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Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:42:51 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		How much freedom should an employer have in choosing their employees?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:45:36 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		That's hard. As part of the Corporation Formation process, the Corporation *AGREED* to go by all the Regulations imposed.

That's pretty cut-and-dried. You wanna keep your Corporation running, you follow the Regulations.

Don't like the Regs, close up shop, and liquidate your assets.. .Better luck next time.

Now, is all that *RIGHT*???

Yes, no, and maybe. While I think we need tighter controls on Corporations in general, I'm unsure if hiring decisions is the appropriate place to focus, considering the FDA is letting companies sell poison dog-food....





< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/4/2007 6:46:50 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:50:46 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		As an employer myself, I'm looking for only one thing - who can do the job?

If I have two or more candidates who can do the job, then I'm looking for who will fit best into my team in terms of personality. Whilst theyre not coming to work for me to make friends, if they can be friends its always a plus.

If they both/all would fit into my team and can do the job, then I have in the past taken more than just the one of them - good people are too rare to let walk away.

Considerations as to whether their skin colour matches mine, whether their beliefs and politics match mine, whether theyre whatever else, dont come into it. There is no point in me spending a fortune on the salary of someone that isnt going to make it back for me, with interest, for such reasons.

E

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:51:46 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		What about non-corporations? A mom-and-pop store, a night-club?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:52:16 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How much freedom should an employer have in choosing their employees?


this is going to open a can of worms i bet

having been in management for a few years now, i can tell you i have classes every year going over what questions are acceptable to ask and not ask....i work for a county school system, so im sure we have more paranoia about being sued than most but.....

even thought reading is required for the positions i hire for-i am not allowed to ask if they can read.......i am allowed to hand them an employee manual, and ask them to read a section and tell me how they interpret it.....i can not ask if they own a car-but can ask if they have reliable transportation to work.....i have a list of allowed and not allowed questions in a handbook that is at least 7 or 8 pages.....

all that said, i have used my gut when hiring people, and have passed over some well qualified applicants because of a "feeling" i had.....and i have hired some that even my boss questioned my wisdom on, and they have become most awesome workers for ME, even thought their personality may not work with another manager.

all of this said, i think folks should be allowed to hire who they want to, for whatever reasons they choose to............i do that, and just make sure my thought process is kept in my mind and not written down anywhere-because that paper becomes a legal document that could come back to bite me in the butt.

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:54:39 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

What about non-corporations? A mom-and-pop store, a night-club?


Both of those are licensed. In *theory*, a privately owned sole-proprietorship could just do what they cared to, but if you're planning on collecting sales tax, you're going to need to agree to the regs at some point.

Night Clubs are regulated by Alcohol and Beverage Control, so you're going to need a license for that, too...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:55:07 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How much freedom should an employer have in choosing their employees?


this is going to open a can of worms i bet



Now, I never look at that when coming up with a topic.......

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 6:59:04 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		I was always under the opinion as long as you dont buy into the EOE stuff, you can do what you want.....

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 7:03:27 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Why should any citizen have to give up their inalienable rights, just because they choose to make their living in an area which requires them to employ other people?

In the world according to sooooooome people , musicians would be told by the government what other musicians they must hire for their band, instead of factoring in things like talent, stage appearance and so forth.
Sport teams would have to hire on what, a first come first hired basis?

Or we could stick with the B.F.O.Q. standards that are in place now, and let private citizens have the personal freedom to spend their money as they see fit.

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 7:41:23 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Why should any citizen have to give up their inalienable rights, just because they choose to make their living in an area which requires them to employ other people?


Is your contention that the licensing of activities of any sort by the State is wrong?

I'm not sure if I'd disagree to that...


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 7:48:12 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		It is my contention that your hypocrisy has backed you into a corner, and now you have no choice but to avoid that by pretending I said something I never said.

Sad, really.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 7:57:44 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Whilst theyre not coming to work for me to make friends, if they can be friends its always a plus.


Ironically enough, I took a temp contract job assembling high end servers for a now defunct computer company.  During my interview process with the staffing agency, they told me flat out that I was going to be on for no more than two weeks, 16-20 hour days, and working straight through the duration of the contract.

No problem.... this is a cash cow.

I took two weeks off my regular job, so I was getting vacation pay AND some crazy amount of money for my sleeplessness (literally napped in my truck between shifts).

I digress.

During the day, me, being the personable and "talk to anyone" kind of person I am, befriended a nice chap from New Hampshire.  We shared a lot of common interests, so chatting with him helped the time fly by. 

By the end of the second day, he and I were pulled aside by the floor supervisor, Helga Von Shrapnel of the SS Party.  We were verbally assaulted in front of EVERYONE for "talking to each other".

The company apparently had rules in place that forbade employees on the floor from talking to one another, because those two employees would talk about hourly wages, etc., and "studies show" that when employees start talking, they start conspiring to steal from the company.

I was quite offended by that.


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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:02:15 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

It is my contention that your hypocrisy has backed you into a corner, and now you have no choice but to avoid that by pretending I said something I never said.

Sad, really.


Did you state that you thought it was wrong for an EMPLOYER to have to obey State Regulations in order to engage in Commerce?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:08:37 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Nope, I said private citizen having inalienable rights of freedom of association, and freedom to spend their money as they saw fit within the BFOQ's,  but thanks for the spin. 

Last chance to address what I really said.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/4/2007 8:09:46 AM >

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:09:59 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, what's the difference? Do you contend there is any practical difference between flesh-and-bloods and Artificial Legal Entities, which would create a distinction w.r.t. the State Licensing authorities?

in other words... IF any entity SELLS any tangible physical property, they must collect and remit sales tax.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/4/2007 8:11:05 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:10:31 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		ive had a job where discussing salaries was grounds for firing, working for ross perot at eds back in the 80's......

but no talking? sounds like they have never had any one stay more than 2 weeks-lol-maybe its not policy, just the reality of being buttholes...

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:15:38 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I took a temp contract job assembling high end servers for a now defunct computer company.


Ahhh yes, the old 'Special Projects' .
Around here they hire security guards to stand at each table and enforce the rules on the temp workers.
(I understand from some friends that the guards have to provide their own mirrored sunglasses though.)

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:24:26 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
quote:

e t
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

ive had a job where discussing salaries was grounds for firing, working for ross perot at eds back in the 80's......

but no talking? sounds like they have never had any one stay more than 2 weeks-lol-maybe its not policy, just the reality of being buttholes...


I think EVERY employer has a "no talking about wages" policy these days.... although the other day when one of my two bosses asked me what I was making and I told him, he rolled his eyes and said he was going to speak to the big boss because I am "worth at least twice that"...

I think due to the sweatshop-like conditions, the turnover there was VERY high.  I did try to get signed on for another two weeks (I made close to $8k those two weeks), but it was only a once-in-a-lifetime deal.


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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:29:41 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Nope, I said private citizen having inalienable rights of freedom of association, and freedom to spend their money as they saw fit within the BFOQ's, but thanks for the spin.

Last chance to address what I really said.


The State is designed to entrap people into voluntarily agreeing to give up unalienable rights.

You got a Driver's License, don't you?

Well, when you signed the application, you gave up your RIGHT to use your personal property ( your vehicle ) for the privilege of having a license...

There's a supposed benefit being that you can more easily apply for liability insurance, and the companies can keep track of people better, I guess.

Make sure you put on your seat belt! ( Damn You Ralph Nader!!! )



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Hiring employees: personal freedom vs discrimination - 7/4/2007 8:34:00 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

I think EVERY employer has a "no talking about wages" policy these days.... although the other day when one of my two bosses asked me what I was making and I told him, he rolled his eyes and said he was going to speak to the big boss because I am "worth at least twice that"...

I think due to the sweatshop-like conditions, the turnover there was VERY high.  I did try to get signed on for another two weeks (I made close to $8k those two weeks), but it was only a once-in-a-lifetime deal.



ive worked for the govt too long to realize that i guess.....heck my salary is posted on the web and raises approved by the state......whoooohooooo ima gettin 3% more effective july 1......

but i do love my job......its lovely to look forward to work.....i cant remember the last bad day i had there....

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to instynctive)
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