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Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 5:10:48 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Beach wrote something on another thread that prompted me to recall a discussion I had about a week ago with a friend of mine.
quote:

Some people are happy with masturbatory fantasy and never need more.


This friend of mine has certain kinks that fall more within the realm of fetishes then BDSM, but nevertheless, quite kinky. Since he knows that I live a kinky life, I am one of his confidents on these matters, which is fine because I do have affection for this friend and I do enjoy our conversations.

The thing is, he admitted the other day that he didn't want this within a relationship because it would mess with the power balance and normalcy (his opinion). I asked him then what would he do 5 years into a vanilla marriage. His answer was "watch a lot of porn about it and masturbate". The answer left me a little perturbed. My guess is that he is not completely comfortable with his kink and on some levels wants to ignore the possibility of living it out.

Now he is a highly intelligent man who will figure it out for himself. And I am not a therapist and I'm not about to start playing one. But there is a part of me that wants to help him work this out. Then again, another little voice inside my head tells me to just let it be.

See I've always jumped in with both feet when it has come to exploring my kink and so I have a hard time wrapping my head around his perspective. Though I will never likely share his perspective, I would very much like to understand it. I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, and points of view.

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 5:36:48 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry I don't get it either. It's a very common thing for people to hide what they consider not acceptable in society, even in bdsm society. I have kinks and desires that I don't discuss openly because of how "taboo" they are even here.

However, unlike most people, I do not INTERNALIZE that sense of taboo, I don't hide it from myself, I don't repress it from myself.

Breaking away from a socially acceptable behavior into a perosnally acceptable behavior takes a high level of awareness (and some lucky exposure). I'm just too stubborn not to be me.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 6:03:10 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
The thing is, he admitted the other day that he didn't want this within a relationship because it would mess with the power balance and normalcy (his opinion). I asked him then what would he do 5 years into a vanilla marriage. His answer was "watch a lot of porn about it and masturbate".


I dunno if this it will work for him. Kinky desires often prove to be rather strong, especially when suppressed or repressed. Before he marries vanilla he might want to try a year or two of ignoring kink. He might find it to be unsatisfactory - which would be useful knowledge before he gives vows to another.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 6:34:36 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

The thing is, he admitted the other day that he didn't want this within a relationship because it would mess with the power balance and normalcy (his opinion). I asked him then what would he do 5 years into a vanilla marriage. His answer was "watch a lot of porn about it and masturbate". The answer left me a little perturbed. My guess is that he is not completely comfortable with his kink and on some levels wants to ignore the possibility of living it out.


I'm not a counsellor either, nor do I play one on TV but to me this sounds like a lot of projection on your part. If he's happy with mental masturbation and feels no need to go beyond that who are you to decide that this somehow means he's not comfortable with his kink? Maybe thinking about it but not actually living it out is exactly where he's comfortable with it for whatever reason.

I'm like you in that mental masturbation isn't enough for me and I tend to jump right into things that interest me. I want to feel and experience, not just think about it.

People do lots of things that I don't get and make no sense to me. That doesn't mean they need my help "fixing" themselves or help in getting more comfortable with their kink. Everyone's journey is different and doesn't have to align with mine. Chances are if I am "perturbed" by somene else's choices it's because it's tweaking something in ME that needs addressing. It's a sign that I need to examine me, rather than trying to "fix" them so that their choices validate my own.

quote:


Then again, another little voice inside my head tells me to just let it be.


That's a very smart little voice you've got there. I'd listen to it.

quote:


Though I will never likely share his perspective, I would very much like to understand it. I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, and points of view.


Unfortunately I can't help you out there as I'm like you and don't get this perspective either. Hopefully someone can ellucidate.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 6/17/2005 6:38:54 AM >

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:11:27 AM   
Lepidoptera


Posts: 161
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline 		There is actually a significant conflict here.

Pretty much everyone agrees that if you are a pedophile, you should stick to fantasies.

Pretty much everyone agrees that if you are gay, you should go out there and try to live the way you want.

BDSM is in that grey area. Many people believe it is wrong, and others that it is perfectly natural. A person who believes it is natural will try to be content with fantasies. A person who believes it is wrong will try to lead a vanilla life.

People believe that internalized homophobia is bad. People believe that have guilt over pedophilic fantasies is good, because it keeps people from doing it.

So who's a better person? To you, you are the gay person. To another, you're the pedophile. It's all depends on your point of view.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:58:49 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I'm seeing it as behavioral economics -- let's see if I can explain it clearly. I'm guessing that your friend considers these fetishes optional rather than necessary in his relationship; therefore the perceived risk is too high of having the vanilla partner freaking out and upsetting the normalcy if he reveals them so he would rather masturbate occasionally to the porn. If the need to have those fetishes in his life increased, eventually it would outweigh the need for normalcy and so he'd decide to risk jumping in with both feet.

I'm on a caffeine buzz right now so I'm wondering how his normalcy will be if his partner finds him jerking off to fetish porn.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 9:45:36 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		"Some" fantasys are indeed best left as a fantasy.
I was in a Vanilla marrage where I waited 15 yrs for a bj I stayed in it that long because I made that commitment.
Was it frustrating YES Did it fester and bother me Most definately.
Was she willing to talk about it nope. Was it the last "tool" in her arsenal to stay married to me. Yes Did I buy it NOPE.
Many people are in a relationship that is not what they had invisioned it to be. But do to family or religious reasons or as I was, just a "commitment". They stay there and are content in their own little world. While their fantasys just keep growing.
The person you mention is to afraid to step out of his secure "coccoon" and find out.
Will he eventually perhaps, perhaps not
Can "we" worry about it. No can we be concerned for a friend that we see this happening to YES. can we be there to let them "vent" and talk YES. Can we push them out of their secure cocoon NO.
THEY have to walk out on their own.


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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 10:21:38 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The thing is, he admitted the other day that he didn't want this within a relationship because it would mess with the power balance and normalcy (his opinion). I asked him then what would he do 5 years into a vanilla marriage. His answer was "watch a lot of porn about it and masturbate". The answer left me a little perturbed. My guess is that he is not completely comfortable with his kink and on some levels wants to ignore the possibility of living it out.


People have moral values you can't judge someone for that. All you can do is be his friend and try to understand.
My dom has been divorced twice now. We have been together now twice the amount of time as he was with his first two wives. We aren't even married yet.
Both of his sisters are married each with four children. One is married to a minister.
When he first talked to the minister so many year's ago about me. He told him to forget about me I was nothing but a phase. Phases come and go. When he came back to me and told me that...I was a bit shocked but it gave me an idea of where he was coming from.
People make mistakes. Religious people though live with their mistakes. It is within their moral code. Some stand up, shake themselves off and move on.
Kind of like making a promise..and not wanting to break that promise no matter what.

Both sisters would be long ago divorced if they followed their heart instead of their morals. Just being around them and their husbands...there is no love loss there.
Yet, both continue to stay. Both believe divorce is not the answer to anything..and both believe god will condemn them if they got one.
So, they sit unhappily for the rest of their lives....serving god.

Make sense of it if you'd like its been years and I still don't get it. Then again I believe god will watch over us even if we stumble from time to time. I guess they don't.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 11:20:55 AM   
asissyforher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: iowa now..maybe move soon.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Sorry I don't get it either. It's a very common thing for people to hide what they consider not acceptable in society, even in bdsm society. I have kinks and desires that I don't discuss openly because of how "taboo" they are even here.

However, unlike most people, I do not INTERNALIZE that sense of taboo, I don't hide it from myself, I don't repress it from myself.

Breaking away from a socially acceptable behavior into a perosnally acceptable behavior takes a high level of awareness (and some lucky exposure). I'm just too stubborn not to be me.
[/quote


i agree--too mule headed too

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 1:31:45 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I can't speak for female subs here, but I do have experience with the boys. I think there are two ways to look at this. The first is that a boy is, indeed, not comfortable with his kink, and so he hides and and gets his satisfaction where he can, i.e. internet porn, books, magazines and self-gratification. On the other hand, there are those who just enjoy it for an extra-erotic experience at times. They are fantasies, and once they have worked through the fantasy, they can put it aside. Maybe for a week, maybe for a month, maybe for 6 months. It is not so important.
We do see people get into a fix though when they don't face the need, no matter how seldom it seems to crop up. Suddenly they neeed it more, and more, and they are not satisfied with the vanilla in their life, and begin to go behind the back of a spouse, or any significant other, to seek out Pros, sneak out to fetish parties and clubs when it is safe, or start dialing the telephone to call someone like Me every week. Something that begins as a harmless, once in a while activity, could end up being hurtful to the individual and to the other people who are now involved in his life.
I agree that if this is a part of his life, then the best idea might just be to try to spend 2 years without it. Then judge how important it is. Can you really go without it? Or is it a more important part of your sexuality than you want to admit? Or one could completely throw themselves into the lifestyle and then see in a year or two that it is not that important at all. It could save some grief in the end.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:02:52 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
...this sounds like a lot of projection on your part. If he's happy with mental masturbation and feels no need to go beyond that who are you to decide that this somehow means he's not comfortable with his kink? Maybe thinking about it but not actually living it out is exactly where he's comfortable with it for whatever reason.

But that's the thing, which I seem to have left out, is that he's pretty miserable about it. He sees having the desires that he does as a curse. It's quite negative actually.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
That doesn't mean they need my help "fixing" themselves or help in getting more comfortable with their kink. Everyone's journey is different and doesn't have to align with mine.

I couldn't agree with you more! Which is why I'm not looking for advice on how to help him. I'm looking for people to help me gain insight on his perspective to better understand him. He can't seem to explain to me what is going on in his mind and I'm not one to pry too much. That is why I posed this question to people who might have gone through something similar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
Chances are if I am "perturbed" by somene else's choices it's because it's tweaking something in ME that needs addressing. It's a sign that I need to examine me, rather than trying to "fix" them so that their choices validate my own.

You misunderstood the point of my post obviously. Again, my original instinct is to say "live your kink and be free" but my rational voice always trumps the emotional voice, well *almost* always ;) I have absolutely no intention of *fixing* him and I'm not sure where you got that from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Though I will never likely share his perspective, I would very much like to understand it. I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, and points of view.

Unfortunately I can't help you out there as I'm like you and don't get this perspective either. Hopefully someone can ellucidate.

Hopefully! That is the exact reason I posted this post!

- LA


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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:09:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lepidoptera

There is actually a significant conflict here.

Pretty much everyone agrees that if you are a pedophile, you should stick to fantasies.

Pretty much everyone agrees that if you are gay, you should go out there and try to live the way you want.

BDSM is in that grey area. Many people believe it is wrong, and others that it is perfectly natural. A person who believes it is natural will try to be content with fantasies. A person who believes it is wrong will try to lead a vanilla life.

People believe that internalized homophobia is bad. People believe that have guilt over pedophilic fantasies is good, because it keeps people from doing it.

So who's a better person? To you, you are the gay person. To another, you're the pedophile. It's all depends on your point of view.


That is a very interesting post Lepidoptera. I thank you for it. I will share with you that one of his main kinks is infantilism. He wants to be treated like a little boy by an adult female caretaker. When he is up to talking about it, he does get a twinkle in his eye. Then at other times, he doesn't want to talk about it at all. I have decided not to mention it unless he does. For the record, he has never lived this particular fantasy out with someone.

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:11:15 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

I'm wondering how his normalcy will be if his partner finds him jerking off to fetish porn


Omg! He keeps his porn collection under lock & key! He is very paranoid about it. There is definitely a little shame.

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:13:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

People have moral values you can't judge someone for that.


I don't judge him. I'm trying to understand him.

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/17/2005 7:16:07 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

agree that if this is a part of his life, then the best idea might just be to try to spend 2 years without it. Then judge how important it is. Can you really go without it?


See he does live without it. Which is his rationale that he says he'll never really need to live it out.

Once again, I need to stress that I'm not trying to intervene with his personal decision. I'm simply looking for perspectives. (This last comment is not addressed to you Dusty)

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/19/2005 9:02:10 AM   
Priceless


Posts: 22
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline 		I think you should respect his decicion (sp?)
When he is ready to come out he will come out, i think that the only thing you can do about it is to support him in what he wants and help him realise that he can come out safely, that if he can.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/19/2005 10:40:38 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Priceless

I think you should respect his decicion (sp?)
When he is ready to come out he will come out, i think that the only thing you can do about it is to support him in what he wants and help him realise that he can come out safely, that if he can.


Where on earth did you get the notion that I did not respect his decision? Seriously.

I think the simple fact that I am asking for others to help me understand his perspective is an indication that I have quite a bit of respect for my friend and that I do wish to understand him more.

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/20/2005 4:59:15 PM   
dragonofjapan


Posts: 91
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline 		Sounds like a life half lived

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She who serves truly rules

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but by the things which take our breath away

Honor is not making good choices,
it is dealing with the consequences.

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/20/2005 6:57:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragonofjapan
Sounds like a life half lived


But it's his life, right? He might not see it that way.

I'm actually a little dissapointed that I didn't get more perceptions. I guess you are all way too enlightened ;)

- LA

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RE: Suppressing one's kink - 6/20/2005 7:26:51 PM   
GoddessSasha


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		One persons life half lived is anothers satisfaction perhaps?

I can only relate partially to my own experience but thats where my feelings come from. I currently only have online subs, a lot of people only see that as a "pretend" play life. They dont bother to ask why or where the need comes from they just jump and judge. Thats not my problem my only worry is that I am not hurting or confusing anyone and that I am as honest as I am able to be, sometimes that leaves me open to abuse but so be it.

I really feel for your friend LadyAngelika and for you in trying to support him in whatever way you can. It takes a big person to give support when they dont understand the feelings. What I think Im trying to say is just the fact of you being there and listening to him might actually be enough for now.

The most important thing as I see it is that if or when he decides to take things a step further you will be there consistent in your support. If you tried to tell him what to do and he did it and it all went wrong you would feel awful so I would say carry on doing what you are doing, be there as a friend and let him find his own path, even if thats one you dont follow you can still share the journey.

Not sure how much sense Im making because its nearly 3.30 am here lol

You could also give him a copy of the serenity prayer - it didnt include the word god in its original form so it could apply to anyone

grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

BB
Sasha
x

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