RE: Protocol (Full Version)

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MistressSassy66 -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:10:53 PM)

I am not big on Protocols,though I like to have some sometimes.
What I dont care for is being told I have to have a Protocol.

I tried having some set in place and I am just too free of a spirit to
feel tied down to a Protocol...if that makes sense.



HardnRuff -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:15:10 PM)

without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??



Elorin -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:23:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff
without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??

Who said structure is fundamental to D/s? Protocol helps build structure, certainly. Not everyone finds it fundamental.

I know a sub whose entire protocol is summed up by this "I say, you do." It was written on a post it note by her Dom. The only contract she was ever gonna get. And they have a lovely relationship.



AquaticSub -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:26:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??


Structure of my relationship: Valyraen is in charge. I'm not.

I don't need any protocol to remember that.



kyraofMists -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:32:50 PM)

I can completely understand and appreciate that what irritates is the idea that there are "The Protocols" that have to be followed.  I see protocols as the way I do something and in my relationship they are the way in which I can do things for him that he finds pleasing.  From my perspective many protocols are personal and should be tailored to the relationship.

I also know that I have a very broad opinion of what protocols are and the vast majority are not related to kink in anyway.  The way I fold my towels, set the table, fold my clothes, etc. are all personal protocols that I have learned and adapted over the years.  Then there are the protocols that are reinforced by society, saying please, thank you, standing in lines (as someone else mentioned), etc.

Thank you for all the feedback.

Knight's Kyra



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:38:53 PM)

LOL personally I wish people would follow VANILLA protocols- men should take hats off inside, gloves need to be removed before eating, all of those manners/niceties/formalities/protocols I really place high in my life. 

So while I'm all for them in public social situations (and that have nothing to do with orientation or lifestyle choices) because they help me define my boundaries and keep things civil, when it comes to personal relationship choices, it's not for me.



Elorin -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:45:10 PM)

Vanilla protocols are considered etiquette.
Protocols, etiquette, and ritual are terms that are sometimes used interchangeably but actually have distinct meanings.

If a group says "don't touch subs without their owner's permission" as a party rule, that's a group etiquette. But etiquette includes being able to follow the rules when they change with different areas. Which means accepting that if you take your sub to a party that is "all subs are free grope opportunities" that your sub will be groped (or not going if you don't want her to be). Not trying to force everyone at the party to leave your sub alone because your personal values differ from the group.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do - but Rome is where the Romans define the rules. Not when they are visiting Paris.



KnightofMists -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:53:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

men should take hats off inside,


For me it not so much taking the Hat off when inside... which generally I do...

But it is taking the hat off when sitting at the table.   I find it extremely annoying when I sit in a Restaurant and men are wearing ball caps the like at the table... regardless of the place.  I appreciate it's their right and I am not one to push this view on them.  However, it doesn't change the fact that If I had the authority.. the hats would be off.  This view actually orginates from my Dad.  Table manners are pretty important to him.  It didn't matter who the person was... you sat at his Table.. hats came off.  First time you where asked... second time.. he took it off!  NO one made that mistake twice!



Celeste43 -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 12:57:20 PM)

Most restaurants don't have hat check rooms anymore. A baseball cap can be stuffed into a pocket but an expensive 20X Western hat needs to be put someplace safe. Which doesn't mean on the floor.



HardnRuff -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:03:01 PM)

For Me , in a Ms relation there definately has to be structure and consistency.. she has to have the structure  in the form of knowing what I expect from her on a daily basis .. And I have to be consistent in enforcing what My rules are .. If I were to let her get by with something one day and not the next then I see that as very confusing to her and she would def try to push Me harder to try and see just what all she could get by with.... again this goes back to the nothing is set in stone rule .. this is just what works for Me and Mine .. so I can see your point about it not being fundamental to all.



Calandra -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:11:57 PM)

I love the word and the ideals behind it. I wouldn't ever be able to accept someone (as a friend, lover, or sub/slave) who didn't at least respect My feelings about protocols.



AquaticSub -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:16:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

For Me , in a Ms relation there definately has to be structure and consistency.. she has to have the structure  in the form of knowing what I expect from her on a daily basis .. And I have to be consistent in enforcing what My rules are .. If I were to let her get by with something one day and not the next then I see that as very confusing to her and she would def try to push Me harder to try and see just what all she could get by with.... again this goes back to the nothing is set in stone rule .. this is just what works for Me and Mine .. so I can see your point about it not being fundamental to all.


But what does structure and consistency have to do with protocol? I don't mean to be rude, I just don't see the connection.

Valyraen is always in charge and his rules don't change. The rewards and punishments for them only change if the situation requires it, ie. being rewarded more then usual if outside factors made a task more complex then it would be normally or being punished less if outside factors made the task I failed at much more difficult or impossible.

I suppose one could call making Valyraen's sandwich the way he likes it or his hot chocolate the way he likes a protocol. I just don't think of it that way.



CelticPrince -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:19:25 PM)

kyra,

I also note the negative comments re the subject. The ones that do not follow it or feel a need to do so just react that way.

For myself and those that relate to me, understand and practice protocols.

CP



KnightofMists -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:37:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Most restaurants don't have hat check rooms anymore. A baseball cap can be stuffed into a pocket but an expensive 20X Western hat needs to be put someplace safe. Which doesn't mean on the floor.


well... I often wear a Beaver Felt Fedora or my Leather Fedora and never have a problem finding a place to put it..... even if that means getting another chair just for the hat. 

Just because hat check doesn't exist is not a reason not to take off the hat.  If a person doesn't want to... well they say so.. and not give some lame excuse of no hat checks...  I can respect a person that is doing their own thing.. I can't respect lame excuses



HardnRuff -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 1:56:24 PM)

Acquatic sub .. I am just saying that the protocol I have set for her needs to be consistent .. if shes not to look into My eyes until given permission if shes not to  greet me until I greet her for example in protocol .. how can that be enforced with No consistency ???



AquaticSub -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 2:01:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

Acquatic sub .. I am just saying that the protocol I have set for her needs to be consistent .. if shes not to look into My eyes until given permission if shes not to  greet me until I greet her for example in protocol .. how can that be enforced with No consistency ???


Well yeah. No one is saying that protocol shouldn't be consistent if a couple chooses to use it.

I don't really have protocol, though I have rules and those things don't change. I guess I just wonder why you associated protocol with consistency and structure when you asked how you can have those things without protocol. You can very easily.



Rover -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 2:04:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I don't really have protocol, though I have rules and those things don't change.


I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you distinguish between protocol and rules.  Would you mind explaining for me?
 
John



HardnRuff -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 2:15:45 PM)

I agree with John aka Rover here please explain your defintion of the two aquatic??.. Is the protocol that we have established not the rules that I have set for her ??



Elorin -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 2:16:10 PM)

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pro·to·col  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif[/image]  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif[/image]   (prō'tə-kôl', -kōl', -kŏl')  Pronunciation Key  n.  
  • The forms of ceremony and etiquette observed by diplomats and heads of state.
  • A code of correct conduct: safety protocols; academic protocol.
  • The first copy of a treaty or other such document before its ratification.
  • A preliminary draft or record of a transaction.
  • The plan for a course of medical treatment or for a scientific experiment.
  • Computer Science A standard procedure for regulating data transmission between computers.
      American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
      rule  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif[/image]  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif[/image]   (rōōl)  Pronunciation Key  n.  
    1. Governing power or its possession or use; authority.
    2. The duration of such power.
    3. An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct, especially one of the regulations governing procedure in a legislative body or a regulation observed by the players in a game, sport, or contest.
    4. The body of regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for governing the conduct of its members.
    5. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    6. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
    7. An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct, especially one of the regulations governing procedure in a legislative body or a regulation observed by the players in a game, sport, or contest.
    8. The body of regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for governing the conduct of its members.
    9. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    10. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
    11. A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior: "The rule of life in the defense bar ordinarily is to go along and get along" (Scott Turow).
    12. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most or all cases: In this office, hard work is the rule, not the exception.
    13. Mathematics A standard method or procedure for solving a class of problems.
    14. Law
    15. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    16. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
       
      ~edited to get rid of whitespace~



      17. Elorin -> RE: Protocol (7/9/2007 2:19:35 PM)

      I most always see "protocol" as a more formalized subset of rules.
      Sir's rules say "always shave before you see me on Wednesday and Saturdays." I don't have a protocol of shaving before I see him, as I might see him other than those "set" days. I do have a rule to follow.

      Sir's rules say "ask for permission before getting into M's bed." I don't have to ask permission before getting into bed, just his bed. I see that as a protocol.

      "Kneel when I say so." is a rule. So is "walk on the side of me that is farthest from traffic."
      "Kneel before entering my home" seems more like a protocol, as does "curtsy when meeting someone new."

      I see a distinction between the two, and I think I see Aquatic's point, but it's a fussy thing to distinguish between.



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