RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (Full Version)

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littlesarbonn -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/3/2007 11:46:03 PM)

No. I am a sub because I'm naturally submissive and am not comfortable telling a woman what to do in a D/s relationship. I'm also not comfortable in a vanilla relationship, so that pretty much leaves one option.




charismagirrl -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 12:35:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Um no!!




Magik's slave


MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY you beat me to it dang it. Sooooo

UMMMM NO




solitudesmiles -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 12:56:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiladyElaine

I have often wondered through conversing with various subs - male and female- if they like being submissive and punishment because they themselves feel unworthy from past transgressions.  Like they "did their spouses wrong" by cheating and feel the need to cleanse themselves?
  um, i myself have been submissive all my life as long as i can remember, i'vve always taken the submissive role in just about everything i do except at work. why cant people just respect that we are submissives because its who we are not for something we've done in the past. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~being happy doesnt mean evrything has to be perfect it just means you've chosen to look beyond the imperfections~~~~~~~~~~




julietsierra -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 1:47:19 AM)

ok, I confess. Your need to find out why I am submissive is kind of odd, but here anyway, here goes...

I'm submissive because of John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, John Hart (The Lone Ranger) and Guy Williams (Zorro). I'm submissive because of Vincent Price, Bella Lagosi and oooh yeaaa... Frank Langella. I'm submissive because of Yul Brenner (The Buccaneer), and every other pirate movie out there. I'm submissive because of I Dream of Jeannie.

You see, while those people, and television shows have never "made" me submissive, when watching them from my very early years on, they always resonated with me. John Wayne: oooh, the girl tied to the wagon wheel...same thing with Vincent Price, and Bella Lagosi, except it wasn't wagon wheels, it was (be still my heart) dungeon walls. And Frank Langella.. oh my! How could I NOT want to be the object of his desire when as Dracula, he scaled the wall to enter that girl's bedroom?!!

John Hart as The Lone Ranger and Guy Williams as Walt Disney's Zorro - what can you say about a masked man and someone who carries a whip and a sword who everyone calls Don Diego? Then, of course, there's I Dream of Jeannie where Jeannie showed us all just how much FUN being owned and calling someone "Master" could be.

I'm saving Clint and his spaghetti westerns for last... Y'know the bad guys that always invaded the town looking to deflower the prettiest girls there? Those darn girls NEVER looked unhappy that they'd been deflowered and while of course you always hoped Clint would save the day, along the way, being one of those deflowered girls was always kind of exciting to think about.

Yep, it's THEIR fault. (Isn't that what you're supposed to do? Blame the media?)

In other words, I've always been this way. I don't feel as if I'm atoning for something each time I do the things he likes me to do for him. I don't feel as if I'm atoning when I make his coffee or bring him breakfast, hand him his fishing pole or make sure he has enough covers at night. I don't feel as if I'm atoning when I'm scrubbing the carpet (yep, scrubbing - none of this "call the carpet cleaners" for him) doing the dishes or helping to paint the bottom of the boat. I don't feel as if I'm atoning when he tells me to stay home and I stay home. Nor do I feel as if I'm atoning when we're doing any of the things we do together or the things I do for him while we're apart. In short, atonement has absolutely nothing to do with our relationship.

I suppose what does have to do with our relationship is the fact that when I was small, I used to miss the bus home every day during the winter because I'd be so busy helping the other kids on with their boots, hats and coats that I'd completely forget to get myself together. What does have to do with our relationship is that I absolutely detest housework and all that other stuff - when I have to do it for me. However, I get some weird thrill doing it for someone else (I don't know, since I'm being introspective, perhaps I have an inordinate need for outside praise - except that doesn't work because he doesn't do that either - so much for introspection). What does have to do with our relationship is that I have always been the one around the house who wanted to bring the men their coffee after dinner, clean the table and cut the pies at holidays. In short, following orders and getting them right has always been at the core of who I am and what makes me tick. There can only be so many leaders and then there have to be the really excellent followers. That's who I am. In that capacity, I can actually lead others, but ONLY in the capacity of doing what someone else wants. I'm a great follower and I'm proud of that fact.

And punishment has absolutely no place in our relationship, so it's not because I'm seeking to be punished for anything either.

What I don't understand is this drive to find out WHY we're submissive as if there's something wrong with the way we are. It was precisely this kind of thinking that for years, made me accept less in my life. I was always trying to be more (as if being submissive is somehow less-than), do more, and always for the wrong reasons. More independent, more in charge, more more more...and it made me absolutely, unequivocally miserable.

Now days, I freely acknowledge that I'm submissive. I have someone in my life who allows me to simply be me. I don't particularly care whether I'm hiding, in the deep recesses of my mind, some traumatic event I have no awareness of or it it's the fault of the media, my parents, the fact that my mother worked her whole life and wasn't a stay at home mom or if this is just always the way I've been. It simply doesn't matter to me. I am this way because this is how I am. I have spent years and years and years denying what and who I am and pretending to be someone and something I wasn't. I always felt out of place and became so good at settling that I never even realized something more was out here. I just knew I wasn't happy. I was never ever happy!! Seriously, I just thought I was broken or something. My standard response to sex was "is this all there is?!"

So, why in the WORLD, now that I AM happy and FINALLY feel like I'm being exactly who I was meant to be, would I even begin to consider that being submissive was somehow a dysfunctional response to something I did wrong at some point in my life? Why in the world, upon discovering that what I was feeling was NOT all there was, WHY would I try to look for something wrong to make me how I am?

It just makes no sense.

So, because atonement makes no sense to me, I'll just say it's Clint's fault.

juliet




MsStryker -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 2:25:31 AM)

From what I have seen and asked, most are just wired that way.
My favorite play thing tries to be so perfect so there is never a need for punishment. The thought of punishment makes him whimper and in a bad way. There are much mor  fun ways to make a boy like him whimper!! hehe
Some need a break from their world.
Some just do not feel at ease unless in service.
Has anyone else read the venus and mars diet and exercise book?, now I dont know what the venus mars regular books say but this one has a portion talking about how males need to be in service to keep their balance, now Dominant males go about it in a different way than submissives, but the decent males tend to like helping a Woman out from what I have experienced. It suggests if a man is in a bad mood then ask him to open a jar or get something down or whatever and it can help the chemical balance. It smacks of a common thread in the Dark Jewels series, on how to deal with males.
I am forever looking to know the submissive mind more fully, so I support this question and all the others. If we do not ask then we will never thave the chance to know.
Ms Alizbeth




m0rgan -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 3:09:16 AM)

a cursory glance at any bunch of um's in a social situation will show some leaders, some followers/joiners in, and some loners. those traits are generally born with, but subsequent experiences may alter or change those traits just because they become enjoyable, or repugnant, and other behaviour patterns become more attractive, alternatively, sometimes, what you can get is all that you can get, so that becomes your staple requirement. sometimes, surprisingly, ones staple diet becomes stale, and a change in behaviour for the sake of novelty can suddenly become fascinating and exciting.
i blame the automatic washing machine, because when monday was washday, tuesday was mangle day and wednesday was ironing day, there wasn't enough time for women to get bored, and seek more novelty!!!
to answer your question more seriously, we are all what we either allow or make ourselves become, but i am not sub, so not qualified to satisfactorily answer and will shut up now.




becca333 -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 3:43:08 AM)

We definitely watched all the same movies when we were growing up!  Frank Langella as Dracula - ohhhhwow he was luscious.  Pity he's gone off a bit as he got older.  And those Clint Eastwood movies - when he dragged the girl to the barn.... ohhhh yes happy moments.




shyinini -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 6:29:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiladyElaine

I have often wondered through conversing with various subs - male and female- if they like being submissive and punishment

I am sure some like BEING submissive if that is not who they, in personality are.  I AM submissive.  Do I enjoy punishment / discipline?  Hell no.

because they themselves feel unworthy from past transgressions. 

My past is my past and has NOTHING to do with my present relationship unless I allow it to and then Sir will deal with it.  My Sir wrote ~~
I will not however, permit the sins of the people in my past to be paid for by the people in my present nor my future.
I believe this with my whole heart; I am trying to learn it and live by it.  Sir IS helping me.
 
So if someone wants to be cleansed of past transgressions, I believe that no amount of punishment, beatings, humiliation, etc will cleanse them until THEY CAN FORGIVE THEMSELVES.

Like they "did their spouses wrong" by cheating and feel the need to cleanse themselves?

I REFUSE to allow the decietfullness, dishonesty, lack of integrity of my ex Dom to be MY fault.  I am not who he is.  And even tho I can read his present girls journal, she doesnt know he still tried to sauvely talk me into going down and serving him again, without my Dom knowing.  What an asshole.  Like I want to serve him for being the jerk he is?  What would that say about me?  And lose the man who wants me more than he ever did?
 
I have no need to cleanse my self for HIS lack of integrity, or any other past ex's who found it within themselves to lie or cheat on me.
 
I think if an individual uses this "lifestyle" ~~that is MS ~~ to cleanse their mind physically, hasnt got the foggiest clue of what forgiving one's self, personal atonement and redemption are all about.   



 
Sir's treasured  cumslut




BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 6:36:39 AM)

Well I could give you the history of "me" that shows certain patterns, but I have a headache, so I'll just give the condensed version.......

It's just who and how I am, and it took decades for me to understand it, accept it and nurture it.  So here I am. [:)]




sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 6:56:16 AM)

what a ludicrious assumption. so i guess the reason why you're a dominant is because you were bullied in school and now you want to transfer all that aggression at the people who were mean to you.

to answer your question - no, i'm not a submissive because i have this burning urge to repent for past sins. i am submissive because it's my nature to be this way (according to Daddy) though it took me 34yrs to "discover" that side to me.






kyraofMists -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 7:02:05 AM)

I am a slave because it fulfills me and makes me very happy to transfer authority to him.  I am his slave because I am highly worthy of that honor.

Knight's Kyra




arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 7:57:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiladyElaine

I have often wondered through conversing with various subs - male and female- if they like being submissive and punishment because they themselves feel unworthy from past transgressions.  Like they "did their spouses wrong" by cheating and feel the need to cleanse themselves?

It makes me wet.  I enjoy it.  That's my bottom line.  I am a tad arrogant.  With a healthy ego.  And I don't do guilt.




sjacket -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 8:22:58 AM)

I am submissive by nature, Hers by destiny.  Guilt has nothing to do with it- it would be like feeling guilty for my heart beating. 




pleasureforck -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 8:26:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

My therapist says it's because I have huge responsibilities in day to day life and therefore it's like a mini vacation to turn problems over to him and just follow along. She's got all the fancy degrees so I'll assume she's right!


I think thats part of why I love submitting also. I have so many responsibilites to taking care my kids who have disabilities that its nice to be able to relinquish some control of my life to someone who wants to love and protect me. Besides I've always had a need to please people just for the sake of their happiness not because of any guilt.
I don't see how submitting to him would make up for any of my past mistakes.




velvetears -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 8:53:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiladyElaine

I have often wondered through conversing with various subs - male and female- if they like being submissive and punishment because they themselves feel unworthy from past transgressions.  Like they "did their spouses wrong" by cheating and feel the need to cleanse themselves?


i am sure if you polled 1000's of subs you might get one or two who would give you that reason.  There are probably even more ridiculous reasons out there for subs wanting to be submissive.  i have ceased trying to pick and analyse it to death and just accept it for what it is - a part of me.  i also like to do cross stitch, and study certain subjects, plan house projects and decorating, collect antiques etc but if i spent all my time trying to figure out why i wanted to do all those things, what it meant, where in my childhood did that particular desire spring from hell i would have no time to get anything done!  i think people who spend too much time wondering the "why's" of their particular kink have troble accepting it and probably feel some guilt about it, just my thoughts.




beargonewild -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 9:07:11 AM)

No that is not the case and I do have a very strong submissive streak in me. This is how I always have been. To be blunt, the parents also re-inforced this in me as a child through being over protective and always demanding to explain my actions, account for my whereabouts even if I was next door at a friends, to always ask for permission, etc. So inadvertantly, they helped mold the submissiveness inherent in me from an early age.
My submissiveness is hard wired, my parents just provided the necessary training for this to be my main personality trait. This is how I see it for myself only.




k8trix -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 9:20:54 AM)

I don't personally submit out of any kind of guilt. For me, I feel a great sense of balance and passion in the act of completely surrendering to another being's total domination. There's a great current that passes between two people when the depth of ones submission is met by the same depth of domination. 




KMsAngel -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 9:51:44 AM)

interesting take on reinforcements, Bear. I was brought up that way too, and my children were as well. and at least one of them, and probably both, show signs of following in my footsteps. perhaps they will have less societal conditioning to fight against, but somehow i think they'll have much the same struggles to dissasociate what I'm TOLD i should be, from who i think i am deep inside.

edited for late night spelling mistakes




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/4/2007 10:42:46 AM)

Plenty of usbs have guilt issues and need external approval and it is in fact a great part of their appeal to submit- but I don't think that's the actual root of the orientation.

And while I can enjoy helping someone build their esteem, I've no interest in being their confessor or substitute for god.




littleone35 -> RE: Are you sub because of a guilty conscience? (7/5/2007 10:11:39 AM)

I was born to be His girl.  I was always suubmisive. Guilt what guilt? There is no guilt for me in being his, if there was he would not want me just because i felt i needed to be cleansed.  Yes i do get displines and 1 punishment but only caues i "earned" them he does not diapline or punish me just for the hell of it.

Matt's littleone




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