What to expect? (Full Version)

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ripples -> What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:09:26 AM)

I've recently had an irritating conversation with a potential new sub and was wondering if I am being unreasonable with my expectations, so any help or advice would be gratefully received.

The situation - talking to potential sub on msn, having only exchanged a couple of emails previously.

My expectation - that we would exchange photos (at least) fairly early on as I have no intention in stringing anyone along, wasting their's (and my) time if it should turn out that I don't find them physically attractive. As I understand they may not find me physically attractive, I post my picture as my avatar on msn right away.

The outcome - asked for photograph of potential sub and was told that wasn't possible for security reasons. Ok, call me picky, but that strikes me as a little 'off'. What's the point of chatting for eons on msn to establish honesty etc. only to discover there is no physical attraction? Am I being really very unreasonble? Do I need to be more patient?

The finale - I signed off explaining that I didn't wish to waste anymore of my (or his) time, with thanks.

Thanks in advance :)



Lashra -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:13:06 AM)

Red flag, it may mean that he is married or he may look nothing like he described himself as. I know I would want to see a picture and I am sure that he would want to see one of me, so if thats a problem then how can a relationship progress? I think you did the right thing in telling him goodbye.

~Lashra



MamaDomme -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:15:53 AM)

I tend to see red flags when one refuses a pic or a phone call.......... it doesn't have to be immediate, but rather soon after beginning conversation.



DianeB269 -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:18:51 AM)

It's time to move on to the next sub.



Diane



ripples -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:22:12 AM)

Many thanks, all. [:)]



MisPandora -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:24:55 AM)

What is the nature of the relationship?  Is there intent to become RT or is this simply an online venture?

How was your expectation communicated (that you expect to exchange pictures)?  Is that in your profile?  Was this in a previous email and he failed to respond to it?



MstrssPassion -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 7:54:57 AM)

Before I would meet... I would expect a photo but I can't say that I would insist upon one. Just depends on how well I clicked with this person.(the only reason I would expect one is because it is easy to do & the fact that we are about to meet anyway)

I have a question:  Did he say that he would never send you a photo or was he just not at a place where he was comfortable to do so yet?

As for expecting a photo prior to establishing an interest to meet, well that is just a preference, I don't see this as being a rule of thumb nor would I slap the term "red flag" to anyone who would decide to not send one out.

As I have said, I can respect both sides of this story... why someone would want to get one & why someone would not wish to send one out. As for whether you are being unreasonable... I would say no, but neither is he for not sending one. You simply have differing opinions on providing photos.

What is happening here is that you are placing physical attraction as being a huge determining factor in your screening. That is your prerogative. Just know that not everyone screens out people in that manner.

This ability to exchange photos is a relatively new tool. I recall the days when people used print... a small 3 line ad in a newspaper or magazine. I met many people that way & never once did we have a photo. We had to describe ourselves & sometimes use an object as an identifying marker. We met in public locations, often a restaurant, coffee shop... heck I even used the public library. At the first meeting it was expected that either party would be upfront & say.... you aren't what I'm looking for. You have to be gutsy but that's the breaks.

I met some great people on these blind dates. I am actually in touch with 2 people I met by this method some 15 plus years ago. Just maintaining friendship that long is a rare thing... combine that with the fact on how we met... very rare but proves that people can find something pretty special even when doing so blindly. This business of seeing before meeting has made people very shallow in their pursuits.



ocilla -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 10:47:38 AM)

Best to move on - you were right.  And the notion of "my job/life is high profile" is bullshit in my opinion.  So far everytime I have heard that one and given a little more time I come to find out that it is "their percetpion" that their job is high profile - and every single time I've discovered that my job is much more in the public eye then thiers.  A typical male response to assume that they are so very important - pisses me off.



LadyPact -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 1:39:09 PM)

I started a thread similar to this about a month or so ago, because yes, as shallow as it sounds, I want to know what someone looks like prior to agreeing to meet with them.  In My opinion, it saves Me the time to know if it is something worth persuing before I take the time out of My schedule to set up a meeting.  While I do agree with MstrssPassion that it is a relatively new tool to be able to exchange photos via the net, that is exactly what it is.  A tool to save you the time of knowing beforehand what the person looks like.  (Personally, I'm a greater supporter of face cam.  That way, you know for sure that they haven't just thrown up someone else's pic or one of them from ten years and forty pounds ago.)
 
I can more than understand the number of reasons that a person wouldn't want to put their picture up on a public site.  I have no issue with that.  However, if a face pic can't be produced by private email, chat, etc., I'm not going to invest My time further.



MistressLorelei -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 2:08:08 PM)

It's nice to see a photo early on, but in some situations I don't see not receiving a photo as a huge, red flag.

If I have an interest in someone moreso than the generic curious e-mail exchanges.... then I would think for a moment what the reasons might be for his not wanting to send a photo yet.   There are some males out there who are learning to understand their submissive nature, or who may have been hurt in a relationship, or who may be a bit afraid of Dominant Women due to lack of experience, also jobs and kids need to be protected from just handing over a photo to every someone they hardly know.  To some, sending a picture without really knowing someone is like baring his submissive soul to someone who will move in an e-mail or two leaving him even more vulnerable.  Then again, some males are simply being sneaky.

I see no need to send everyone who sends an e-mail or two a photo.  I would rather pick and choose once I know someone a bit who I wish to let more and more into my world.

To the OP:  If it suits your needs to communicate with those with photos only, that's your choice and may be  right for you.  It is a good 'weeder' if you have specific physical criteria.  On the other hand, any player can send a photo of 'some guy' cut out of a website...  getting a photo doesn't always mean you are dealing with someone who is sincere.  In this case, a more sincere male would say, I'm just not comfortable yet.  I'd rather wind up with the latter instance.



MstrssPassion -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 2:10:38 PM)

I'm not sure if this is an event that was only possible in the early days of the net but I know that there use to be capture programs that were able to pick out photo files even when they were sent through email or person to person file sharing.

I know this how... because a good friend of mine was the person in the photo that was sent to me by someone who was sending me a photo of him. Obviously the photo was not this guy. I didn't alert this guy that I knew this... I called my friend. I told him that I had just received the photo & I described what was going on in the photo. He told me he had not posted this photo anywhere & he had actually only shared the photo with the other person who was in the photo... so he called that person.... that person had not shared the photo with anyone. The picture had been plucked from the data stream.

So... are those happenings a thing of the past? I dunno. Maybe other people don't know as well & because of this they don't wish to send their picture through the system at all.

If this is the case then wouldn't you agree that a person is within their right to refuse to send a photo via the internet?

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here... I know that I get a little put off when I don't get a photo once I request one but I have to respect other's wishes. If I were to decide... I'm not going to meet this person until I have a photo, well then they have to respect my wishes as well... we simply have to agree that we are at an impasse & move on.

To continue to push & pressure for one side to give in after each has made their feelings on this subject known... well then someone is being unreasonable. If you insist they send it then you are unreasonable, if they insist that you continue talking to them after you say that you will only do so with a pic then they are unreasonable. The gavel swings both way on this one.



MistressSassy66 -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 2:15:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MamaDomme

I tend to see red flags when one refuses a pic or a phone call.......... it doesn't have to be immediate, but rather soon after beginning conversation.


I agree with You MamaD...Its a red flag when they cant send a pic or do a phone call.

For what its worth...I would have said 'see ya' also.



MamaDomme -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 2:42:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

quote:

ORIGINAL: MamaDomme

I tend to see red flags when one refuses a pic or a phone call.......... it doesn't have to be immediate, but rather soon after beginning conversation.


I agree with You MamaD...Its a red flag when they cant send a pic or do a phone call.

For what its worth...I would have said 'see ya' also.


Good to see ya MistressSassy~~~  have I told ya lately that I love you?



undergroundsea -> RE: What to expect? (7/9/2007 8:49:06 PM)

I think your response is reasonable and fair.

There may be some good men who are new to accepting submission and are still very apprehensive, even paranoid, about the privacy issue, which is something that changes with time. If someone seems promising enough otherwise, you might see if it is worth it for you to ask the other when they think it is appropriate to share a photo or if they can suggest another way to provide what you seek, and if that works for you.

For me, an in-person meeting is important to determine interest, and the question of compatibility extends past the first meeting. When circumstances do not allow an in-person meeting and the question of interest remains open, I have at times kept in touch without forming or giving expectations of much until this question settled one way or the other.

Cheers,

Sea



ripples -> RE: What to expect? (7/10/2007 2:22:52 AM)

Many thanks all for the replies.

Thinking about the situation, maybe if he'd shown a little more of what interests me (intellectually, for instance) I would have been a little more patient. I guess the lame excuse of 'security reasons' for not emailing a picture was the deciding factor whether or not to pursue further.

As an aside, he was very keen to find out exactly where I live. For someone so cautious about security, interesting that he didn't afford me the same [:D]



pixelslave -> RE: What to expect? (7/11/2007 10:14:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion
I'm not sure if this is an event that was only possible in the early days of the net but I know that there use to be capture programs that were able to pick out photo files even when they were sent through email or person to person file sharing.


As what some would call a "geek" who definitely goes back to the early days of the net and before (remember BBS's?), I can say that this is entirely possible, even today.  It's why we use encryption in important emails and https protocols for important/secure transactions on the web.  It's also the main reason why you see the regular security updates from Microsoft.  I should also add that it takes much more today than it did in the early days of the net.  Frankly if someone is capable of doing that today, you'd have quite a find if you were looking for someone with highly technical skills. [;)]
 
Even photos on web sites which presumably can't be saved to your computer are easily saved by anyone with knowledge of how computers, web sites and digital files work.  There also used to be a number of screen capture programs that essentially automated the same type of thing by working around various security security measures that existed at the time (none are still all that secure).  I've personally not kept up on the latter as I have no need of such utilities.  As digital artist myself, I strongly believe in respecting the copyrights of others. [&:]
 
On the downside, you'd also have someone whose honesty would always be in question.  To my way of thinking, such a person would not make a very good candidate to be the submissive of a respected Mistress. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]
 
 - pixel
 
   Collared to Majik 6-23-07
 



Misstoyou -> RE: What to expect? (7/11/2007 11:48:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion
I'm not sure if this is an event that was only possible in the early days of the net but I know that there use to be capture programs that were able to pick out photo files even when they were sent through email or person to person file sharing.



 
Even photos on web sites which presumably can't be saved to your computer are easily saved by anyone with knowledge of how computers, web sites and digital files work.  There also used to be a number of screen capture programs that essentially automated the same type of thing by working around various security security measures that existed at the time (none are still all that secure).  I've personally not kept up on the latter as I have no need of such utilities.  As digital artist myself, I strongly believe in respecting the copyrights of others. [&:]
 




I am neither a digital artist nor a computer expert, but I can tell you that with a Mac, you only have to drag and drop to collect pictures from websites, including CM profiles and mail attachments.



FavoriteGuy -> RE: What to expect? (7/11/2007 12:01:44 PM)

quote:

asked for photograph of potential sub and was told that wasn't possible for security reasons.


Just let Dick Cheney know that you appreciate his interest in you, but you politely decline.



MstrssPassion -> RE: What to expect? (7/11/2007 12:18:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou


quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion
I'm not sure if this is an event that was only possible in the early days of the net but I know that there use to be capture programs that were able to pick out photo files even when they were sent through email or person to person file sharing.



 
Even photos on web sites which presumably can't be saved to your computer are easily saved by anyone with knowledge of how computers, web sites and digital files work.  There also used to be a number of screen capture programs that essentially automated the same type of thing by working around various security security measures that existed at the time (none are still all that secure).  I've personally not kept up on the latter as I have no need of such utilities.  As digital artist myself, I strongly believe in respecting the copyrights of others. [&:]
 




I am neither a digital artist nor a computer expert, but I can tell you that with a Mac, you only have to drag and drop to collect pictures from websites, including CM profiles and mail attachments.


I'm not talking about grabbing public photos... those are easy to grab even with right click disabled.

I'm talking about Jane emailing the pic or doing a file transfer with John & not ever posting a pic... & just by this direct transfer/email their picture is picked up by someone else... it is my understanding that there are programs that can "sniff out" so to speak, these files & capture them. (?) I have no way to verify the existence of such a program, just know that this scenario has happened)

Because of this, I can see why a person who doesn't wish to have their image snagged or picked up by unwanted sources are completely within the right to refuse to send one. This doesn't send out red flags to me... the most valid red flags would be easily found out within the conversation.

Keep in mind, pictures can easily be faked simply because they are so easy to come by online.



LadyHugs -> RE: What to expect? (7/11/2007 3:58:28 PM)

Dear ripples, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eyes I see; anybody can take a photograph of someone, edit and such and then post it on to a profile.  It really is amazing how cut and paste can work on some sites and you will not know that the photograph was stolen/hijacked until you meet the person face to face and flesh pressed to flesh in a handshake.
 
Several incidents like this have happened in the area I live in; where men and women have false photos in order to 'impress' or say that it is their picture from their youth.  I think it to be a 'red' flag; as it is not being honest to begin with; which thwarts any trust in that person.
 
As I am in a highly political and military area; there is some truth in which it is 'job suicide' to post their pictures.  However, I really would meet these people in a public as well as neutral place--for safety sake.
 
That said, unfortunately there are men and women who feel the need to lie, cheat and mislead individuals.  Some are in unhappy circumstances indeed.  However, we must be able to stick to our expectations without having to wage a mini-war as to defend them and have others except them.  We all have expectations.  Respecting them and of those of others is an important factor in dealing with others.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



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