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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 5:38:20 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
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Aaaaiiieeeeeee!  Nooooo.
I'm having college nightmare flashbacks.
Physics bad and evil. 

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 5:41:04 AM   
farglebargle


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Physics is PHUN!



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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 6:00:37 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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well this string theory....multiple dimensions that we cant concieve, couple things...

If everyone or anyone remembers the flatland where people were glued on a one dimensional universe ---now if there are say 9 dimensions (we being only aware of 4ish i is some of the problem with the up down spin pairing and gravity and speed of light limit issue)  lets say there are some dimensions that are rolled up like a fiddle head fern out there.  Now we can only traverse in what we are aware of, so if there is an S curve chunk out there we have to walk the entire S where gravity and gluons and quarks and other particles could concievably cut thru the thing in a path that would make the S look like  (I dont know how this will show up, it is a dollar bill sign) then certain accepted boundaries would not be violated.  The issue with this at present is that 1. Some of these extra dimensions should damn near be visible to the naked eye, and of course should somehow be availed by experiment in at least a fashion to feel it, like we do neutrons. 

remember the star trek where there was a parallel dimension going on with like the regular guys looking like statues and the others buzzing like nits? 

Well, many worlds says that, and the Copenhagen Interpretation says that, and Schroedigers cat said that before it croaked and so on, the problem in this so far is the observability.

If you get into the multidementional and string theory and vibrations, you see what for all intents and purposes are standing waves,  to date, any move towards the different forces converging into one are glued together via harmonics or standing waves or whatever your name du jour is............

Marconi plays the mamba,
listen to the radio,
we built this city;
we built this city on rock and roll.

grace slick  

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 6:06:38 AM   
Caius


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lol...yeah, this is about as good as it usually goes.

I feel ya, Ken.   Posting on anything within an empirical domain on this board is a hit-and-miss proposition.

Though I feel obliged to add that when you come across something that's clearly not reconcilible with the framework of the consensus view,  you should be aware that it's very often counter-productive to try to engage on the finer points, especially in an area such as this.   And in any account, for whatever reasons, their perspective might serve viable functions, for them.   Anyway, there is that occasional oddly-wired genius who makes the most profound discoveries but is at times incapable of describing them in the usual venacular and even has slips into outright mysticism in his dialogue?  (Newton? Tesla?)   Not that I'm suggesting that's what we're seeing here, but...in principle....


< Message edited by Caius -- 7/10/2007 6:19:50 AM >

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 6:20:49 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Edit: Also, I'm not aware of much math behind String 'Theory'.. is there any you're able to point to? About the "dark matter/energy" bit- it's basically shots in the dark, so no one really knows just yet.



http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/

He basically points out in great detail that while he loves the math behind String Theory, he makes a good case that the theories dont really go anywhere.

I can look around in my dock bag to see what else I can find, although most of what I know about it come from articles in Scientific American and Discover. 

I am currently in a Chaos Theory mode of researching the supporting books, then I want to take a side journey into Games Theory, before I wander over to look at String Theory.  I will be up front about my lacking strong enough math skills to delve into it too deeply.

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 6:49:00 AM   
Real0ne


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    Quaternions

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 6:53:02 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68
Aaaaiiieeeeeee!  Nooooo.
I'm having college nightmare flashbacks.
Physics bad and evil. 

Aileen in your avatar pic. are you checking to see if the Earth is flat.or have you lost a contact lens ?

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 7:56:16 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Your theory seems to fail several basic tests.

This higher dimension 'velcoity space' is an unnecessary entity and therefore violates Occam's Razor. You need your theory to explain some observation that other simpler, less entities, theories don't to make adding the extra dimension valid.

This brings us to the much more important problem of testing. Your theory needs to make a prediction at odds with present theory which others can then test and verify whether your theory correctly or incorrectly predicted the outcome. Unfortunately I don't see anything predicted by your theory and certainly not anything contrary to the predictions of more widely accepted theories. This failure is quite similiar to what is keeping string theory from wide acceptance. We simply have no way to determine whether it is correct or not.



Science by Razor alone?

The aforementioned problem of underdetermination poses a serious obstacle to applications of the scientific method. Formulating theories and selecting the most promising ones is impossible without a way of choosing among an arbitrarily large number of theories, all of which fit with the evidence equally well. If any one principle could single-handedly reduce all these infinite possibilities to find the one best theory, at first glance one might deduce that the whole of scientific method simply follows from it, and thus that it alone would be sufficient to power the whole process of hypothesis formulation and rejection scientists undertake. Occam's razor has become a basic tool for those who follow the scientific method,[citation needed] and is by far the most popular tool invoked to justify one underdetermined theory over another.[citation needed] However, there is more to the scientific method than analyzing data - processes of collecting data, pre-existing mind frames, well-accepted hypotheses and even axioms that may or may not actually correspond with reality, and the vague nature of scientific community consensus all play a very significant role in the process of scientific inquiry, perhaps more significant in practice than many of the finer points of inductive logic (Thomas Kuhn outright rejected induction as the main driving force of the scientific method altogether in favor of paradigm shifts). Aside from that, the common statement of "the simplest explanation tends to be the best" cannot be properly evaluated for scientific purposes unless sharpened into a particular brand by a significant degree of formal precision; it is certainly possible to formulate a set of ground rules for the procedure and operation of such a razor that will be utterly useless or sorely lacking when tackling a particular set of data (see below, "probability theory"). Occam's razor is not equivalent to the idea that "perfection is simplicity". Albert Einstein probably had this in mind when he wrote in 1933 that "The supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience" often paraphrased as "Theories should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." It often happens that the best explanation is much more complicated than the simplest possible explanation because it requires fewer assumptions. In light of this, the popular rephrasing of the razor - "The simplest explanation is the best one" - can lead to a gross oversimplification when the word simple is taken at face value. There are two senses in which Occam's razor can be seen at work in the history of science. One is ontological reduction by elimination and the other is by intertheoretic competition. In the former case the following are examples of reduction by elimination: The impetus of Aristotelian Physics, the angelic motors of medieval celestial mechanics, the four humors of ancient and medieval medicine, demonic possession as an explanation of mental illness, phlogiston theory from premodern chemistry, and vital spirits of premodern biology. In the latter case there are three examples from the history of science where the simpler of two competing theories each of which explains all the observed phenomena has been chosen over its ontologically bloated competitor: the Copernican heliocentric model of celestial mechanics over the Ptolemaic geocentric model, the mechanical theory of heat over the Caloric theory, and the Einsteinian theory of electromagnetism over the luminiferous aether theory.
  • In the first example, the Copernican model is said to have been chosen over the Ptolemaic due to its greater simplicity. The Ptolemaic model, in order to explain the apparent retrograde motion of Mercury relative to Venus, posited the existence of epicycles within the orbit of Mercury. The Copernican model (as expanded by Kepler) was able to account for this motion by displacing the Earth from the center of the solar system and replacing it with the sun as the orbital focus of planetary motions while simultaneously replacing the circular orbits of the Ptolemaic model with elliptical ones. In addition the Copernican model excluded any mention of the crystalline spheres that the planets were thought to be embedded in according the Ptolemaic model. In a single stroke the Copernican model reduced by a factor of two the ontology of Astronomy.
  • According to the Caloric theory of heat, heat is a weightless substance that can travel from one object to another. This theory arose from the study of cannon boring and the invention of the steam engine. It was while studying cannon boring that Count Rumford made observations that conflicted with the Caloric theory and he formulated his mechanical theory to replace it. The Mechanical theory eliminated the Caloric and was ontologically simpler than its predecessor.
  • During the 19th century, physicists believed that light required a medium of transmission much as sound waves do. It was hypothesized that a universal aether was such a medium and much effort was expended to detect it. In one of the most famous negative experiments in the history of science, the Michelson-Morley experiment failed to find any evidence of its existence.
Then when Einstein constructed his theory of special relativity without any reference to the Aether this subsequently became the accepted view, thus providing another example of a theory chosen in part for its greater ontological simplicity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor


unfortunately simplicity, (especially over simplicity), and ignorance, are often kizzin cuzinz

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/10/2007 8:41:16 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 9:24:37 AM   
GhitaAmati


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The only think I really know about gravity is that its winning the fight with my tits....

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 10:45:44 AM   
mnottertail


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Look behind you, gravity appears to be pervasive.

AL E.

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 12:01:41 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
unfortunately simplicity, (especially over simplicity), and ignorance, are often kizzin cuzinz

But Occam's Razor is completely and totally about not being overly simplistic or overly complicated. The prefered explanation of any observation is the simplest one that fully and completely explains the observation. When a new observation comes along that somehow violates the existing theory then the new simplest explanation of the observations becomes the prefered one. Until that point is reached the simplest explanation and all the more complicated explanations all adequately explain the existing observations so it is best to default to the simplest.

Which is why psuedo scientists hate the razor. They pop up and spout their bizzare theory inolving way too much complication and proclaim it be to be correct. Then a real scientist, or interested amateur like me comes along, and asks that great slayer of psuedo science, "what does this explain better than present theory?" Until you can actually do that your new theory does nothing useful that the existing simpler theory already does.

This is where string theory is at right now. It adds a whole lot of new entities to attempt to explain a problem. However at present no prediction of string theory not also predicted by other theories of gravity can be tested. So while a lot of people are really excited by the idea it isn't actually useful, even with it we don't have a unified field theory that works, and it is entirely possible that it is wrong.

Caius, no worries for me. I'm a long time poster at talk.origins and I've swatting around psuedo science and creationism for a very long time.

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 12:36:20 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How does gravity work? Nobody has a clear answer. Does it "warp the fabric of space/time" and is therefore a passive force or does it function as the other fundamental forces by the active exchange of some particle or something else entirely? We simply don't know.



Right.  I understand what it does.  What I am curious about is why it does what it does.

If I remember correctly, gravitational lensing studies have proven the existence of something (which has mass of one type or another) that does not really interact with matter out in the galaxy.

One aspect of the dimensionality thing was explained in something I read about looking at dimensions as being similar to sheets of paper lying on top of each other.  The mass which has an effect in this universe may actually be on the sheet of paper next door; and not detectable by the sheet of paper it is lying on except as gravity.

On a similar note, going back to what farglebargle (IIRC) pointed out, why does magnetism do what it does?

I can see Dr. Woit's point; we cannot possibly test to determine if string theory works.  Still seems interesting as hell to try to figure things out.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 12:51:49 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
unfortunately simplicity, (especially over simplicity), and ignorance, are often kizzin cuzinz

But Occam's Razor is completely and totally about not being overly simplistic or overly complicated. The prefered explanation of any observation is the simplest one that fully and completely explains the observation. When a new observation comes along that somehow violates the existing theory then the new simplest explanation of the observations becomes the prefered one. Until that point is reached the simplest explanation and all the more complicated explanations all adequately explain the existing observations so it is best to default to the simplest.

Which is why psuedo scientists hate the razor. They pop up and spout their bizzare theory inolving way too much complication and proclaim it be to be correct. Then a real scientist, or interested amateur like me comes along, and asks that great slayer of psuedo science, "what does this explain better than present theory?" Until you can actually do that your new theory does nothing useful that the existing simpler theory already does.

This is where string theory is at right now. It adds a whole lot of new entities to attempt to explain a problem. However at present no prediction of string theory not also predicted by other theories of gravity can be tested. So while a lot of people are really excited by the idea it isn't actually useful, even with it we don't have a unified field theory that works, and it is entirely possible that it is wrong.

Caius, no worries for me. I'm a long time poster at talk.origins and I've swatting around psuedo science and creationism for a very long time.


and who is going to "properly" determine what is the "proper and correct" simplest determination?  i will put my money on this any ole day since he discovered quarks 100 years ago.


Dynamic theory of gravity


Tesla published a prepared statement on his 81st birthday (July 10, 1937) critiquing Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. The following is a portion of that statement:
"... Supposing that the bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curving of the same, it appears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies, and producing the opposite effects, straightening out the curves. Since action and reaction are coexistent, it follows that the supposed curvature of space is entirely impossible - But even if it existed it would not explain the motions of the bodies as observed. Only the existence of a field of force can account for the motions of the bodies as observed, and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. All literature on this subject is futile and destined to oblivion. So are all attempts to explain the workings of the universe without recognizing the existence of the ether and the indispensable function it plays in the phenomena."
"My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla
While this statement asserted that Tesla had "worked out a dynamic theory of gravity" that he soon hoped to give to the world, he reportedly died before he publicized the details. There is still a halo of mystery around his death - even the exact date is not certain. It is speculated that his death may have been caused by too much "pressure" by agents in order to extract and obtain the secret documents regarding this theory. Unfortunately few details were publicly revealed by Tesla about his theory. Available details argument against space being curved by gravitational effects, which leads some to believe Tesla failed to understand Einstein's theory is not about curved space at all, but curved space-time. However, there is disagreement about Tesla's exact understanding of Einstein's theories; Tesla was actively conducting tangible experiments during the time of Einstein's theoretical research.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity

i am pretty sure i mentioned earlier:   Quaternions

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 1:00:04 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity



Interesting read.

Although it really does not go in depth into mathematical proofs for it, other than to say Tesla died before he could publish them.

Having said that, does his dynamic theory of gravity work in terms of the Standard and Quantum Models?  Those have been, for the most part, rigorously studied and tested.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 3:04:16 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Bosons transmit forces. How ?
Its is known that forces do appear to act at a distance so lets construct a fairy tale, wrap it  up in abstruse maths to bambozzle the the peasants and all live happiily ever after.

Fermions make up matter such that solids cannot be transmitted one thru' the other.
Tell that to the man who invented the bullet proof vest.

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 4:03:21 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity



Interesting read.

Although it really does not go in depth into mathematical proofs for it, other than to say Tesla died before he could publish them.

Having said that, does his dynamic theory of gravity work in terms of the Standard and Quantum Models?  Those have been, for the most part, rigorously studied and tested.

Sinergy


who can know since our government has declared itself above FOIA?

i do believe i am correct that he used quaternions as the math of choice to bring it all together.

The government confiscated all teslas work and personal effects, sifted through it and sent much of it back to serbia while also keeping much of it under lock and key.  you will not get your hands on it even using the foia.

To what degree beyond scalar etc that tesla found einstein to be in error i really cannot say.  Everyone close to him is dead and all we have is bits and pieces because tesla did most of this in his head with just a few chicken scratch notes here and there rather than making publications.

Like most of the greats he was so far ahead of his time people were clueless. heh still are for the most part 100 years later.

I am not the one to ask how well it fits into einsteins ballgame.  i do know that certain pieces do but to what extent i do not know because i have never muttled my way through it.  Tesla seen the world through mechanical eyes, even electricity and just for kicks i will add that his newest method of (wire type) transmission of electricity only needed one wire and operates nearly exactly like the human nervous system.\

That and you will find cornell university "today" working very diligently on several aspects of exactly what we are talking about here.  (cornell does a lot of work for the military btw)




There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla

i think to fathom this to its final conlusions would give us the answers.




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/10/2007 4:09:00 PM >


_____________________________

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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 4:08:23 PM   
MsBearlee


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There is a new book out by Walter Isaacson called Einstein: His Life and Universe…first book on E since a boatload of old papers were released from his family.  The author is good, got a best seller with another work:  Benjamine_Franklin: An American Life (which was quite good, IMO).
 
With the book on E, he collaborated with scientists, physicists, mathematicians, even high school teachers…to make the topic understandable to a reader like myself…but at the same time TRUE.  I am absolutely amazed at the read…it’s a magnificent book, if ya ask me…AND…it may have some answers you are interested in, Sinergy.  From Amazon’s website…is a glimpse of Chapter One.  Even there, some of your questions are addressed, I think.    
 
While E has the reputation for being not much of a family man, it is quite interesting to read what a celebrity he became…rock star fame for a scientist; way cool!!!  There are other things that seem disproved, too…his first wife was not so much a real part of his Relativity Theory (other than putting up with him…no easy task); and the fact that he regularly offered Kudos to others for their work, too.  He was a great fan of Newton, for example.
 
Anyway…I’m almost halfway through the book…and am happy to have it.
 
Beverly

edited cuz I STILL cannot spell! 

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 7/10/2007 4:09:27 PM >


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RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 7:41:45 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Bosons transmit forces. How ?
Its is known that forces do appear to act at a distance so lets construct a fairy tale, wrap it  up in abstruse maths to bambozzle the the peasants and all live happiily ever after.

Fermions make up matter such that solids cannot be transmitted one thru' the other.
Tell that to the man who invented the bullet proof vest.


i will go out on a limb here and say that bosons can exhibit the properties of a fermionn when in a high ehergy state.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 8:50:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
unfortunately simplicity, (especially over simplicity), and ignorance, are often kizzin cuzinz

But Occam's Razor is completely and totally about not being overly simplistic or overly complicated. The prefered explanation of any observation is the simplest one that fully and completely explains the observation. When a new observation comes along that somehow violates the existing theory then the new simplest explanation of the observations becomes the prefered one. Until that point is reached the simplest explanation and all the more complicated explanations all adequately explain the existing observations so it is best to default to the simplest.

Which is why psuedo scientists hate the razor. They pop up and spout their bizzare theory inolving way too much complication and proclaim it be to be correct. Then a real scientist, or interested amateur like me comes along, and asks that great slayer of psuedo science, "what does this explain better than present theory?" Until you can actually do that your new theory does nothing useful that the existing simpler theory already does.

This is where string theory is at right now. It adds a whole lot of new entities to attempt to explain a problem. However at present no prediction of string theory not also predicted by other theories of gravity can be tested. So while a lot of people are really excited by the idea it isn't actually useful, even with it we don't have a unified field theory that works, and it is entirely possible that it is wrong.

Caius, no worries for me. I'm a long time poster at talk.origins and I've swatting around psuedo science and creationism for a very long time.


and who is going to "properly" determine what is the "proper and correct" simplest determination?  i will put my money on this any ole day since he discovered quarks 100 years ago.


Dynamic theory of gravity


Tesla published a prepared statement on his 81st birthday (July 10, 1937) critiquing Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. The following is a portion of that statement:
"... Supposing that the bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curving of the same, it appears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies, and producing the opposite effects, straightening out the curves. Since action and reaction are coexistent, it follows that the supposed curvature of space is entirely impossible - But even if it existed it would not explain the motions of the bodies as observed. Only the existence of a field of force can account for the motions of the bodies as observed, and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. All literature on this subject is futile and destined to oblivion. So are all attempts to explain the workings of the universe without recognizing the existence of the ether and the indispensable function it plays in the phenomena."
"My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla

While this statement asserted that Tesla had "worked out a dynamic theory of gravity" that he soon hoped to give to the world, he reportedly died before he publicized the details. There is still a halo of mystery around his death - even the exact date is not certain. It is speculated that his death may have been caused by too much "pressure" by agents in order to extract and obtain the secret documents regarding this theory. Unfortunately few details were publicly revealed by Tesla about his theory. Available details argument against space being curved by gravitational effects, which leads some to believe Tesla failed to understand Einstein's theory is not about curved space at all, but curved space-time. However, there is disagreement about Tesla's exact understanding of Einstein's theories; Tesla was actively conducting tangible experiments during the time of Einstein's theoretical research.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity

i am pretty sure i mentioned earlier:   Quaternions

And here we see a perfect example of what I described. Tesla added Luminiferous Aether and then bound gravity to EM. So what observations do these new theoretical entities explain that present relativity and gravity theories don't? Until you can say to scientists everywhere and anywhere, 'build this device and perform this experiment and you'll get this result which is nicely predicted by dynamic gravity but not by modern physics' you, and Tesla, haven't got a thing.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Physics Thread - 7/10/2007 9:04:47 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
unfortunately simplicity, (especially over simplicity), and ignorance, are often kizzin cuzinz

But Occam's Razor is completely and totally about not being overly simplistic or overly complicated. The prefered explanation of any observation is the simplest one that fully and completely explains the observation. When a new observation comes along that somehow violates the existing theory then the new simplest explanation of the observations becomes the prefered one. Until that point is reached the simplest explanation and all the more complicated explanations all adequately explain the existing observations so it is best to default to the simplest.

Which is why psuedo scientists hate the razor. They pop up and spout their bizzare theory inolving way too much complication and proclaim it be to be correct. Then a real scientist, or interested amateur like me comes along, and asks that great slayer of psuedo science, "what does this explain better than present theory?" Until you can actually do that your new theory does nothing useful that the existing simpler theory already does.

This is where string theory is at right now. It adds a whole lot of new entities to attempt to explain a problem. However at present no prediction of string theory not also predicted by other theories of gravity can be tested. So while a lot of people are really excited by the idea it isn't actually useful, even with it we don't have a unified field theory that works, and it is entirely possible that it is wrong.

Caius, no worries for me. I'm a long time poster at talk.origins and I've swatting around psuedo science and creationism for a very long time.


and who is going to "properly" determine what is the "proper and correct" simplest determination?  i will put my money on this any ole day since he discovered quarks 100 years ago.


Dynamic theory of gravity


Tesla published a prepared statement on his 81st birthday (July 10, 1937) critiquing Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. The following is a portion of that statement:
"... Supposing that the bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curving of the same, it appears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies, and producing the opposite effects, straightening out the curves. Since action and reaction are coexistent, it follows that the supposed curvature of space is entirely impossible - But even if it existed it would not explain the motions of the bodies as observed. Only the existence of a field of force can account for the motions of the bodies as observed, and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. All literature on this subject is futile and destined to oblivion. So are all attempts to explain the workings of the universe without recognizing the existence of the ether and the indispensable function it plays in the phenomena."
"My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla

While this statement asserted that Tesla had "worked out a dynamic theory of gravity" that he soon hoped to give to the world, he reportedly died before he publicized the details. There is still a halo of mystery around his death - even the exact date is not certain. It is speculated that his death may have been caused by too much "pressure" by agents in order to extract and obtain the secret documents regarding this theory. Unfortunately few details were publicly revealed by Tesla about his theory. Available details argument against space being curved by gravitational effects, which leads some to believe Tesla failed to understand Einstein's theory is not about curved space at all, but curved space-time. However, there is disagreement about Tesla's exact understanding of Einstein's theories; Tesla was actively conducting tangible experiments during the time of Einstein's theoretical research.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity

i am pretty sure i mentioned earlier:   Quaternions

And here we see a perfect example of what I described. Tesla added Luminiferous Aether and then bound gravity to EM. So what observations do these new theoretical entities explain that present relativity and gravity theories don't? Until you can say to scientists everywhere and anywhere, 'build this device and perform this experiment and you'll get this result which is nicely predicted by dynamic gravity but not by modern physics' you, and Tesla, haven't got a thing.


To the contrary, empirical evidence would show that we have a lot of "thing" since we are after all talking about the man who discovered quarks and xrays in theory over 100 years ago and like "EVERYTHING" else he claimed that we are capable of proving has been proven valid 100+++ years later such as quarks at los alamos.  to name only 2.  History has already proven this.  i have no reason to doubt anything tesla came up with since unlike einstein i have been unable to find "anything" Tesla has claimed yet to be shown as incorrect.  So my money is on Tesla.

you know its just okhams razor... 





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/10/2007 9:25:30 PM >


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(in reply to DomKen)
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