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Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 11:06:02 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I'm relatively new to this site but have been involved in BDSM in real time for approximately a year and a half. In that time I have often heard people claim that BDSM is a NEED - something they cannot deny or do without. More often than not I've heard this used as a way to justify infidelity against a non-kinky spouse.

While the urge may be strong at times BDSM is, for me, a want, not a need. I can live without it. I'd rather not live with out it, but I know that I can. I would never put my desire for BDSM over a primary relationship even if the person was non-kinky. I know this for a fact because I have been married to someone who is non-kinky for 11 years. After 9 years of monogamous vanilla marriage we decided to open up our relationship. It wasn't until then that I began exploring kink in earnest. I had suggested mild forms of play early in our relationship and it was patently clear that he was not interested so I didn't push it. To me that would have been disrespectful of him and of our relationship. If he asked me tomorrow to give up the kink and go back to a monogamous vanilla relationship I'd do it. It wouldn't be the easiest thing I've ever done but I'd do it. Fortunately I think he cares about me enough to not ask me to do that but you never know.

Having said all that I'm curious as to whether or not people feel their kink is a NEED or a WANT. Can it really be a NEED for anyone or is that just a way to justify what is at times reprehensible behaviour?

Your thoughts?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 11:08:55 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is how I look at it-

BDSM to me is like reading books.

I won't die if I don't read another book, but it is a large part of what makes me a rounded, full, happy person and there's really no reason not to do it.

So while it's not necessary for survival, it's necessary for me to be fully fulfilled in my life, just like reading books.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 11:17:02 AM   
asissyforher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: iowa now..maybe move soon.
Status: offline 		quite a curious question. thank you for bringing it out in the open.

is the lifestyle a need or a want?
oh lawdy. some will tell you it is a need. some will say it is a want because we all live in the world where we pay bills and buy grocery.
some will say it is both.

me? i have-to say,..yes, it IS a need because vanilla life sucks. i have-to-have someone to serve to be happy inside.

a slave


_____________________________

"still looking for a real life domme..no more plastic wannabes for me"

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 12:47:04 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
While the urge may be strong at times BDSM is, for me, a want, not a need. I can live without it. I'd rather not live with out it, but I know that I can.


Good question! I would have to say that it is a want. I do have a need to serve, but I can satisfy that need (and have) through any number of vanilla means. D/s is simply a spicy addition to my life - it gives it flavor.

quote:

Can it really be a NEED for anyone or is that just a way to justify what is at times reprehensible behaviour?


Ten years ago, I felt BDSM as a need. It was almost a physical craving. It was a need that had to be met. But even as a need it doesn't justify reprehensible behavior - there is no reason that one's desires can not be dealt with as a couple. And if a person is married, it should be.


< Message edited by onceburned -- 6/17/2005 12:48:12 PM >

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 12:57:19 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I like excitement, originality, and creativity. It is what keeps the mind and body active. Without them we wouldn't live very long. I consider this to be the same with my sex life. So yes, BDSM is a NEED as well as a WANT.
A little kink goes a long way.

It's like you said, you and your spouse have been married for 11 years and are now trying new things. Why are you decideing to add in some spanking, bondage, and such? It seems like you want to keep things in your relationship interesting. Welcome to kink.

NEXT!

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:13:52 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

It's like you said, you and your spouse have been married for 11 years and are now trying new things. Why are you decideing to add in some spanking, bondage, and such? It seems like you want to keep things in your relationship interesting. Welcome to kink.



Actually, we haven't added anything to our sex life together. As I said i my original message I tried introducing things earlier on and he wasn't interested. He still isn't. We have an open relationship where we see other people and that is where I get my kink. I've always had an interest, albeit not a burning one, but didn't pursue it until now simply because it wasn't worth ruining a good marriage over.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:17:58 PM   
extrapale


Posts: 16
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

This is how I look at it-

BDSM to me is like reading books.

I won't die if I don't read another book, but it is a large part of what makes me a rounded, full, happy person and there's really no reason not to do it.

So while it's not necessary for survival, it's necessary for me to be fully fulfilled in my life, just like reading books.


Ditto. I couldn't have put it better.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:19:15 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		I was born this way, as many are. I lived without it for the majority of My life, but I destroyed most of My relationships along the way as a result. Even when I try to take a break from BDSM in a relationship to focus on key issues that need addressing or a recovery period from extenuating circumstances, My born need to dominate and control remains blatantly obvious.

The S&M portion is a want. That is something I can live with or without. I am happiest with it, but I can go either way.

How I explain the whole thing is like having an empty spot within Me. I can try and fill it with whatever, and I have tried many things from crazy lifestyles to drugs and criminal activities along with trying to express My (at one time unexplainable) tendencies in vanilla relationships. Even religiion does not fill that hole, that longing within Me. A submissive woman makes Me feel complete. Whole. Satisfied. I am very fortunate to have one in My life that is also very intelligent, loving, caring, motivated and pretty.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:27:59 PM   
Tempestspet


Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how to answer...lol...

BDSM
Bondage
Domination (in a scene)
Sadism
Masochism

These are wants. none of these are classified as needs... basic human needs. They fullfill ones life, yes. They enrich and add to ones life. This can become very much like a need, if a person wants to be happy... and cannot be happy any other way.

I'm simply what and who I am. As a lifestyle, I lived this way before I had a name for it. I referred to myself, as John's (my Master)girl, property, etc. from... well...pretty much day 1. I didn't know any other way to put it. It's just the way it felt inside. Mind you, this was 15 yrs ago. And yes, this happened when I was 17. I just knew. I don't advise that anyone, collar.. and so on, on the first day...lol...far from it. This is how it felt to me. I didn't at the time, even know about wearing collars, and subs, slaves, the lifestyle....I didn't know anything about the "lifestyle" then.

But it didn't change anything when I discovered BDSM, and the lifestyle, and all that that entails. It's just that, at that point, I now had a name for what Master and I had been living all those years. He knew of it, he's not big on labels and stuff, and had fun grooming me, and teaching me (without my really realizing mind you *grins*) all these years. Watching me grow, and learn. He enjoyed that I naturally gravitated toward the Anne Rice books, and other kinkier faire naturally without prodding. He liked that once I discovered that there are hundreds of thousands of people living like this, feel like I do, and that I wasn't "weird". He just laughed... when I told him... and when I asked why he was laughing... he just said that he knew I would discover it when I was ready. I just laughed with him, then, remembering back all the things that happened... and understood why. And that there was other meaning for it...... I still have my moments of revelation, and it still makes him smile.

wheww... smiles..

Thank you for listening, I'm not sure I intended to write all that. But happy I did. It brings very fond memories back...

As always, I'll talk about anything I've written, or expand anywhere I can, should there be a question.


Sincerely,
Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:36:36 PM   
MaggieLynn


Posts: 48
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		In my opinion, a NEED is something you cannot live without.

Water
Food
Air

A desire or want may FEEL just as strong as a "need" but in reality, if you won't die without it it really isn't.

All of my adult life I've lived a D/s life without even knowing that that was what it was called. I've always enjoyed kinky sex, spanking, bondage and all of that, again...without even knowing there were names for it and groups that talked about it and books about it and all of that.

Would I want to give it up and live what we term as a "vanilla" lifestyle? No, not in the least. I would be miserable. But the fact is I would still survive.

(in reply to Tempestspet)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 1:49:41 PM   
asissyforher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: iowa now..maybe move soon.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tempestspet

I'm not sure how to answer...lol...

BDSM
Bondage
Domination (in a scene)
Sadism
Masochism

These are wants. none of these are classified as needs... basic human needs. They fullfill ones life, yes. They enrich and add to ones life. This can become very much like a need, if a person wants to be happy... and cannot be happy any other way.

I'm simply what and who I am. As a lifestyle, I lived this way before I had a name for it. I referred to myself, as John's (my Master)girl, property, etc. from... well...pretty much day 1. I didn't know any other way to put it. It's just the way it felt inside. Mind you, this was 15 yrs ago. And yes, this happened when I was 17. I just knew. I don't advise that anyone, collar.. and so on, on the first day...lol...far from it. This is how it felt to me. I didn't at the time, even know about wearing collars, and subs, slaves, the lifestyle....I didn't know anything about the "lifestyle" then.

But it didn't change anything when I discovered BDSM, and the lifestyle, and all that that entails. It's just that, at that point, I now had a name for what Master and I had been living all those years. He knew of it, he's not big on labels and stuff, and had fun grooming me, and teaching me (without my really realizing mind you *grins*) all these years. Watching me grow, and learn. He enjoyed that I naturally gravitated toward the Anne Rice books, and other kinkier faire naturally without prodding. He liked that once I discovered that there are hundreds of thousands of people living like this, feel like I do, and that I wasn't "weird". He just laughed... when I told him... and when I asked why he was laughing... he just said that he knew I would discover it when I was ready. I just laughed with him, then, remembering back all the things that happened... and understood why. And that there was other meaning for it...... I still have my moments of revelation, and it still makes him smile.

wheww... smiles..

Thank you for listening, I'm not sure I intended to write all that. But happy I did. It brings very fond memories back...

As always, I'll talk about anything I've written, or expand anywhere I can, should there be a question.


Sincerely,
Tempest's pet
jennifer


quote:


Would I want to give it up and live what we term as a "vanilla" lifestyle? No, not in the least. I would be miserable. But the fact is I would still survive.



yes.....but mere surviving sucks......you have to live right to feel like a human.


_____________________________

"still looking for a real life domme..no more plastic wannabes for me"

(in reply to Tempestspet)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:03:16 PM   
Tempestspet


Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		That last quote did not come from me... but Maggie Lynn. Just for clarification.

I found the relationship that would work for me. He was not my first boyfriend, and I had both healthy and unhealthy examples to go by through family and friends.

Now, if it were asked would I stay in a vanilla relationship, knowing that I could never be happy. No I wouldn't. Condemning yourself to a life of unhappiness, is not healthy. Mentally or emotionally. Even if it were "for the kids" It's not healthy for children to live in a home, where the relationship is not healthy either. So even with that added still, I would leave.

Luckily I will never be in that position. I'm thankful for that.

Tempest's pet
jennifer


edited to add: (wow I've been doing this alot lately, I think it might be contagious)
To asissforher, no one but yourself, would be taking your right away to live, and feel like a human. It still remains your choice.

< Message edited by Tempestspet -- 6/17/2005 2:04:41 PM >

(in reply to asissyforher)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:17:52 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Abe Maslow laid it out this way:

Self Actualization
Esteem
Love
Safety
Physiological

Needs in human beings form a hierarchy. When the lower level needs are satisfied, you start paying attention to the higher level needs. The converse is also true. You'll sacrifice the higher level needs to meet an unsatisfied lower level need. You'll risk your safety to get food and water. You'll sacrifice love to get safety. You may sacrifice esteem for love. And you won't even think about self-actualization until you have achieved esteem.

BDSM, for most folks, falls in somewhere in the top three. SSC is an tasit nod to the fact that safety is lower on the hierarchy than the needs normally satisfied by our D/s activities. For some people these needs get shuffled. They'll sacrifice safety, or jeapordize thier source of food for love or esteem. This usually (but not always) results in mal-adaptive behavior.

So, yes, BDSM is a need. How strong a need depends on where it falls in the hierarchy for you. If you experience it as a physiological hunger (and some folks do), and you'd risk your safety for it, then it's probably about as strong a need as there is (though in that case also probably mal-adaptive). If you cannot experience love without it, as Gloria Brame suggested, then it's pretty damn strong and will become a need for you as soon as you are fed and safe. If it's an esteem thing (being recognized as the best one on your block with a single-tail or as one of the "knowledgable people") then probably not as strong. It will only surface as a need when you have love covered somehow.

As with any generalized model of the human experience, of course, Maslow's hierarchy is a lie. It can't completely explain the way that each-and-every person approaches the world. It's a pretty good model for the vast majority of folks though.

There you go. Probably a lot more than you wanted to know about needs and wants.



< Message edited by Leonidas -- 6/17/2005 2:21:44 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:24:42 PM   
BullRhino


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		Very good question...
I sat here for a while thinking before I replied...your answers will vary. I can't help to think that its a little bit of both.

Master Troy

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:33:56 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Saying BDSM is a want, not a need, is like saying that human rights are a want, not a need, because people can (and have) survived without them. Defining "need" as "something you'll drop dead without" means that nothing beyond food and water is a need.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:41:27 PM   
FuriousAngel


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		If I was to get technical, I'd agree with what others have said with regards to the standing definitions of a need vs. a want. For the purposes of this thread, I get the impression that the question is posed with intent towards relationships, and whether a person could live happily in a vanilla relationship alone, or if the dynamics of D/s play too strong a role in creating happiness.

That being said, with regards to relationships, I'd have to say it's a need for me. I am perfectly happy without a partner. I've been in vanilla relationships with wonderful men, but I feel unsatisifed. I don't need the 'kink' in itself. I do need the kink in the relationship. My perceptions of the context you posed the question in could be mistaken. Either way, I'm stickin' with 'need', at least, 'within a relationship'! :)

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:43:32 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Tempestspet, thanks for sharing that. No questions as I think it was very clearly stated :)

(in reply to Tempestspet)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:49:01 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks Leonidas. I did consider Maslow's hierarcy of needs when I posted originally but didn't want to muddy up a simple question with too much theorizing. As an aside, I find it interesting that Maslow still seems to be the one people turn to in order to explain human motivation yet there are other theories out there to explain why people do what they do. Anyhow, thanks for injecting that into the discussion.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:52:47 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Defining "need" as "something you'll drop dead without" means that nothing beyond food and water is a need.


You have a good point and I didn't intend to define it in that way at all. However, I was speaking from personal experience and hoped that others would do the same - and many did

For myself I know that I can live a fulfilled and happy life without BDSM. Maybe that makes me more versatile or well rounded an individual or maybe that makes me not "true" as far as the lifestyle goes (and I'm not suggesting it's one or the other just tossing some possibilities out there) but I've always managed to find some happiness in whatever situation I've been in. For me, life is too short to limit my happiness to one narrow way of living. I'll make the best of it with what I've got to work with.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Need vs. Want - 6/17/2005 2:58:39 PM   
MaggieLynn


Posts: 48
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		To clarify my earlier post a bit.

I was referring strictly to the actual definations of "want" and "need".

It becomes an entirely different story when put in the context of "need in order to be happy" or "need in order to be fullfilled".

In that vein, yes.... I can say I need bdsm, the kink, the structure, the power exchange all of it in order to have a completely fullfilling relationship.

But the fact still remains, I could carry on without it and function without it if I had to...

_____________________________

~*~ Scars are just tattoos with better stories ~*~

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 20
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