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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 2:09:22 AM   
becca333


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I agree there's a huge sense of entitlement.  "But I wanted to" is considered a fair excuse.

If any of those little darlings skittled my grandmother as she walked along the footpath minding her own business, they'd find out that the arrest was kid glove treatment compared to what they'd get then.

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 2:19:28 AM   
xsdenied


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I wish the cops in our country (Holland) were more like this one......
Simple, run for the law & get your ass kicked.  This wasn't near an ass kicking.. not even choking, just a bodylock.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 4:29:22 AM   
SubinMaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Depends on where you live. Break into my home and your ass is dead, and I have not committed a crime. In fact in my state if I feel threatened I can shoot you.

orion



It's the same here, as far as breaking into a home or tresspassing....



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That which yields is not always weak...

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 5:07:24 AM   
stella40


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quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

sleazybutterfly
I loved your reply- I deal with alot of teenagers and what you say is true.
Seems they are being taught they are entitled- can do or say anything they want- nothing is ever their fault- there is no respect- no responsablity- no manners- no work ethic it's a shame (every genteration just seems to get worst)
quote:

I think he got what he deserved. Kids today don't learn respect for anyone in most circumstances. They think they can whine, cry, talk back, and then get away with anything. I know there are some good ones out there, thank goodness..because there are so many that aren't the world will sure need them to step up as the years go by.

Might seem harsh, but I am so tired of hearing whiny assed teens crying about how they aren't treated fair. Welcome to the real world, you better get used to it now because it only gets more unfair the older you get.



Oh right. So what if the skateboarders had been 60 or 70 years old, for example? Would that have made any difference?

To me it doesn't - the law is the law, it doesn't matter what age you are.

And yes, the teenagers (or young adults, who were also present according to the article) did turn round and try to argue with the cop, and tried to run away and they were foolish.

But you know, I can remember being a teenager and challenging authority and feeling that I could argue my case with the police or any authority figure in general. It's like the few times I was convinced that I could drink over a bottle of vodka with a couple of bottles of red wine and sleep for an hour and a half and still feel great the next day. Or that I could get through two parties on two nights without any sleep. Or that you could meet someone in a bar, go back to their place, jump into bed with them and this was such a big relationship.

Haven't you done things as a teenager when you remember you cringe or think 'maybe I shouldn't have done that'?

It's very easy to be 10, 20 or even 30 years older and to point the finger at teenagers and with the comfort of hindsight criticise them, but I do believe that until they become mature adults all teenagers have The Right To Be Stupid.

I can't say what it's like to be a teenager today because I'm from a different generation, and yes they do seem disrespectful, they have no responsibility, they feel they can say or do whatever they like and they are entitled to do so, and they can treat people with no respect. But why is that exactly? Who brings up these teenagers? And why have we as a society removed their voice of protest. Who are their role models?

And hey, guess what? Why not go and check out some of the threads posted on the General BDSM boards? Because there too you will find a few threads and postings from people who whine, feel that they're entitled, no respect, no sense of responsibility, where nothing is ever their fault, and these are threads and postings written by seemingly mature adults.

This just seems to be the way society is right now. I live in hope of a society which places people above material gain, where people will have time for each other again and we will rediscover what family, community and respect really mean.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 5:09:16 AM   
bifemaleNeeded


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

quote:

ORIGINAL: georgejames68

I like IrishMist's take on it. I know my father made it a rule that if I were punished in any way, I could expect the same or more when I got home. He always checked to be sure it was justified. And woe to me if it was!

This attitude of going overboard protecting the rights of law-breakers is getting downright sickening. Whoever heard of (in my day, I'm 69) of a homeowner being punished for inflicting damage of some sort on someone who just broke into his house???.....

Invictus754 above, You appear to be a bit too rough. Becoming a murderer for instant justice is a bit far fetched!!!

George


Well, I figured the policeman was a good enough shot he wouldn't have to shoot to kill, just to wing him in the leg and bring him down.
 
Edited to add: "An armed populace is a polite populace." - Robert Heinlein
 


That only happens in the movies, and no, most law enforcement officers are not that good a shot.  With the budget most law enforcement has today, they barely come up with enough to cover the ammo for qualifying.  Much less enough for live fire practive. 

A bullet wound can leave devastating physical damage, even just a wounding shot to a limb.  So it is not something to be taken lightly.  Deadly force is just that, to be used to stop someone from seriously injuring or causing the death of yourself or another. 

In my state the law has now been changed to being able to use deadly force to protect property as well as life.   We no longer have to retreat to use it and can use it outside our own property to protect the property of another.  The smarter criminals will move to states with stricter firearm laws where they are more protected and can prey on the law biding unarmed citizens safely.

As to the law enforcement officer in the video,  I thought he handled things rather professionally.  Putting others at risk by riding skateboards on public right of way is not a god given right like some juveniles seem to believe.   Too many of today's youth seem to think the law only applies to others.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 5:20:31 AM   
SubinMaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

I do believe that until they become mature adults all teenagers have The Right To Be Stupid.



i have to say, this is a commendable way of thinking


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That which yields is not always weak...

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 5:27:25 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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if you run from the cops, youre gonna get treated roughly.......i saw nothing wrong with the way the cop handled it...

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 6:23:59 AM   
farglebargle


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I don't trust INTERNAL reviews, and THIS little line terrifies me:

"He didn't resort to anything above hand control techniques "

You know you can KILL SOMEONE with your hands?

I bet in his town, they'd say the same thing if he killed a someone, too.





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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 6:31:13 AM   
LeMis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/officer-cleared-of-choking-skateboarder/20070703091809990002?ncid=NWS00010000000001

What do you think?


It doesn't show what happened prior or after...

I think (just from what was seen in the video) that maybe the officer might have been a little bit stressed over the kids running from him.  I thought I heard the 2nd officer talking to him to calm him down, I might have been mistaken though.

Overall I think the officer was doing his job.

BTW, did cuddle ever post what SHE thought yet? 
C'mon girl, we want to know your opinion too! 


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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 7:20:05 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Depends on where you live. Break into my home and your ass is dead, and I have not committed a crime. In fact in my state if I feel threatened I can shoot you.

orion



Almost correct.

If you live in any state in the United States, you cannot justify the use of deadly force merely for a property crime alone.
Garner v. Tennessee trumps all state laws, and it sets the standard that the police cannot execute someone for nothing more than a property crime, which by extension requires private citizens to have more at stake than a stolen X-box. You cannot kill just to defend property.

'Feeling threatened'  isn't enough, else there would be  piles of dead Jehovah's Witnesses on the doorsteps. There has to be a specific, imminent, and credible threat of death or great bodily harm.

'Fear for your life' is a given in some states if you are at home when a burglar breaks in and in other states you have the 'retreat to the wall doctrine'..but in all cases, there has to be a reasonable basis for that 'fear'...simple trespass isn't good enough, and preventing the loss of property isn't good enough.

I would highly recomend that all gun owners who think they have these 'rights' to shoot trespassers, 'threats', and others, take a CCW class even if you don't plan to carry outside of your home... a good instructor will dispel these media influenced myths.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 7:31:40 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

it sets the standard that the police cannot execute someone for nothing more than a property crime


Explain Amadou Diallo.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 7:50:39 AM   
Alumbrado


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Explain your own hypocrisy.. the police in Diallo were charged with violating the Garner standard.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:07:40 AM   
farglebargle


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And they got a pass. Because their poor training and supervision let them enter a situation where they "Felt Threatened" by someone standing on his front step, who thought HE, HIMSELF was being jacked.

If the excuse for breaking the law is so transparently thin, so as to be laughable, as in a single, unarmed man standing in front of his home to be a threat to the 4 armed men who murdered him, is there really a Law?

Hypocracy? Not so much me, as the NYPD and the DA and Judges getting together to ensure they walked. Maybe I have a problem with Jury Instructions in general. Jury Nullification doesn't sound like a bad thing, considering the opposite is happening, where the Juries are given instructions so narrow as to guarantee the desired outcome.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/4/2007 8:08:34 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:12:44 AM   
Alumbrado


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The record shows that they were subjected to a trial by jury, and that they prevailed on the basis of their Constitutional right to a zealous defense.

What you have a problem with is other people having inalienable rights and using them to get what you don't want them to have.

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:13:15 AM   
cuddleheart50


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geez, and all of this...starting with a video on skateboards.

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Sing like no one is listening.
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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:17:32 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The record shows that they were subjected to a trial by jury, and that they prevailed on the basis of their Constitutional right to a zealous defense.

What you have a problem with is other people having inalienable rights and using them to get what you don't want them to have.


I have a problem with people gaming the system.

It all stems from the Hamiltonian's desire to, like any addict, continue their addiction to control and power.

The interview with the Diallo jurors where the specifically complained about the artificial narrowness of the judges instructions to them really struck me as dishonest. But that's me.

The Connected Rich White Folks go free, and the Niggers get tossed into prison.

And if you don't believe that, go ask Scooter!

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/4/2007 8:18:51 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:18:05 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

geez, and all of this...starting with a video on skateboards.



I thought it was a video of innocent kids being beaten and strangled by the Man

Or was it young hooligans with no respect being brought to justice?

I can never remember

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:19:37 AM   
farglebargle


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It was a video of a poorly trained and poorly supervised person losing control of themselves, and the situation.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:21:52 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

I have a problem with people gaming the system.


Baby - bathwater. Reality has that built in problem.

Prevent Scooter Libby from mounting a zealous defense, and you close that door to everyone. Prevent mega corporations from culling the employee herd, and you force mom-and pop operations to go out of business.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Too Rough, Or Doing His JOb? - 7/4/2007 8:25:38 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I have a problem with people gaming the system.


Baby - bathwater. Reality has that built in problem.

Prevent Scooter Libby from mounting a zealous defense,


But he did, and before the appeals were heard, His Connected White Buddy, made sure he wouldn't ever have to see the inside of a prison.

Back to what I said in another thread, it's a Class issue. ONE LAW FOR THEM, and another for the rest of us.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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