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RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:00:50 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

~edited to add~ And now i want to find one that will let me call him Sgt. Skippy the Space Skunk (cuz i thought that was funnier than hell).


It makes me hot

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:01:57 PM   
DarkKnightWalkin


Posts: 9
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline 		There is an old saying: " Love is not when you find the perfect person, but rather when you see an imperfect person perfectly."

BDSM is indeed an incredibly multi-faceted realm. But it has (to me) never needed to emcompass each and every little detail right at first. And personally half the fun is working out each others likes and dislikes as we go along, instead of trying to define an established "set in stone" of rules for every little detail right at first meet * wink* By all means set hard limits and requirements at the beginning, but I think most know that limits will always be pushed (OVER TIME), and with both parties wishing for same......* wink* Absolutely no need to cover every base in the first week. That's what makes a relationship enjoyable, all the journeys of discovery...I personally think in this day and age many spend far too much time just trying to be "Politically Correct." Do what you are comfortable with and try to meet your potentials needs, up to an extreme point, anyway.

But that's just me personally.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:03:40 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


To me, a D/s relationship is two people who come together, one who is dominant because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship, one who is submissive because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship. They interact with each other from those perspectives.

It's not defined the use of honorifics in conversations, it's not defined by one's ability or lack of to speak in the third person, it's not defined by kneeling on rice, it's not defined by giving orders, it's not defined by punishment, it's not defined by one's level of creativity in creating rules. 

It doesn't have to be complicated.


Bingo.

I'm so sick of hearing "A dom doesn't do this", "a sub doesn't do this", "you can't do this" or so on.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:04:19 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		And although i did not miss the point of the thread.  What i stated is truly the only complication for me.  If ever i am in another M/s relationship, i do not want complications... hurdles and learning curves, yes.  Drama and complication.... no thanks. 

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:08:48 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic  

~edited to add~ And now i want to find one that will let me call him Sgt. Skippy the Space Skunk (cuz i thought that was funnier than hell).


I call Valyraen "Domly McDomzorz" and "my fuzzy lumpkin of love".

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:11:12 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm so sick of hearing "A dom doesn't do this", "a sub doesn't do this", "you can't do this" or so on.


Sometimes I want to just punch people in the face, but unfortanely I cant do that being the self controled, disciplined uber dominant that I am as dictacted by the Great Council of all Domly Virtues.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:14:05 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm so sick of hearing "A dom doesn't do this", "a sub doesn't do this", "you can't do this" or so on.


Sometimes I want to just punch people in the face, but unfortanely I cant do that being the self controled, disciplined uber dominant that I am as dictacted by the Great Council of all Domly Virtues.
 

And, unfortunately, the sub/slave joint council has forbidden any mere s-type to lift a hand against those with a capital letter in their title. Perhaps I can serve them to death...

Does anyone know how many ham and cheese sandwiches it takes to make a person explode?

Edited for spelling

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/8/2007 4:15:00 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:27:41 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

You have to do this, this and this to be submissive. You can't do this, this or this if you are submissive. You have to do this, this and this to be a Dominant. You can't do this, this or this if you are a Dominant.

Is any of it really necessary to have a D/s relationship? So many seem to get hung up in the outward displays, the actions, the perceived "rules", that when something happens outside of what they see as the way people must behave in order to call it dominance and submission, they then question either the validity of the relationship or the validity of the orientation of the person they are involved with.

"My _____ just did _____. Is that a proper thing for a _____ to do?"

To me, a D/s relationship is two people who come together, one who is dominant because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship, one who is submissive because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship. They interact with each other from those perspectives.

It's not defined the use of honorifics in conversations, it's not defined by one's ability or lack of to speak in the third person, it's not defined by kneeling on rice, it's not defined by giving orders, it's not defined by punishment, it's not defined by one's level of creativity in creating rules. 

It doesn't have to be complicated.


I agree that its not very complicated, but the bulk of the post I disagree with.

You go through a lot to define what a D/s relationship is or is not, but then take task with people who do the same thing?  That doesn't make sense to me.  I get what you feel a D/s relationship is and is not, so I'm not seeing how what you are saying is different from people who do say that giving someone orders/directives is inherent to a D/s relationship except that its a different opinion from yours.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:42:17 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps the "third person speakers," "rice kneelers," and "capital letter givers" find their relationship quite simple and satisfying.  Wouldn't it be the very people who ask "why it is so complicated" while belittling and mocking these same relationships be the individuals making it so complicated?

quote:

And, unfortunately, the sub/slave joint council has forbidden any mere s-type to lift a hand against those with a capital letter in their title. Perhaps I can serve them to death...


No, please, allow me - I'll even do it with a genuine smile.


(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 4:46:57 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia

Perhaps the "third person speakers," "rice kneelers," and "capital letter givers" find their relationship quite simple and satisfying.  Wouldn't it be the very people who ask "why it is so complicated" while belittling and mocking these same relationships be the individuals making it so complicated?

quote:

And, unfortunately, the sub/slave joint council has forbidden any mere s-type to lift a hand against those with a capital letter in their title. Perhaps I can serve them to death...


No, please, allow me - I'll even do it with a genuine smile.




Erin is not making fun of those who kneel in rice.

Erin is making fun of those who say you have to kneel in rice or you aren't a slave. Well, she isn't really making of them. But I sure am.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/8/2007 4:47:46 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to tricia)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:11:32 PM   
Mystique567


Posts: 273
Joined: 6/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm so sick of hearing "A dom doesn't do this", "a sub doesn't do this", "you can't do this" or so on.


Sometimes I want to just punch people in the face, but unfortanely I cant do that being the self controled, disciplined uber dominant that I am as dictacted by the Great Council of all Domly Virtues.


Is there a pamphlet out on that?

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:19:30 PM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

AquaticSub
Erin is not making fun of those who kneel in rice.


No, I'm absolutely not. I am not trying to say what people as individuals should or should not require in their relationships. I am not saying what does and does not constitute a D/s relationship. What I am saying is that one can have a very simple dynamic without all of the outward displays and still have it be just as valid as the relationship that is very strict and outwardly ritualistic. No one should question the validity of their own dynamic based upon the expectations of others. If it is working for two people...and one is dominating and the other is submitting....it is a valid dynamic.

Maybe my title for the thread was a poor choice of wording. I didn't mean to imply that one must have a dynamic that is simple. I meant that often times people complicate their relationship by holding them up and comparing them to the views of others. It is not the number of rules, the strict adherence to protocols or the outward displays that define the validity of a relationship. It is the two (or more) people involved, their expectations and the perspectives from which they come.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I'm so sick of hearing "A dom doesn't do this", "a sub doesn't do this", "you can't do this" or so on.


Uh huh...or "You're not a ____ because you do/don't do this/that".

25 years of my life I have spent in relationships where I actively worked to please my partner first and foremost. When I am in a relationship my partner is "the man of the house" in all ways. Decisions regarding what we are going to do, what we are going to have for dinner, whether or not the house gets painted or resided, what time we will go to bed, when we will have sex, what kind of sex we will have, when and how we will play, what we will view on tv, where we will go on vacation, etc., etc. are his decision to make. He leads, I follow.

When someone knocks at the door or calls on the phone selling something, my response is that they will have to speak to the man of the house....not because it is an easy way out of talking to a salesman...but because I believe that such decisions are not mine to make.

I've kept the house, done their laundry, laid out their clothes, prepared their meals, given daily massages and foot rubs, participated in whatever sexual activity they enjoyed, ran their errands, cleaned their cars and motorcycles, made their home a pleasant and welcoming place to be, hosted their parties, accompanied them to and participated in lifestyle events, cared for them in sickness, listened to them, learned from them, laughed with them and loved them, etc., etc,. Everything I did, I did from a natural place inside of me that wanted to do all I could to please and fulfill their wants and needs.

They didn't lay down a list of kinky protocols and rituals I had to follow every moment of every day. I didn't spend half my life kneeling. "Sir" wasn't something I ended every sentence with. They didn't send me to the corner to learn my lessons. I didn't have to avert my eyes and bow my head in their presence. I didn't have to pass a bunch of tests, know all of the slave positions, repeat mantras over and over in the mirror, sleep in a cage or walk around naked all day.

But if they did require any, all or more of those types of things, it would not have made me any more or less submissive and it would not have made them any more or less dominant. I was submissive to them with every fiber of my being out of love, out of respect, willingly and joyfully. I was submissive to them because it is who I am. They were dominant because that was who they were. That's what worked for us.

And yet time and time again now I have men who tell me that that's not submission, that's not D/s and I'm not a "real" submissive. Huh??? Saying "Yes Sir" a hundred times a day would make it more "real"? Kneeling? Standing in a corner? Spanking myself on a webcam maybe?

I am not saying that including any, all or more of those things is in any way wrong or bad. What I am saying is that they are not necessary or mandatory to view a relationship as one that is "real" D/s.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:46:23 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		mistoferin -
 
As much as i appreciated AquaticSub spelling it out for me - i already knew what your point was.  I also knew you weren't taking an opportunity to belittle those who do "it" differently than you do. 
 
My point was - just as you see your dynamic as valid without these - the people you speak of see their relationship as valid with them.  That seems quite simple to me.
 
quote:

And yet time and time again now I have men who tell me that that's not submission, that's not D/s and I'm not a "real" submissive. Huh??? Saying "Yes Sir" a hundred times a day would make it more "real"? Kneeling? Standing in a corner? Spanking myself on a webcam maybe? 
 
On the opposite end of the spectrum - don't we do the very same thing?  Make people explain themselves and justify the way they live their dynamic.  I see it in every doormat thread.  Every sub/slave debate thread.  Every no limit thread.  The list goes on and on.
 
edited because i'm not a catty bitch.

< Message edited by tricia -- 7/8/2007 5:50:22 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:48:40 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
But thats not the point of her post.

She's talking about two people in a relationship who are overcomplicating the relationship by trying to adhere to the standards set by others.

And thats an unneccasary overcomplication. You have to figure out who you are and what you want on a personal level and not chase after or be bothered by the people who claim your relationship isnt real because you dont do think their way.

Whether I have a long list of rituals and protocols instead of a short simple one or try and change my slave's behavior to conform to the standards of what some group of people deemed as proper slave behavior isnt a necessary complication if I dont want it to be.

She's not saying that the relationship itself is necessarily miracously easy and simple, but it doesnt have to be overcomplicated because what other people tell you you should do.



Thank you, yes that is the basic gist of what I'm trying to say.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:49:56 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

It doesn't have to be complicated.


I think for people who aren't reality-based, and are living in some fantasy world of bdsm, D/s, M/s, they get comfort in the complicated parts of it.  I believe in streamlining and making my life easier, not more difficult.


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:50:51 PM   
BabyNyla


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline 		Sometimes I read things in the forum that spark an interest in me ... people sometimes give interesting points of view when they come here trying to find out if they're right or wrong in feeling upset or jilted ... and I tell daddy about what I read and I ask him for his opinion on it ... and how he feels (because I am always a VERY curious lil bugger) and everytime he says the same thing to me ...
 
"The only people you need to worry about or be concerned about is us, you and me.  My opinion and your opinion are the only two that matters.  There isn't a rule book for D/s, so "our" way is the only way you need to worry about"
 
Sometimes I wish he'd give me his personal feelings, just for shits and giggles sake, because I am curious how he thinks and feels abotu some of the things people say.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 5:51:29 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia
quote:

Erin is making fun of those who say you have to kneel in rice or you aren't a slave. Well, she isn't really making of them. But I sure am. 


I'm not quite sure what your point was.  Personally, i only make fun of people who take on kitten personas and bat around catnip toys and believe thats reality.  We'll call it even, eh?


There isn't a point. Sometimes there is only a joke.

If people want to have a complicated relationship with a bunch of rules that is fine. That is valid for them. However it is not valid for them to apply their rules to me when I am not in their relationship. And trying to live my relationship by the rules of others, regardless of what works for me and mine, wouldn't be valid because it wouldn't be my relationship.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/8/2007 5:53:13 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to tricia)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 6:01:13 PM   
Ayanaev717


Posts: 72
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with you mistoferin. I have read many articles and books with their rules and regulations on how one should behave or act in a D/s relationship. Honestly, it can be very confusing. I say if you are in a trusting relationship it shouldn't matter what others say or wish to say about how you treat each other.

Maybe my needs are different from so and so, therefore I will do things differently. I have never fitted into the idea of normal in anything I have involved myself in. I have always been an individual and therefore...I try not to let what others think or feel move me. Sometimes it does and when it does...I step back and think about where I am. Once I am done, I go back to being me.

Some people should keep their thoughts and sometimes thoughts and feelings to themselves. But you often you can't control them can we? We can only control ourselves and not allow them power.

Those who complicate things are simply trying to conform to something that IS NOT THEM.

Truly,

A

< Message edited by Ayanaev717 -- 7/8/2007 6:02:44 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 6:17:37 PM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
But thats not the point of her post.

She's talking about two people in a relationship who are overcomplicating the relationship by trying to adhere to the standards set by others.

And thats an unneccasary overcomplication. You have to figure out who you are and what you want on a personal level and not chase after or be bothered by the people who claim your relationship isnt real because you dont do think their way.

Whether I have a long list of rituals and protocols instead of a short simple one or try and change my slave's behavior to conform to the standards of what some group of people deemed as proper slave behavior isnt a necessary complication if I dont want it to be.

She's not saying that the relationship itself is necessarily miracously easy and simple, but it doesnt have to be overcomplicated because what other people tell you you should do.



Thank you, yes that is the basic gist of what I'm trying to say.


Well, let me restate the same thing again.
IF the two people involved do not listen to what others say it will not
be difficult.
It still boils down to two people agreeing on how to live in their relationship.
It will not be complicated if they are on the same wave length.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. - 7/8/2007 6:19:03 PM   
DocTSH


Posts: 109
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		To the OP, I simply say it comes down to what fits into the dynamic.  Some might look at the relationship I have with little girl and feel that I am too strict with expectations, where other would not agree.  I dominate my submissive as I see fit, not what others feel is correct.  Hell, they don't live with us so how could they possibly know what is right or wrong for us?  I do not question whether my little girl is living to a standard of the Daddy/ Dom little girl relationship that others see as an overview....she knows her place in our relationship and I adore her for that.

_____________________________

Doc

At times like these, I think of Socrates who said, " I drank what?" -Real Genius

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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