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RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/2/2007 9:16:46 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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Right. They didn't have the juice. Thanks for clarifying that you actually agreed with me to begin with and simply phrased it in terms that stated the opposite.

Dragging the wheel back towards the OP, I sorta doubt this will have one bit of impact on anyone's thinking. Scooter probably won't have to wait nearly as long as Adm. Poindexter for his full pardon.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 41

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/2/2007 9:46:26 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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I wonder how long ago this whole scenario was arranged?

"We need a fall guy/scapegoat and will pay $XXX,XXX,XXX.XX to him and his family
and make sure he never does time in the penn.
Somebody step forward now, no pushing to the front to be the sacrificial goat!"

(format edit)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 7/2/2007 9:47:19 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/2/2007 10:53:46 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

"I respect the jury's verdict," Bush said in a statement. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison."

That's classic Bush, he respects the Court, pisses on its verdict, and protects his own. Its rare to see a Presidency so closely resemble a small, detached, special interest group.

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Post #: 43

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 12:53:55 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Not enough were up for reelection to make any real change happen.

Sinergy

Sinergy, the entire House of Reps was up for re-election in 2006.

The problem is that most of the Democrats that won in 2006 are moderates, not liberals. They are not following the rank and file. And the GOP is easily able to peel away enough Dems to basically shut down anything the Democrat leadership try to do. Remember the Republicans spent over 50 years in the minority, they know how to use the manuevers and procedures of the Congress to gum up the works.

The Democrats will be lucky to hold on to as many seats in the House that they have now. Many of the Democrats elected in 2006 are in districts where Republican voters outnumber Democrats. Tom DeLay's district is currently being held by a Democrat. That district is 60% Republican. Do you think that Dem will hold on to that seat if he joins forces with Pelosi? Nope. So he've actually voting more with the GOP than with his own party just so he can keep his seat.
It's the same story with Mark Foley's seat in Florida. It is a heavy GOP district being held by a Dem. There are many districts like this across the country. This is why Pelosi cannot move anything liberal through the House. The rank and file does not occupy the majority.

The system and rules are designed so neither party will ever have a super-majority. It has never happened in American history and it never will. And we are still very much a 50/50 nation. Polls show 53% of Americans say they will never vote for Hillary Clinton. So the election is going to be much harder for Dems to win than they think. Remember that Bush is not running for re-election. And the GOP candidates running have nothing to do with the Bush admin and can distance themselves. So bashing Bush won't carry much weight anymore.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 44

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 2:14:40 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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As always, one law for the rich and powerful and another for the poor.

Where are all the republicans defending this farce as an illustration of freedom and the rule of law?

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Post #: 45

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 2:27:06 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Even Paris Hilton had the balls to do her time.

Lewis Libby doesn't have the balls Paris Hilton does. Consider that.

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Post #: 46

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 3:21:55 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Even Paris Hilton had the balls to do her time.

Lewis Libby doesn't have the balls Paris Hilton does. Consider that.

LMAO!

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 47

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 3:25:33 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lacenleathergirl

How ironic. Scooter Libby makes Paris Hilton look like a hero.

lace

Yes, the way she demanded to be allowed to serve out her sentence... a role model for us all.

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Post #: 48

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 5:46:28 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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Jail time wont make Libby talk though...

Remember Susan McDougal and Web Hubble? They fell on the sword for Clinton. McDougal was in prison for a few years and never spilled the beans. Hubble died in prison.

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Post #: 49

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 7:12:43 AM

selfbnd411

Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
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How about Gov. Siegelman of Alabama? He got 7 years for "corruption" when he got a corporation to contribute $500,000 to a campaign to start a lottery for education in exchange for putting the CEO on a government board.

7 years, $500,000. The Justice Department had asked for 30 years.

Compare that to Jack Abramoff. He sold access to Bush and double-dealt on his clients to the tune of $20+ million dollars. One of the biggest political corruption scandals in American history. How did the Justice Dept react to that? Easy--they copped a plea bargain and Abramoff got off with 5 years.

7 years, $500,000. 5 years, $20,000,000. One man is a Democrat. One man is a Republican (with incriminating photos of himself with Bush, btw). Guess which is which.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287275,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff

< Message edited by selfbnd411 -- 7/3/2007 7:13:13 AM >

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Post #: 50

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 7:26:12 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Jail time wont make Libby talk though...

Remember Susan McDougal and Web Hubble? They fell on the sword for Clinton. McDougal was in prison for a few years and never spilled the beans. Hubble died in prison.

Got any proof McDougal or Hubbell knew anything? Unlike Libby who is convicted of perjury and obstruction.

BTW Hubbel didn't die in prison.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 51

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 7:31:54 AM

CrimsonMoan

Posts: 2652
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From: Portland, Me via Las Vegas Nv
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http://news.yahoo.com/comics/doonesbury;_ylt=Am_jIse_HOMvudMgLHE1H3kDwLAF

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Post #: 52

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 8:25:54 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Not suprising. Politicians are part of the elite and get special treatment. All the way from the small town councilman that is let go for at a traffic stop, even though he reeked of beer, all the way up to the President.

Orion

P.S. farglebargle I am still researching those things and so far everything has credence but also has some muddied waters. Will post a seperate thread when I am done with my research.

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Post #: 53

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 9:32:19 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Apparently only if you are left-wing.

Right-wingers are free to egregiously flout the law and not have to face the music for their illegal shenanigans.

The largest mass pardon of all time since the Civil War happened in 1977. President Carter granted unconditional amnesty for all those who fled to Canada to avoid serving in Vietnam.

Unlike this political motivated trial and conviction this pardon/amnesty effected the lives of many common citizens. Imagine the guilt felt by mothers and fathers who forced their sons to obey the law who served and died in Vietnam or never came back the same. Ironically, those that served and received less than honorable discharges where not eligible for any consideration. President Carter awarded the cowards who fled, but had no concern about those who served but for some reason could not complete their obligation.

Pardons have always been a fact of life in the US. The go back as far as the 'Whiskey Rebellion' and the citizens of the Confederacy, to George Steinbrenner and Patty Hearst. Any side using one example to denigrate the other political party or philosophy should first know history and look in the mirror. But then, limiting yourself to only reading one side of any issue, restricts your knowledge base.

Only the liberal side could rationalize a "more equal" status regarding equality even when it comes to pardons.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 54

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 9:38:43 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

There's nothing political about indicting and convicting someone who LIES. After Martha Stewart 18 USC 1001 shouldn't surprise anyone.

On the REAL CONSERVATIVE SIDE, this is either of Nation Under The Law, where a CONVICT SERVES THEIR SENTENCE, or it is nothing.

Remember when Bush supported Mandatory Minimum Sentences.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 55

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 9:56:37 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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Well this just in from the AP White House Spokesperson Tony Snow has stated that the President has not ruled out a Pardon for Libby. In my opinion..the commuting of the jail term has the GOP lucky to get elected Dog Catcher..if Bush pardons Libby..the GOP will never get elected to another office. Don't think so..McCain a GOP Candiate for the President position has stated he is out of money and is finding it hard to get donations. The two top Demos have no problem with getting money to run their campains.

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Post #: 56

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 10:04:05 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

Don't think so..McCain a GOP Candiate for the President position has stated he is out of money and is finding it hard to get donations. The two top Demos have no problem with getting money to run their campains.

Senator McCain's problems with raising money can be directly attributed to his support and using his name to label what would be the largest amnesty ever given to criminals - the 12+ Million illegal aliens. Gulianni, and other Republican candidates do not share his problem; they were smart enough to distance themselves from that political albatross.

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Post #: 57

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 11:57:47 AM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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So the left is very upset that a desk analyst who drove to work at the CIA headquarters everyday was exposed. Very very upset. Yet essentially the exact same posters on here are demanding the public exposure of essentailly All of our undercover agents working on the mideast, as well as thier helpers in the region. And they are demanding cross examination of all of our methods of Data collection. Because that is what is involved in a full Due Process trial. The right to confront the accusers, the right to question the nature of all evidence, publically. Now I understand why Farg and others who want to destroy our country want to do this, but does anyone really think the American people are up in arms over the exposure of Valerie Plame, but want to make a list of everyone in Afghanistan that gave any help to the USA public, and compromise our entire intelligence system, exposing hundreds? As well as recalling them from active duty to attend the trail?

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Post #: 58

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 12:22:21 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So the left is very upset that a desk analyst who drove to work at the CIA headquarters everyday was exposed. Very very upset. Yet essentially the exact same posters on here are demanding the public exposure of essentailly All of our undercover agents working on the mideast, as well as thier helpers in the region. And they are demanding cross examination of all of our methods of Data collection. Because that is what is involved in a full Due Process trial. The right to confront the accusers, the right to question the nature of all evidence, publically. Now I understand why Farg and others who want to destroy our country want to do this, but does anyone really think the American people are up in arms over the exposure of Valerie Plame, but want to make a list of everyone in Afghanistan that gave any help to the USA public, and compromise our entire intelligence system, exposing hundreds? As well as recalling them from active duty to attend the trail?

What a pack of lies.

First Valerie Plame was a CIA operative with a protected identity down to having a cover job. She did not drive to work at the CIA in VA every day but drove to her workplace in DC every day.

Second the US has constitutionally approved methods of handling criminal trials that involve state secrets. Why you believe that the government should be allowed to name someone as an 'illegal enemy combatant' and hold them indefinitely without any sort of review is a complete mystery to those of us who actually believe in the principals this nation was founded on.

Third the implication that everyone who wants fair trials for the gitmo detainees wants to destroy the country is at best an attempt to inflame and at worst a knowing attempt to equate anyone who disagrees with you a traitor. Which is the debate tactic of choice for those who know they have nothing.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 59

RE: Bush commutes Scooter Libby's sentence - 7/3/2007 12:22:40 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So the left is very upset that a desk analyst who drove to work at the CIA headquarters everyday was exposed. Very very upset.

If you think it's just "the left" who is upset about this, you're not paying attention or wearing what I'm sure are a very fashionable pair of blinders. As for her not being covert, well, that was already covered well enough in another thread. It's interesting that Bush's fan club seemed to evaporate from that thread after this post.

quote:

Yet essentially the exact same posters on here are demanding the public exposure of essentailly All of our undercover agents working on the mideast, as well as thier helpers in the region.

Really? Who exactly is doing this, because I seem to have missed it. Granted, I usually don't spend a lot of time in these threads because of the baseless statements others regularly make, but perhaps you'll prove this case to be an exception to the rule.

~stef

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Post #: 60

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