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charmdpetKeira -> RE: What if: (7/13/2007 9:41:49 AM)
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Forgive me, I suppose I was being a bit more cryptic than usual.
It’s okay, I have my moments too. :)
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I'm afraid my statement was a bit more grim than just debate, and addressed our human nature to destroy ourselves.
Do you really believe it is human nature to destroy ourselves? That would be quite a paradox; wouldn’t it? I mean, are there a bunch of people out there, trying to find ways to “make it better” just for everyone to destroy it? I don’t understand the point; why not just let it all flush down the toilet?
It seems to me, quite a few people try to find ways to make things better, but as humans, we tend to fumble a lot. No?
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In a utopia everything is balanced, life and death exist but it's all controlled, natural working in perfect harmony, fly gets eaten by a spider, spider gets eaten by a bird, bird gets eaten by a cat and so on uninturrupted. Everything in nature has it's own competition, animals have thier own natural enemies against other animals, plants comepete for space and sunlight ect.
No offense, I really cringe at the word “utopia”. The reason being, I don’t believe anything involving humans will ever be perfect. We keep evolving in the things we do and how we do them and a lot of that is accomplished by trial and error. I don’t think humans can stop evolving, which also means, what may be good for one point in time, may not be at another; it calls for constant change in all areas. Doesn’t it?
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But us...no we're just a bit different, unlike other animals when I sit here on the computer i'm not worried about some other species which is faster or stronger and which wants to hunt me down and eat me. When I go to the movies I dont expect to see a shark sitting in the row behind me or a tiger roving about the street outside the cinema. (though in Vegas there is actually a slim chance of that happening at any given time.)
Quite simply we as humans have developed to a point where we have no real natural enemies in the world except ourselves, we are unique in the fact that for us, predator and prey are but the same .
This reminds me of growing up with parents who equated fear with respect. The problem with that concept, especially when used on kids like I was, eventually they get bigger and aren’t afraid anymore. While I can’t say I turned out too bad, and don’t hate them for the way things were, I have to say, when I think back on it; I tend to get really pissed off about what went on that didn’t have to be that way. Also, I have a certain amount of emotional detachment towards them. Funny, they can’t figure out why I don’t go visit much.
And I did eventually come to respect them, for things they have accomplished in their lives, but not for their roles as parents.
Anyway, my point is, fear, if it doesn’t defeat us; tends to only make us stronger and look for ways to defend ourselves.
It seems to me, in a lot of ways, we have the same basic instincts as animals, but then there are the ways in which we differ from them. Do you think if we focused on the differences, and learned to “control” (lack of a better word) them better, we might have a chance?
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Nature makes us want conflict with one another for a specific reason,
Does it? I don’t understand then, why do we get so angry when we are in a conflict? Why do we try to find happiness? Why do we become sad when we are in a conflict with someone we care for?
Personally, I would rather avoid conflict. I prefer to work things out, come to an agreement where everyone involved is treated fairly, and then move on.
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we breed like viruses, were there to be peace and no conflict, we would destroy ourselves in ways more unimaginableand chaotic than can be concieved in the sciences of warfare.
Is this because there would be too many people?
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This is nature, we must kill, we must die, that is why it has been going on so long.
Even when thinking of a garden paradise, before posting this thread, I have been at a loss on this subject. I was thinking that science would keep progressing. If we are around long enough, and it is possible, which our own natural rejuvenating abilities makes me lean toward it is, eventually we will figure out how to live longer and longer and if no one died, we would, after a while, run into over population again.
When I was studying the bible, someone told me that people would eventually live for ever but stop having UMs. I just couldn’t see that. I don’t think I would enjoy a place where there weren’t even baby animals and if nothing died; eventually even animals would have to stop breeding; right?
So now, I’m wondering if the phrase “live for ever” actually means something other then what we relate it to. I’m still thinking on it.
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It's not conscious choice, if that was true we would have been living in a utopia for millenia, so thats the meaning of my statement, Utopia is balanced nature...and we have been balancing ourselves for quite some time. And until some other animal comes along which gives us a run for our money, that we as humans can say we compete with, call a natural enemy, it will always be this way.
Does this mean you do not see a balance in humans; or that we don't strive to find it? Could it be that we do balance, but at extremes? Does needing a "regulator" other then human, mean that no human has control over their self? Perhpas not enough?
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Of course, I could just be a nutty bastard.
*smiles* It’s all good. ;) Thank you for the clarification.
Sincerely,
k
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