Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

What's love got to do with it


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> What's love got to do with it Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:12:42 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Control, bdsm, dominance......what about the emotions, what place do they or should they play, just wondering.......do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love? Is it or can it be like we see all the time, a man abuses a woman but she stays and insists he "loves" her? Who here has stayed in such a relationship? And what of the female dominants, do they "love" their sub males, or is it retribution for past wrongs? just curious....
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:16:03 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love?


It may be more appropriate to pose the question:  do masochists equate cruelty with love?

I am submissive, but I don't have a maso bone in my body, I don't equate cruelty with love, but a maso may.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:18:19 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir
Control, bdsm, dominance......what about the emotions, what place do they or should they play, just wondering

Mostly they exist, they react, we move with them.  THere's no "should" in emotions, only behaviors.

quote:

do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love?

Rarely.

quote:

 Is it or can it be like we see all the time, a man abuses a woman but she stays and insists he "loves" her? Who here has stayed in such a relationship? And what of the female dominants, do they "love" their sub males, or is it retribution for past wrongs? just curious....

Ugh no, sadism and masochism has nothing to do with abuse or retribution- and if someone tries to say it does then they are just abusive assholes who happen to be sadists or masochists.

We're about forming healthy positive relationships, whether for an hour or for a lifetime. 

http://www.collarchat.com/m_130087/mpage_1/key_sadist%252Cabuse/tm.htm#130087
What is a sadist?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308357/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#308357
Training and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_255676/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#255676
Defining Domination v Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_224182/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#224182
Ms/Ds is it a license to abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_177013/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#177013
Discipline or abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_142096/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#142096
Abuse vs discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_131849/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#131849
Abuse disguised as dominance

http://www.collarchat.com/m_123045/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#123045
Overuse of "Abuse"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_47262/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#47262
Physical Abuse of a slave

http://www.collarchat.com/m_41029/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#41029
SM vs Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1874/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#1874
BDSM versus Abuse




_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:22:52 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		I'm just asking in general terms as to what place cruelty plays and why any would stay in such a relationship rather than feel cared for, past abuse perhaps and that's what they're comfortable with as attention? Hell I don't know lol, just trying to figure out why I see so many women with assholes lol, I sure have my faults but don't think that's one of them, as those who've known me can attest, just have been frustrated in the past by uphill battles to win the heart of those who have been hurt, just to see them go and get with another jerk, hey it wasn't me lol , time to break a pattern? :)

< Message edited by MellowSir -- 7/3/2007 9:26:12 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:27:07 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Not all of us are masochists. Not all of us are being abused, in fact in a true d/s relationship abuse should not enter into it. That's because you cannot give informed consent if you are acceding due to fear or coercion. So if you take away fear of retribution, or fear in general and you still have informed consent meaning from someone capable of understanding what they are consenting to, then it would not be an abusive relationship.

He isn't a sadist so cruelty doesn't enter into this for us. I'm not a masochist. I submit to him because I prefer to submit in interpersonal relationships the same way that he dominates because his preference is to be the dominant partner in a relationship. We love each other.

We've both had enough therapy to be fully self aware that we are not revenging ourselves on the past by mistreating the person in our present and hopefully future.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:28:59 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Control, bdsm, dominance......what about the emotions, what place do they or should they play, just wondering.......do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love?


Sometimes yes, most times, probably not.

quote:

Is it or can it be like we see all the time, a man abuses a woman but she stays and insists he "loves" her?


If it happens outside of BDSM, rest assured it happens within D/s relationships as well. Someone may be involved in an alternative lifestyle but it doesn't make them immune to crap nor does it give them any extra skills to get themselves out of bad situations. It's a people thing, not a D/s thing.

quote:

Who here has stayed in such a relationship?


I did for 16 years.. but the abuser was my mother and I was a minor so I'm not sure if it counts. I did leave as soon as it was feasible to do so.

quote:

And what of the female dominants, do they "love" their sub males, or is it retribution for past wrongs? just curious....


It's both and more. Some do love their submissives, some do want to retaliate for perceived past wrongs, some are man haters, some hate themselves and some just want to engage in the sort of lifestyle they enjoy no strings attached and some want the whole enchilada, love, BDSM, marriage, kids etc. Truly, it takes all kinds, there are all kinds and if you can conceive of a notion or way to live life, someone, somewhere is probably doing it as well.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:32:08 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Good answer, and what of those subs who are obviously treated like crap? I suppose they consented to that treatment? I can see where verbal abuse can play an agreed-upon role, but is it a widely desired treatment or no?.....

< Message edited by MellowSir -- 7/3/2007 9:33:33 AM >

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:38:18 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir
Hell I don't know lol, just trying to figure out why I see so many women with assholes lol, I sure have my faults but don't think that's one of them, as those who've known me can attest, just have been frustrated in the past by uphill battles to win the heart of those who have been hurt, just to see them go and get with another jerk, hey it wasn't me lol , time to break a pattern? :)


What pattern? The pattern you have of chosing the same type of woman over and over again?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:41:40 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		No, actually I like all kinds of women, I have an ideal just like anyone else, but hardly expect a woman to meet that perfectly, I have learned to steer clear of the wrong kind, why haven't the women who like jerks done the same? lol . By the way, your master has a nice collection of toys, cool....

< Message edited by MellowSir -- 7/3/2007 9:45:13 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:43:20 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I don't see control, BDSM and dominance as indicators of abuse. Why do you connect them?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:43:56 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

No, actually I like all kinds of women, I have an ideal just like anyone else, but hardly expect a woman to meet that perfectly, I have learned to steer clear of the wrong kind, why haven't the women who like jerks done the same? lol


I could only guess at the answer and it would be a wild guess at that.  Have you tried asking them directly?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:46:38 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah I've tried asking, the answer is usually "he loves me", or his looks or money, or they're just too dumb to know any better lol

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 9:50:25 AM   
colkron


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline 		SOMEWHERE in this PILE of jerks is a Dom who is JUST what I am looking for and is looking for someone JUST like me. It's like going to a sale. You have to pick through a lot of stuff to get what you really want, but it's generally worth the effort. And sometimes, you have to take it home and try it out to find that is really only a jerk again, then send him back to wherever he came from. I am very much into humiliation, but it's finding the man who can CALL me names and STILL respect me. It's quite a trick. First, you have to find a man who gets off on humiliating, and those guys TEND to be jerks. But there's GOTTA be one in her SOMEWHERE.... The same thing goes for a Dom looking for the right submissive..... 

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 10:50:30 AM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Control, bdsm, dominance......what about the emotions, what place do they or should they play, just wondering.......do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love? Is it or can it be like we see all the time, a man abuses a woman but she stays and insists he "loves" her? Who here has stayed in such a relationship? And what of the female dominants, do they "love" their sub males, or is it retribution for past wrongs? just curious....

Greetings
 
I seem to remember you once before asking this very same question; only last time, you worded it differently.
What part do emotions play in the relationship between Master and I? They play a huge part. Without the love that is within our relationship; we would have no relationship.
Do I equate cruelety with love? Of course not. But, Master loves me dearly and he is one of the most cruel men I have ever met. It does not make him an evil person who is out to destroy everyone he comes into contact with though.
According to the 'law', Master abuses me mentally, emotionally, and psychologically on a daily basis  Who is to say that what he does is not something that I want and need? YOU?
 
I am often amused when others, who have no understanding of what 'makes' a sadist tick; try to say that it must be simply because they are actually abusers. There is nothing within sadism that is bad, per se...only in the person that applies it wrongly.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 11:42:59 AM   
MistressSibel


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I can honestly say from experience in an abusive D/s relationship that you don't always see the abuse. It can be easily masked as something else. When a Master hits a slave out of anger it is easy to say it was out of discipline or anything like that. The abuse is made to look like love in a way. It's sounds strange but it is very true. It's brainwashing and unless the sub (or partner for that matter) can recognize it right from the beginning it's hard to see it later in the relationship.
Luckily I was able to eventually see the abuse taken out on me and realized that it was not obedience training and left. But for a lot it is not as easy.

After leaving this relationship I became a Pro Dom after a couple of years and even though I don't see a specific client day to day I still care about them. It takes a lot of mental power to submit and I think knowing that give me a loving mind set even if I am punishing someone.

(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 12:57:07 PM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		I know there are those who LIKE cruelty, I'd just like to know why, masochism aside, for any who have bad habits are harming themselves thereby being masochistic anyway, was it something in the past or is it something else, curiouser and curiouser lol

< Message edited by MellowSir -- 7/3/2007 1:11:26 PM >

(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 12:58:31 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I'm just asking in general terms as to what place cruelty plays and why any would stay in such a relationship rather than feel cared for, past abuse perhaps and that's what they're comfortable with as attention? Hell I don't know lol, just trying to figure out why I see so many women with assholes lol, I sure have my faults but don't think that's one of them, as those who've known me can attest, just have been frustrated in the past by uphill battles to win the heart of those who have been hurt, just to see them go and get with another jerk, hey it wasn't me lol , time to break a pattern? :)


This is all over the board and as a sadist who loves a masochist let me just tell you that a consentual S&M relationship does not equate to abuse or cruelty.  When I hurt Robert he enjoys that pain.  I would never harm him.  Hurt and harm to entirely different animals...Harm is nearly irreversable or totally irreversible where as hurt goes away and doesn't cause extended damage of any kind, not just physical but emotional. 

Cruelty is wrong, bad, horrible stuff that is done for all the wrong reasons.  Cruelty is a real life rape that does physical damange and scars emotionally.  Cruetly is beatings that make someone afraid to speak or make a move for fear of what comes next and they HATE the beatings.  They feel harmed, they are scared, they are emotionally ruined, bones are broken, ambulance trips taken.  Cruelty is taking your bad day out on someone or stating that they "deserved it" when they were knocked unconscious because dinner was 10 minutes late.

Cruelty is not fwacking Robert with a quirt and saying to him "are you ready?  this is going to really hurt this time."  Cruelty is not taking a paddle to his ass.  Cruelty is not watching his cock get hard as stroke him while I bite him.  These are things collectively we love to enjoy with each other.

Does the guy who beats up his wife because "he can" love her?  Got me, don't know, don't care.  Do I love Robert?  Oh my gods and stars yes I do and I will never harm him.

Would I play as "hard" with someone else as I do Robert? Nope.  I inflict according to tolerance, want and need.  So if I find myself in the position of having a non masochist in my claws...I take great care to ensure they leave my presence as unharmed as Robert (whether I love them or not...since love doesn't have to necessarily have anything whatsoever to do with BDSM and it's intricacies).

As a sidenote:  As a rule I prefer to dominate only those I either am friends with, care for deeply or love. 

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 1:10:26 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Good answer, and what of those subs who are obviously treated like crap? I suppose they consented to that treatment? I can see where verbal abuse can play an agreed-upon role, but is it a widely desired treatment or no?.....


You are making broad sweeping and not so intelligent statements.  First of all "treated like crap" is relative.  I guarantee someone outside of the relationship Robert and I have would think I treat him like crap.  I also guarantee there is someone out there who longs to be in the relationship Robert and I have.  Second of all you are presuming that someone who truly is being abused in a BDSM relationship is "consenting" out of fear or some other volition with negative undertones.  If someone is being abused it is THEIR job to get their ass out of it.  Period.  I know it isn't easy, I've been there and done that...but no one can save themselves but themselves.  So if someone is being abused regardless of the type of relationship (BDSM, wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, parent/child, etc. etc.) then they need to find their way clear to get out.

You need to realize that not everyone thinks as you do and they never will.  I once met a man who wanted me to verbally abuse and treat him terribly.  I couldn't and wouldn't do it.  He found that he needed to atone for some misgiving in his life and the only way to do that was to be abused by others.  I found that appalling and was not the person for him.  To me I would have been abusing him..even though he claimed to want it.  I feel he thought he deserved it not necessarily truly wanting of it.  I personally can't imagine feeling that way but I know those people exist.  I knew it before I met him and I'll know it long after.  I know there are people who want someone to use them as a toilet too.  I can not personally fathom that idea either...but I don't have to.  I simply bypass those people.  Which is exactly what you should do.  Bypass those with whom you can't find common reasonable ground. 

There are no absolutes in life.  If you can concieve it there is a human being for every possible level of conceptualized treatment or play. 

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 1:12:17 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Control, bdsm, dominance......what about the emotions, what place do they or should they play, just wondering.......do subs/slaves equate cruelty with love? Is it or can it be like we see all the time, a man abuses a woman but she stays and insists he "loves" her? Who here has stayed in such a relationship? And what of the female dominants, do they "love" their sub males, or is it retribution for past wrongs? just curious....


Hello MellowSir,

Your last question makes me pause and wonder...

Do you feel that a female dominant is dominant because she is retaliating for past wrongs?  I don't mean to read more into what you are saying and so I ask for clarification here. 

I don't see the difference between a male dominant and a female.  They are dominant.  Why specifically ask the female dominants if their domination is retaliation for past wrongs and not ask all dominants if they are dominant because of past wrongs? 

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: What's love got to do with it - 7/3/2007 1:14:59 PM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Well I know we all think differently, that being said, the heart of my question is WHY someone is that masochistic, I'm not meaning to come across as critical of it just curious as to the reasons....certainly I've known a few pain sluts and likely will know more, yet not one has been able to explain why the pain, physical or mental, feels good lol.....

(in reply to earthycouple)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> What's love got to do with it Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078