others, though not with Master. That doesn't make me less of a slave, it just means I have someone I am compatible with in all areas that I know won't do anything that would harm me.

Having things you specify in your profile is very much okay. Since so many have the idea that slaves are doormats and will get on their knees for everyone that says "kneel", you have to set the tone very early on that you are a slave, but you that doesn't mean you can't look for a dom that compliments everything that you are.

I am sure some wouldn't say I am a slave. I am very opinionated, I don't have a huge set of rules, I take care of all of the money in the home, I don't sleep tied to a bed, nor am I restricted on who I speak with....etc..the list goes on. I know with all of my heart though that I belong to Master, I am his to do with as he sees fit, and if he changed any of those rules tomorrow I would gladly adapt. It took a long time to find a dominant that wanted the same things out of life that I do, if that meant I was "too picky" to be a slave, then it did. Standards, wants, and needs exist whether you say you are a slave, sub, switch, or dom...and there is nothing wrong with that.

Then again it could be just what LA said, they think it sounds cooler.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 18

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 5:08:43 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

Please do not make something more of my question than it reads…

Geez shyinini - you are asking for a miracle there!

quote:

Why do “self stated newbies” call themselves "slaves," when their profile clearly demonstrates their lack of knowledge in what a “slave” is. And their profile also states they have never had real experience. That is no experience at all in R/T

.

Define firstly what a 'slave' is to you. It may not mean the same to everyone else. Yes there is a basic definition, but like so many words, when you explore it deeper it can be so much more. I have dark hair. But I am red half way down from my roots - black from the middle to the ends. But I can say I have dark hair. I am giving you a vague yet accurate description of what I look like so that may draw your interest or may not. It gives a moment, a small glimpse into what I may 'look' like. That is what calling oneself 'slave' is. It is a glimpse into the possibilities.

The moment you tell someone they aren't what they say they are, you are forcing your own personal POV on someone. It's fine to disagree, its just not up to you define what and who someone is without them doing the same back to you.

quote:

I’ll use the 9 Levels of Submission as a point of reference.

As for the 9 points - those like any general ruleset are a fantasy dogma and not really worth the screen they are posted on - personal POV but there you go!

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 19

RE: why slave and not submissive? - 7/2/2007 5:17:25 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The 9 levels of submission piece is one of the worst dogmatic kinky pieces of trash on the net- right between the 128 slave rules and "essay on why you can't be in subspace and orgasm."

Reminds me a lot of Dante's Inferno. 9 levels of submission, 9 levels of hell, both imaginary dogma...

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 20

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