RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (Full Version)

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dragone -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/6/2007 2:46:00 PM)

Hello FatDomDaddy; You can't fix something that is not broke. Archer Daniels Midlands, Cargill, are subsidised by the USof A, to the tune of Hundreds of Millions, if not Billions of dollars; and now, they will get the subsidy for doing nothing, or at the least for doing less.

The crop rots in the field, the consumer prices go through the ceiling; and everybody makes money. When you have your own government causing starvation, loss of jobs, depleting an essential industry, like none are essential, what to you call that government...please...somebody give it a name.



philosophy -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/6/2007 3:30:07 PM)

.......almost a fast reply, but just picking on Popeye 'cos he's easy to quote......

"And you're also correct about prices rising.
That's capitalism as well."

...actually isn't that inflation? Too much of which will cripple any economy?

"Paying your employees well is just good business and good for the economy. People who make $30 an hour buy houses, cars, furniture, appliances etc.
People who make $8 an hour don't buy much of anything beyond subsistance level."

......seems to me that there is a line missing.....along the lines of 'people who make $1000 an hour wouldn't miss $150 off that"
Decreasing the gap between the most highly paid and the lowest paid doesn't have to just mean increasing the lower paid people. If the very highest took a relatively small pay cut then those lowest on the totem pole could be paid enough without hitting inflation. 





Vendaval -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/6/2007 11:23:29 PM)

I heartily agree with you, popeye.  People on minimum wage barely can afford rent, food
and what ever other stuff they need at thrift stores, garage sales, flea markets and dollar stores.
 
People earning better wages stimulate the economy by purchasing goods and services.
How simple is that to understand?


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Paying your employees well is just good business and good for the economy. People who make $30 an hour buy houses, cars, furniture, appliances etc.
People who make $8 an hour don't buy much of anything beyond subsistance level.



dragone -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 9:20:00 AM)

You guys just don't get it do you. The system is not broke, there is no need to adjust and fix anything, it is working perfectly fine. How else can the producers, corporate enities, make their vast profits. Raising income levels of the bottom rung strata is not in their, the corporations, best interest. If you can get the wages even lower than prevailing wage, the system works even better. The government is the handmaden of Industry's elite.

Now,when you start to sling your arrows, remember this is a repulican government; however, just lately a dem congress, so you can start blaming the dems. Lest we forget, however, Clinton had a republican congress, and we didn't mind blaming his government.

Okay, now hurl your arrows.



Sinergy -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 9:28:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

But higher wages will raise prices along the line, ultimately hitting us in the pocket at the checkout stand.
Or should there be another farm subsidy by the Fed Gov to pay for the higher wages and training of American workers?




What is the cost to National Security of being dependent on other nations for essential materials and labor?




The arms manufacturer the DOD uses to make them farmed out building the clip for the M-16 to the Chinese.

Now each soldier has to file the damn thing down to get it to work correctly.

Sinergy



popeye1250 -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 11:33:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

.......almost a fast reply, but just picking on Popeye 'cos he's easy to quote......

"And you're also correct about prices rising.
That's capitalism as well."

...actually isn't that inflation? Too much of which will cripple any economy?

"Paying your employees well is just good business and good for the economy. People who make $30 an hour buy houses, cars, furniture, appliances etc.
People who make $8 an hour don't buy much of anything beyond subsistance level."

......seems to me that there is a line missing.....along the lines of 'people who make $1000 an hour wouldn't miss $150 off that"
Decreasing the gap between the most highly paid and the lowest paid doesn't have to just mean increasing the lower paid people. If the very highest took a relatively small pay cut then those lowest on the totem pole could be paid enough without hitting inflation. 





Philosophy, and (that) is called "socialism."



cyberdude611 -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 11:35:18 AM)

Capitalism at this point is not working on the mega-corporate level.

Did you know it costs less than $5 to make that Nike running shoe? Now consumers in America pay how much for it? $60 or $80? How much does the worker over in Asia make? $1.50 a day. So somone is making a TON of profit off the labor.
Its the same kind of thing with major corporations in America. The corporations do not look at cheap labor as a way to provide cheap prices to the consumer. It might be a few dollars cheaper in order to snuff out smaller companies (like what Wal-Mart does all the time). But the fat cats are not passing the savings on to the consumer....instead they pad the bottom line of the corporation and their own bank accounts. This is why they lobbyied congress hard to pass an immigration bill that would guarantee their flow of slave labor will continue. They wanted assurances that the federal government wasn't going to hurt their profits.

When the feds make it illegal to hire illegal immigrants, the corporations either have to raise prices or they have to take a pay cut. Which do you think they want to do?

Now I am the biggest supporter of capitalism there could be. But there is good capitalism and bad capitalism. And we are all right now increasingly becoming a victim of bad capitalism. America needs to become more self-reliant. And we need to throw these free trade agreements down the toilet. Agreements like NAFTA have done nothing but hurt American workers.



popeye1250 -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 11:54:25 AM)

Cyber, it is and has been for a long time now been illegal to hire illegal aliens. (U.S. Code Title 8 Chap 12.)
The problem is that that Bush Administration is not enforcing that law.
How can our laws mean anything if we don't enforce them?
I'm a supporter of capitalism too.
The only problem is that what is happening today is not capitalism, I don't know what you'd call it.
But, it reminds me of the great "Robber Barons" of 1880-1910.
When you have Bill Gates in front of Congress saying he wants "unlimited" H1B visas something is very wrong.
When do you or me get to go in front of congress to express our views?
All those corporations want to outsource labor and plant to foreign countries yet they still expect access to our markets!
And you're very right about things like "Nafta", they need to go!
If The People were to vote on things like Nafta, the "U.N.", Nato, GATT, etc we'd be out of them tommorrow morning.



dragone -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 1:18:02 PM)

Cadillacs are built in China, what's so wrong with GM making a profit. So are the other major car manufactures, they are in business to make a profit. Get hold of a world Trade Show convention catalog, see just what goods are produced in China. ie.  Shepler's, imports almost 95% of their cowboy stuff from china, Pakistan, Mexico, Korea, etc; imagine, cowboy boots made in China. Walmart is 98% China stuff.  99cents only store ship in canned stuff from all over the world, almost -0- from US. Yet, you all think the American consumer is going to want to change all that, and pay higher prices, and really cares. If it's cheap they'll buy it, no matter where it comes from.

The American consumer, in general, doesn't care where the stuff comes from, just get it to me cheap, also the gov. is in busness and national security is a matter of market share. If the rifle clips don't work; so what,...the life of a soldier is just fodder for the cannon any how,  replaceable, dosn't mean a thing.

Years ago, when a student, I would take 'Photo excurisons'; roam the city and docks, taking pictures. I happed upon 2 semi- flatbed trucks. Thereon was a load, metal, olive drab containers. So, thinking nothing of any importance could be with these containers, I just thought the semis looked interesting; thus I photographed the trucks. Upon closer inspection, imprinted on the containers, were, some numbers, and in one section: Align mark on Container with Mark on Body; and the stenciled wording: Handle With Care, Reuseable Container.

No, I don't hasve a URL to point to.

Illegals are needed in this country, that's why this administration doesn't enforce the laws. The gov. wants it just as it is. Why, The Employer doesn't have to pay a decent wage, no benefits, no vacation, no union problems, no health care problems, no insurances, no retirement, So, what are you guys talking about? It is in the best interest of the corporation and gov. to maintain the status quo.

Gatt and Nafta legistlation was hand carried by Bush sr. to get it all passed, it was in planning and processing at least 2 years before Clinton signed it into law within a few months into his first term.

The oil prices are going through the roof...why is that, no public info messages to conserve, no exploring alternative sources, no tapping into our own reserves. And you people think you have a government;> a government you can fix.

Check out the: www.burjdubai.com   and run the other related sites, see just where your US is headed.  What is ahead for the future. Check the Saudi sites; do some research.

OR....you can banter the value of Nike over Keds, complain about wetbacks taking jobs that no white guy wants. Or.. heap insults upon one another, make snide remarks,... and if you are bored  with all that, bash Chealse.




cyberdude611 -> RE: "U.S. Wheat Farmers Face Grim Harvests as Immigration Bill Dies" (7/7/2007 3:41:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Cyber, it is and has been for a long time now been illegal to hire illegal aliens. (U.S. Code Title 8 Chap 12.)
The problem is that that Bush Administration is not enforcing that law.
How can our laws mean anything if we don't enforce them?
I'm a supporter of capitalism too.
The only problem is that what is happening today is not capitalism, I don't know what you'd call it.
But, it reminds me of the great "Robber Barons" of 1880-1910.
When you have Bill Gates in front of Congress saying he wants "unlimited" H1B visas something is very wrong.
When do you or me get to go in front of congress to express our views?
All those corporations want to outsource labor and plant to foreign countries yet they still expect access to our markets!
And you're very right about things like "Nafta", they need to go!
If The People were to vote on things like Nafta, the "U.N.", Nato, GATT, etc we'd be out of them tommorrow morning.


The government can't even follow its own laws. Did you hear about the report that showed that illegal aliens are being hired by the federal government? And its not only low-level jobs either. We are talking about even the FBI and CIA hiring people who are not even supposed to be in this country.

This country has probably the most lax immigration policy in the western world. It seems as if the government just doesn't care if someone is here legally or not.



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