RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/10/2007 10:09:49 PM)

Rich, all I'm saying is that this guy is "allowed" to tag along....The question one should ask is "why?"  I gaurantee that if he reported something negative or started questioning what he was told...He would probably be removed....Or they might not be "watching his back" so closely.

It is a distinct possibility and one that I feel should not be discounted so quickly.


Off to bed....Good night all.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/10/2007 11:58:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Rich, all I'm saying is that this guy is "allowed" to tag along....The question one should ask is "why?"  I gaurantee that if he reported something negative or started questioning what he was told...He would probably be removed....Or they might not be "watching his back" so closely.

It is a distinct possibility and one that I feel should not be discounted so quickly.


Off to bed....Good night all.


Yeah.  Sure Yon is a willing tool of the US Army propaganda machine. He just sings hosannas to them:

Al Sahab: The Cloud

While many blame the media for the estrangement, part of the blame rests squarely on the chip-laden shoulders of some key military officers and on the often clueless Combined Press Information Center (CPIC), who don’t manage the media so much as manhandle it. While many if not most of the Public Affairs officers are professionals dedicated to their jobs, a few well-placed incompetents cripple our ability to match and trump al Sahab. By enabling incompetence, the Pentagon has allowed the problem fester to the point of censorship.

...

LTC Johnson, “the most quoted man in Iraq,” ... (Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson, the Director of the Combined Press Information Center in Baghdad who controls all Iraq embeds) ... has repeatedly gone on record decrying the lack of press coverage in Iraq, all while alienating the last vestiges of any press willing to spend month after month in combat with our people. Meanwhile, Johnson has become a major media source while squeezing out nearly all other voices. Instead of courting the media in an attempt to win the war for “hearts and minds,” the trend seems to be stiff-arming it at the expense of our troops and their families. LTC Barry Johnson may be winning all his petty personal battles but he is losing the media war. The Pentagon has been notified but has failed to rectify the situation.

If you spent a little time reading his site, you might find that he spends a much time condemning the stupidity as he does reporting the truth.

But none of that matters, if someone already have a point of view, and wants to paint him as some kind of gollum in thrall.

***

How he ended up in Iraq:

Tabula Rasa

FirmKY



Sinergy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 1:30:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    You've hit the nail squarely on the head DG.  What I've grabbed (below) is exactly the conversation I think is going on now that the suits are back at work.  IF even a fraction of the horrors reported so far are accurate and gain wide exposure, there would be a powerful impact. 

  Which do you think they'll decide is more important, the story, or the minds the story might change? 

  Shit, people might start thinking we aren't the bad guys...



quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Tell me that the story about al qaeda decapitating children does not in some way embolden our position..



Exactly.  which should lead all to question the validity of such reporting....It might be true...However, there is an equal...And I do mean "equal" chance that he is being used , willingly or not, to promote the need for this war to continue. 


Weird, I said the exact same thing (question everything being reported from Iraq) to him that you did, domiguy, and he rushed to attack me for being un-American.

Must be the kilt.

Sinergy




Level -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 4:25:25 AM)

Okay, here's some of what Yon says about the reporting from over there:

quote:

While our enemies have "journalists" crawling all over battlefields to chronicle their successes and our failures, we have an "embed" media system that is so ineptly managed that earlier this fall there were only 9 reporters embedded with 150,000 American troops in Iraq. There were about 770 during the initial invasion.

quote:

 
Many blame the media for the estrangement, but part of the blame rests squarely on the chip-laden shoulders of key military officers and on the often clueless Combined Press Information Center in Baghdad, which doesn't manage the media so much as manhandle them


quote:

My experiences with the U.S. military as a soldier and then as a writer and photographer covering soldiers have been overwhelmingly positive, and I feel no shame in saying I am biased in favor of our troops


quote:

I believe now as I did then: The government of the United States has no right to send our people off to war and keep secret that which it has no plausible military reason to keep secret. After all, American blood and treasure is being spent. Americans should know how our soldiers are doing, and what they are doing while wearing our flag. The government has no right to withhold information or to deny access to our combat forces just because that information might anger, frighten, or disturb us.


quote:

This information blockade is occurring at the same time that the Pentagon is outsourcing millions of dollars to public relations firms to shape the news. This half-baked effort has the unintended consequence of putting every reporter who files a positive story under scrutiny as a possible stooge.



http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/844nigml.asp

So. He admits bias, but he seems quite even-handed. He critiques where he finds fault, whether with "the enemy", or with his own countrymen.
 
Bias..... I am not sure that I know anyone, certainly here at CM, that is not biased, so I would keep an eye on Mr. Yon, but on everyone else, as well.



Real0ne -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 4:59:09 AM)

lol you edited the part i commented on!  LOL



Level -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 5:24:13 AM)

Which part, RO? [:D] I think I only added the part about bias at the end.
 
And when I say we're biased, I don't mean people can't give honest and accurate statements, obviously. Even someone incredibly level, like myself [8|], is biased.



domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 7:48:05 AM)

Firmhand it's one thing to slap the hand that feeds you and then turn right around and suck it's dick.  As I have stated Yon is there because he is going to portray the troops in a positive light....From the missions to their actions....If someone says it's al qaeda ....Then by God, it has to be al qaeda!  He is not going to question that type of material.

I don't think I'm taking a huge leap...From what he says about his bias...As interesting as I find his photos and his reporting I am wise enough to realize I might not be receiving the "whole story."

Why would an American want to question anything that is in print? It's truly an UnAmerican trait. Thank God we don't have the right to question our government or what we read. 

I'm confident that our troops are heroes. They have been thrust into a no win situation and I think it is nice to see the pictures that Yon provides.....Beyond the pictures I don't hold his reports with too much credibility.

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2006/09/15/04
The Trouble With The Truth
September 15, 2006
After an investigation into U.S. propaganda efforts in Iraq, the Pentagon decided the Lincoln Group’s efforts were not illegal. Last month, the military again called for bids for a two-year, twenty-million dollar contract for help conveying its side of the story. Bob speaks with Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson, spokesman for the Multi-National Forces in Iraq, about waging the war of message management.

BOB GARFIELD: I want to refer to a remark made by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld recently, I believe, to the American Legion. He observed that a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient got one-tenth the coverage of a soldier punished for misconduct in Iraq. Does the Pentagon not grasp the central fact that good news is, by definition, not much in the way of news? That no one reads the paper to learn about the train that didn't derail?
LIEUTENANT COLONEL BARRY JOHNSON: Well, that's always a frustration, isn't it? We see people out here doing great things every day, and we want it to be a part of the news, and we want them to get recognition. And [it's] part of the great frustration among military leaders, to see those things go unnoticed when the bombing of the day does make the news.

The rest of this article is rather interesting.

I have no problem with wanting to show that our soldiers are for the most part acting in a noble and heroic fashion.  It is something that is not reported on enough....Unfortunately, it is what we expect from them, but that doesn't mean that their stories should go untold.

The problem lies where the military has a vested interest in the bigger story....They are in the war business and it behooves them to make sure that the stories generated contain facts of the evil doings of the enemy on the battlefield....I have no idea if the village was slaughtered by al qaeda....Isn't there a possibility that it was Sunni or Shia retribution?  I have read many accounts where al qaeda has killed people involved in joining the army or the police force to try and destabilize their newly formed gov't....But what was there agenda for wiping out the village? Where was the explanation?  Maybe I missed it...I'm not being smug.

We are there to fight the "War on Terror."....A story has no benefit unless it is accurate or intentionally slanted in that direction...So it would be wise for our military to find as many people(reporters) possible that will simply take their pictures and not question the story that is spoon fed to them.

I think this only stands to reason....The military wants their story told....And from what I have seen thus far when it has comes to this "war" the truth has always seemed to be the first casualty.




domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 7:51:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

If you spent a little time reading his site, you might find that he spends a much time condemning the stupidity as he does reporting the truth.

But none of that matters, if someone already have a point of view, and wants to paint him as some kind of gollum in thrall.

***


I spent a great deal of time on his site....And by you posting a snippet where he criticizes LIEUTENANT COLONEL BARRY JOHNSON for not getting the media involved in the war effort......So Yon can now help the military win the "Hearts and Minds" of the people back home.....I don't want to have my "Heart and Mind Won."....I just want the fucking truth!!!!



m0rgan -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/11/2007 8:42:35 AM)

nope, this is how you ended up in iraq;

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5799

led by the nose, by criminal scum fooling the easily fooled, and still doing it, and their sons will be still doing it when you are dead!



TheHeretic -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 11:00:20 AM)

       Ok.  The topic is awake, might as well end the hijack elsewhere...



Level -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 11:03:10 AM)

Hey, is this the NFL thread?....... [:D]



domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 11:27:17 AM)

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2007-02-05#tv4
New York Times To Retain Embed Status in Iraq
Contrary to earlier reports, a New York Times reporter and his cameraman did not lose their embed status after the newspaper ran footage on its website of an apartment raid in Baghdad that resulted in the shooting death of one soldier, the U.S. Army's director of public relations has told the Columbia Journalism Review, contradicting an earlier statement by a lower-ranked Army spokesman. The Times, however, agreed to issue an apology to the family of the soldier who was seen being removed from the building on a stretcher. The CJR commented on its website Sunday: "We feel that the video and photos were taken at a respectful enough distance, obscuring any truly disturbing images. Add to this the fact that the benefit of having this powerful story told was so great, in terms of our understanding of what is happening in Iraq, and it seems fair to conclude that there shouldn't have been any second guessing about news judgment here."


So from Michael Yon's story I googled "massacre at Baqubah" to see if I could come up with anything credible....I found this...

http://www.denverpost.com/war/ci_6398851

Now in this article there is mention of al qaeda....Yet much of the attacks seem to be still on the lines of the ill will  between Sunni and Shiites...And yet the possibility of a connection to the on going hatred  between these two tribes was never even considered to be a possiblity by Michael Yon.

Hereis an article that talks about U.S troops moving into the same area and a massacre that has taken place....But in this case, the author makes a direct reference that one set of villagers being Shiites were killed by Sunnis....

Why didn't Michael Yon at least have the stones to question this aspect of the massacre he covered....It is because it does not further our reasons for war.....it is that simple.



Owner59 -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 12:27:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am on the US side because I personally think we have better things to do with our money and our citizens than standing around in Iraq as a bunch of targets.

I consider those people who support our presence in Iraq as being opposed to the US because their hubris and ignorance is going to end up bankrupting our country and further destroying our credibility worldwide.

Clear as mud?

Sinergy



          Quite clear.  Thank you, Sinergy.  I happen to think your assessment is wrong and completely delusional, but it does explain why you are so eager to live in denial about the realities of what we would be leaving the Iraqi people to and what our premature departure would do to the world opinion you are so concerned about.


       I have continued to watch the story.  This is not the only place where the culpability of Al Qaeda has been questioned.  Yon remains the only reporter I can find who is covering it.  Perhaps when the suits get back to their offices on Monday, more will be dispatched to uncover the truth of the atrocities.  For now, Yon has framed it this way;

     What is al Qaeda but the collection of people who claim to be al Qaeda? Those responsible for murdering and burying those bodies in al Ahamir (or al Hamira) had the markers of al Qaeda, the same al Qaeda that had boastfully installed itself as the shadow government of Baqubah..... As for al Ahamir, the massacre “walks like a duck.” It happened in duck headquarters. The people here say the duck did it.
 
 
      




Bullshit! 

There`s maybe 2000 AII(al qaeda in Iraq),by every estimate.Maybe 2% or less of the insurgency.

They are not well liked there,but tolerated, because we are there.I`ve heard US commanders on the ground ,say that if we left,AII would be kicked out,and quickly.But noooo,we gotta stay.Only neo-cons have the answers.



This is a possibility that the neo-cons can`t fathom.That we`re prolonging AII`s presents in Iraq,because of this indefensible policy of "fighting them over there,so we don`t have to fight them here.(which is a ridiculous concept,and false.)

Why do we have to listen to bush and his frightened supporters?They have gotten it wrong on everything so far.
Why should we listen to anything they have to say about the war?Don`t they realize that they`ve lost all credibility,and aren`t able to "cry wolf" like before.

And who`s this mysterious force manipulating, or killing news stories? Can you name anyone,or is that loony conspiracy theory?



Owner59 -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 12:37:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

If you spent a little time reading his site, you might find that he spends a much time condemning the stupidity as he does reporting the truth.

But none of that matters, if someone already have a point of view, and wants to paint him as some kind of gollum in thrall.

***


I spent a great deal of time on his site....And by you posting a snippet where he criticizes LIEUTENANT COLONEL BARRY JOHNSON for not getting the media involved in the war effort......So Yon can now help the military win the "Hearts and Minds" of the people back home.....I don't want to have my "Heart and Mind Won."....I just want the fucking truth!!!!


John Lennon`s
"give me some truth"


no short haired-yellow bellied
son of tricky dicky
is gonna mother hubbard
soft soap me
with just a pocketful of hope
money for dope
money for rope

i'm sick to death of seeing
things
from tight lipped-
condescending -mommies little
chauvinists

all i want is the truth
just give me some truth

i've had enough of watching
scenes
of schizophrenic - ego - centric
- paranoic - prima - donnas

all i want is the truth
just give me some truth no short haired-yellow bellied
son of tricky dicky
is gonna mother hubbard
soft soap me
with just a pocketful of hope
money for dope
money for rope

i'm sick to death of seeing
things
from tight lipped-
condescending -mommies little
chauvinists

all i want is the truth
just give me some truth

i've had enough of watching
scenes
of schizophrenic - ego - centric
- paranoic - prima - donnas

all i want is the truth
just give me some truth

As poignant today ,as it was when he wrote it.



TheHeretic -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 3:53:24 PM)

      Yon does mention the sectarian violence in his dispatchs, DG, and that the group/faction/collection of gangs calling themselves Al Qaeda in Iraq stir that pot frequently.  Igniting civil war is part of their game plan to drive us out.  Try narrowing the Google search by adding the name of the village in Yon's original report and updates.  Al Hamira was what he originally gave, and Al Ahamir in a later post.  It seems that there were a few massacres in that region.



TheHeretic -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 3:59:44 PM)

      Well, Owner59, you seem to have changed your tune about the credibilty and importance of alternate media and bloggers now that we aren't talking about DailyKos anymore.  About what I expected.

     What I've suggested throughout this thread, despite the numerous attempts to drag it off into something else, is that there is something here the major media ought to look into. 



domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 5:49:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Yon does mention the sectarian violence in his dispatchs, DG, and that the group/faction/collection of gangs calling themselves Al Qaeda in Iraq stir that pot frequently.  Igniting civil war is part of their game plan to drive us out.  Try narrowing the Google search by adding the name of the village in Yon's original report and updates.  Al Hamira was what he originally gave, and Al Ahamir in a later post.  It seems that there were a few massacres in that region.


This is somewhat bullshit. Igniting civil war was not a plan but just a matter of time...We failed every step of the way to address what the potential downside of invasion would be.....They would be killing each other the moment that Saddam was removed from power whether we stayed or not....If we left, the exact same things would still  be transpiring....Would it be news worthy?  Michael Yon specifically stated that it was the work of al qaeda....He didn't tie the massacre to the long running feud in any capacity whatsoever.  It does not serve our purposes if this is not the handy work of al qaeda.....look at the poor dead children killed in a civil war...Doesn't mean shit....But once you link it to al qaeda and then make the leap of logic to suggest that possibly the parents were forced to watch....That sells bullets and lives, my friend.

Rich, it's all bullshit....And quite frankly I think you know it....Michael Yon is embedded....It is a position that is allowed...this gov't has proved time and again that they want only one story told....the one that ups the ante to promote "our war on terror."  I'm 100% confident the massacre that he reported was based upon sectarian violence....to attribute it to the work of al qaeda the you would have to ask the question why does al qaeda want these people dead.....Oh that's right, al qaeda wants to start a "Khmer rouge" brainwashing program.....They haven't the manpower nor the strength....This is sunni/shia violence nothing more nothing less....It's all bullshit. 

Anyone who puts faith in these stories has lost the ability to look at the reporting in a rational light....Who is the source? What questions are they asking? Why are they allowed to be "embedded?" Has this government been honest with the people of this Country when it comes to relaying the facts about this war? These are all good questions....I'm afraid that the answer is take these stories with a grain of salt....For, they are probably not true.

I will add one thought, It is nice to see that somone is documenting the struggles of our troops....I enjoy his photos immensely....I just wish he would keep his mouth closed, because every time it opens I hear someone elses words coming out.



TheHeretic -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 6:27:53 PM)

        No point in arguing against your convictions about the embed system.  I think it's a great improvement over the pool system in the Gulf War, and certainly better than the outright screening and censorship of news releases from the front during WWII.  As a veteran, my value priorities (see Level's thinker thread) might be different than yours when it comes to operational and tactical security for military operations.  I have no problem at all with something like President Carter's statement that no military action was planned, while the Desert One helicopters were inbound.

       American reporters don't simply wander at will over there.  They have a tendency to get abducted and occasionally beheaded for the camera when they wander off on their own.   Are you suggesting the guys who write opinion from hotel rooms in a "safe zone," based on their own pre-conceived notions and press hand-outs two or three times a day, are somehow telling the greater truth?

     Boots on the ground aren't just how you win wars, they are also how you tell the story of them.



domiguy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 6:35:19 PM)

It might be an improvement...But it only stands to reason that we are still not being delivered the whole story...I'm happy that he is spending time with the troops...It's great for the families to see their loved ones or to learn first hand what they are enduring...It is wonderful to see our troops come to the aid of each other and the Iraqis as well......As far as telling an accurate story of the larger events that surround these photos...That is another matter all together.



Sinergy -> RE: Iraqi Village Slaughtered (7/29/2007 10:54:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       No point in arguing against your convictions about the embed system. 



I said the same thing to you 4 pages ago, then I checked out of this thread.

You remind me of children who insist on believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy even  after catching their parents putting out presents and leaving money under their pillow, and being reviled by the other 3rd graders.

As I also pointed out 4 pages ago, I hope it all works out for you.

Sinergy




Page: <<   < prev  5 6 7 [8] 9   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875