Collaring for Subs Only? (Full Version)

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BDsbabygirl -> Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 12:45:10 AM)

I am fairly new to this and fell into it quite by accident; my Dom and I met as just friends in a vanilla world but after a while we fell into a romantic relationship. As he has been into BDSM for most of his adult life, he recognized certain qualities in me and we have been greatly enjoying exploring those traits.
 
Now, this is where it gets more complex; outside of sex, we are basically equals. It's in me to defer to him on certain things and that's how I did it in my two vanilla marriages so I don't think of that as being a sub, especially since I actually abhor being told what to do and can only suspend that hatred for the bedroom.
 
I went into this long preface so you can see my mindset; I think as a vanilla person except in the bed.
 
Now, my Dom wants to collar me and while I thrill at just the idea of such a thing, there's the vanilla part of me that wonders why HE doesn't have something to show he's "taken"; the last time I was married, I actually stopped wearing my wedding ring because my husband wouldn't wear his and I didn't want to be the only one 'marked'.

How do I get over this desire to feel equal in terms of showing the world who belongs to whom? I am actually looking forward to being collared but I don't want it ruined because I resent that he has no 'mark' other than hickies (!)

Thank you to all who respond.



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 1:40:41 AM)

You Cannot base a non traditonal lifestyle on the aspects of what you think is a good vanilla relationship .. It just dont work that way In this world.. In My world there is No equals in a Ds or Ms relationship. That is why it is called a Total power exchange. Is your Dom poly?  Or would you be His only one ? The collar would represent that He is taken .If what you want is only submission in the bedroom  that is fine for you, if that is what works. Submission and surrender to Me goes way deeper than the bedroom though.. In Our world think of the collar as a wedding ring on both ends of it. Actualy it means more than a wedding ring to this One.. I see so many rush into collars because they must just think it is cool .A collar is to be earned not given out .Did you get a consideration or a training collar first ?. The  Key thing to consider here is Trust. If you have enough trust in Him to take His collar , then there should be No worries of Him going astray right? I uderstand about you wanting everyone to Know he is yours and all but that in a way is insecurity isnt it ?



LadyHeart -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 1:44:14 AM)

Our D/s dynamic is essentially a bedroom dynamic also, and we use the collar to mark the beginning and end of the scene -  when he puts the collar on me we step into role, and when it comes off, we step out again. Now looked at in that way, since you are playing a D/s bedroom game, can't the collar just be part of the game? It signifies that for the duration of the game, you're the sub and he's the Dom - it's nothing like a wedding band, because it DOES come off again.

:))
LH



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 1:49:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

Our D/s dynamic is essentially a bedroom dynamic also, and we use the collar to mark the beginning and end of the scene -  when he puts the collar on me we step into role, and when it comes off, we step out again. Now looked at in that way, since you are playing a D/s bedroom game, can't the collar just be part of the game? It signifies that for the duration of the game, you're the sub and he's the Dom - it's nothing like a wedding band, because it DOES come off again.
I disagree with that a collar for Me is locked and only comes off when I allow it as to shower etc... My collar stays on where it is a Slave collar or not. I Know in the nilla world I cant make her wear a triple  O ring collar to work but there are subtle collars out there and it can even be something that is signifigant like an anklet etc.. a necklace but the only time it would come off would be when she bathed etc etc ..
:))
LH



RCdc -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 1:50:46 AM)

I dont believe that the OP is basing 'vanilla' conditions on BDSM but I don't see a problem with her doing that even if she did.

And a collar isn't just as or more important than a wedding ring.  To some people, it's nothing more than display and something shiney to look at.

To me, I see a person with a personal preference.  My suggestion is that if you really want to do that, then discuss with your partner and see how he feels and negotiate it with him.  He is the dominant and his decision would be final and you would have to decide if you will submit to that or move on.  I have seen dominants in matching collars to their submissive and braclets... even tattoos with names (yup - just like 'vanilla'[;)]) - personal choice and not set in stone.

Personally, I loathe the whole consideration/training collars blagh (oh the fluffy romance [:'(])... If you think a collars that important, then just collar, don't fuck around with different colours and types because that to me is someone being hesitant and not ready to commit.  If you are going to do it, then do it.  If not and you don't like them, then don't.

the.dark.



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 1:59:47 AM)

A collar IS the signifigance of a wedding ring.Very few things in our lifestyle are any more signifigant if any .It is the outward symbol of a commitment.It marks you as * Property* of another does it not ??It should be worn in pride. What do you think the ceremony of roses Means ?? It isnt  a Joke and should never be taken lightly .A collared sub becomes untouchable unless her Dom/ Master gives His permission.A collar is not just a piece of jewelry that comes off.. I prefer a locking collar that Only I have a key to and one for her for emergencies only..



LadyHeart -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 2:35:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

Our D/s dynamic is essentially a bedroom dynamic also, and we use the collar to mark the beginning and end of the scene -  when he puts the collar on me we step into role, and when it comes off, we step out again. Now looked at in that way, since you are playing a D/s bedroom game, can't the collar just be part of the game? It signifies that for the duration of the game, you're the sub and he's the Dom - it's nothing like a wedding band, because it DOES come off again.
I disagree with that a collar for Me is locked and only comes off when I allow it as to shower etc... My collar stays on where it is a Slave collar or not. I Know in the nilla world I cant make her wear a triple  O ring collar to work but there are subtle collars out there and it can even be something that is signifigant like an anklet etc.. a necklace but the only time it would come off would be when she bathed etc etc ..
:))
LH



It seems you are talking from a theoretical position here ... you don't actually have a slave? 

I am talking from the R/T 24/7 perspective of someone who actually lives the lifestyle and is prepared to make compromises so that I can actually get partners to play with ...

:))
LH



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 2:41:22 AM)

I dont currently own one at the second No , My last died with My collar on and I have yet to be able to Move on . I Live this lifestyle 24 / 7 and This is who I am.. A collar does not Make Me a Master . Even when I take a slave she does not imediately get My collar.She gets it when I feel like she deserves it which could be a year or more.



Caius -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:14:11 AM)

Well, there are various options to consider, as some have suggested, and really, bound to be something that would fit with just about anyone's aesthetic, so long as they don't object to it on principle alone.  And if he dismisses these, well, alsoas others have said, you'll have to decide how comfortable you are moving into this dynamic.    Something eating away at you is bad way to start out, especially if it's over the primary symbol.  And while I think HardnRuff was tactless in his approach, he has something of a point -- this is a traditional symbol, and a traditional part of it is that it is typically -- though certainly not exclusively -- a one way symbol, so, if your dom has been so-long connected with prototypical bdsm ideals, this may be a crucial aspect for him.

Regardless, I'm sure if the relationship is worth having, you'll work it out.  Consider this, though...   The collar may be on you, but it doesn't necesarily speak for just you.  I think you might be suprised, once that collar is on, just how eager your dom is to be seen next to you frequently enough to make it obvious enough who put it around yout neck.  Hardly a universal, of course, but common enough phenomena, I would think.  In the end, I think there are many more subtle factors that imply ownership or co-possesion tahn the most obvious symbols.  Of course, a collar is unmistakable, but many wear them that don't share a concept as to its meaning.  Likewise, many don't but will clearly telecast their devotion to someone, especially in their presence but sometimes even without. 

But if you really feel you do need some kind of physical 'mark,' as you say,  to identify him when away from you, how about having very obvious loud sex with him at his place of work?   Or you could urinate on all of his clothes.   Either/or.



CypherEnigma -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:18:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

A collar IS the signifigance of a wedding ring.Very few things in our lifestyle are any more signifigant if any .It is the outward symbol of a commitment.It marks you as * Property* of another does it not ??It should be worn in pride. What do you think the ceremony of roses Means ?? It isnt  a Joke and should never be taken lightly .A collared sub becomes untouchable unless her Dom/ Master gives His permission.A collar is not just a piece of jewelry that comes off.. I prefer a locking collar that Only I have a key to and one for her for emergencies only..


Such is what the collar is to you. In my experiences it was something much less. It would have been nice if my former Dom held my service (and the symbol of) in such high stature.

edited for my 5 am spelling ability limitations.



Elorin -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:25:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDsbabygirl

Now, my Dom wants to collar me and while I thrill at just the idea of such a thing, there's the vanilla part of me that wonders why HE doesn't have something to show he's "taken"; the last time I was married, I actually stopped wearing my wedding ring because my husband wouldn't wear his and I didn't want to be the only one 'marked'.

In many situations, both the Dom and the sub wear something to indicate they are taken, or at least to indicate their role.  He doesn't have to wear something to show he's taken any more than you do; however it sounds like if he wants you to wear his collar, he needs to be willing to wear a similar token. Suggestions are a ring that says "Master" or that you both choose as his "masters" ring, a leather armband around the bicep, a key around his neck, or any other item symbolic to both of you of his control, and that he specifically controls ~you~.

quote:

How do I get over this desire to feel equal in terms of showing the world who belongs to whom? I am actually looking forward to being collared but I don't want it ruined because I resent that he has no 'mark' other than hickies (!)

Do you want to get over the desire? Truly there is no need to do so. If you want to get over the desire, make a conscious choice. Accept that there is inequality in D/s, the person who is in the submissive/slave/bottom role is not the one making the choices, and then accept his choice. Accept that being collared, "marked as owned" is one of the inequalities. Other than the conscious choice to accept it, I don't know how to "get over" it. I do know, however, that you don't have to get over it, there are other compromises that can be made, instead.

~E



Elorin -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:31:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff
You Cannot base a non traditonal lifestyle on the aspects of what you think is a good vanilla relationship .. It just dont work that way In this world.. In My world there is No equals in a Ds or Ms relationship. That is why it is called a Total power exchange. Is your Dom poly?  Or would you be His only one ? The collar would represent that He is taken .If what you want is only submission in the bedroom  that is fine for you, if that is what works. Submission and surrender to Me goes way deeper than the bedroom though.. In Our world think of the collar as a wedding ring on both ends of it. Actualy it means more than a wedding ring to this One.. I see so many rush into collars because they must just think it is cool .A collar is to be earned not given out .Did you get a consideration or a training collar first ?. The  Key thing to consider here is Trust. If you have enough trust in Him to take His collar , then there should be No worries of Him going astray right? I uderstand about you wanting everyone to Know he is yours and all but that in a way is insecurity isnt it ?

Not all BDSM relationships extend out of the bedroom. Certainly not all BDSM relationships are TPE (total power exchange). You say that a collar means more than a wedding ring to you. Hopefully you realize that it does not have to mean the same thing or have the same significance to others.
If her Dom wants to collar her, then in HIS eyes, she has earned the collar. No one else's opinion in the situation matters than His and hers. Not everyone believes in levels of collars.
And it is perfectly natural for a sub to want the same things that a dom gets from his sub wearing his collar. What does he get? 1) She is willing to show the world that she is his. Nothing wrong with the sub wanting him to show the world that he owns her. 2) It is a warning to others to "back off", or ask before touching. Nothing wrong with a sub wanting other subs to back off or at least acknowledge that there is an established relationship before approaching him! Particularly in a monogamous relationship. 3) It gives the dom a sense of pride to know she is willing to wear his mark. The sub would be just as proud to see that her dom is willing to wear a mark showing he owns her.
The sub wanting the dom to wear a similar mark is no less insecurity than the dom who can't handle owning a sub without having her wear his mark for him.
Collars can be loaded with symbolism or they can be a prop for a hot scene. Trying to get everyone else to agree to use the symbolism that ~you~ load into a collar isn't going to work. The only person who needs to share the meaning and symbolism you put into a collar is your sub.



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:37:27 AM)

 And while I think HardnRuff was tactless in his approach, he has something of a point -- ...How was I tactless??  And If I was I didnt mean to come across that way.



bandit25 -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:39:19 AM)

Well, I thought you came across as "This IS the way everyone should think about a collar...it IS the same as a wedding ring" and it's not.  Some see it that way, some don't.  Like everything else. 



LadyPact -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:41:18 AM)

Usually, I do wear something for My submissive in signifigance that I am not seeking, though it is a symbol that most wouldn't recognize.  I will usually wear a ring on the third finger of My right hand.  Two reasons for this.  First, I am married, so the ring on My left hand is My symbol of My bond to My husband.  Second, I wear the ring for My submissive on the right, based on the old flagging tradition of saying "not looking". 
 
While most wouldn't know what I have attatched in meaning to this particular practice, in the past, My submissive has known, and that is what has mattered.



HardnRuff -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:45:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Well, I thought you came across as "This IS the way everyone should think about a collar...it IS the same as a wedding ring" and it's not.  Some see it that way, some don't.  Like everything else. 
Ok I see your point there maybe that was a lil tactless .. I should have elaborated and said  to Me it IS ... * Smiles* .. sorry did not mean to sound like that at all .



MaamJay -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:51:57 AM)

Being "collared" certainly does have traditional significance in the bdsm world and, while not everyone has exactly the same meaning attached to it, generally it means that the sub 'belongs' in some deep way to the Dominant. It is usually a one-way symbol, bestowed on the sub by the Dominant as and when the Dominant feels the sub is ready to receive it, AND the sub feels ready to accept it. Slave collars go even further in that they imply ownership and being property ... you definitely don't sound as if you want to go there! you need to be aware that to wear a collar "lightly" could deeply offend some people in this lifestyle who feel you are besmirching what the collar represents.

For some people, being submissive in the bedroom is all they and their Dominant want. If that is truly the case (and only you will have had the discussions with Him to be sure of that), then there is no reason why you can't adopt LadyHeart's suggestion of a bedroom only or scene only collar. That shouldn't really offend anyone as it is essentially between you and your Dom. If anyone else should ask, you could explain the nature of it.

Alternatively, you and He could come up with a shared piece of jewellery that has significance to both of you which is not a traditional collar. For My ex-hubby who tried to be a sub but had similar issues to you in terms of not being the only one "marked", W/we had matching anklets made, he wore his on his left ankle and I wore Mine on the right, so when W/we stood together, it was as if W/we were "connected". I came up with some further symbolism for that ... msg Me on the other side of collarme if you want more details. When Master and my sub side got together and the relationship was developing, W/we chose matching silver rings that W/we both wear on the little finger of O/our right hands. This was a symbol of O/our commitment to each other, but wasn't a collar. Subsequently, after 2 years of living together 24/7 and developing a total D/s relationship, He has collared me. However, due to career considerations, W/we designed and had made an identity style bracelet, with the same overall design as O/our commitment rings but with v[A] central in the design. That represents a collar for people "in the know" but otherwise doesn't attract the attention of vanillas. That bracelet doesn't come off, it's very washable! The only time Master would allow it to be removed would be if I had to have a surgical procedure and the Drs said it had to come off.

Hopefully you are now able to consider some options with a better idea of what the collar means to some. Let us know what you and He decide!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



bandit25 -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:53:02 AM)

You're just passionate about it...no harm, no foul [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m9.gif[/image]



pussinbootz -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 3:53:27 AM)

I too am a bedroom sub, for me my collar signifies that I am MM's, but, apart from in the bedroom, I am his equal.  If he started making decisions for me and not allowing me to then there would be problems... and I know he wouldn't want to anyway.

In the end, it doesn't matter what else anyone says.  This is one of those situations where there is a spectrum of degree.  Some people go for TPE and the collar means something very symbolic.  There are others that only submit in specific situations, and the collar only applies in those situations.  No one way it more twue.. the only way that is right for you, is yours!!

It all depends on where you fit on that spectrum and whether you and your Dom are happy with it.  If you suggest that your Dom wears a symbol and he agrees that's cool, if not it's something you need to think about.. are you happy for him to say no?

Ask him, see what he says.. if you are his equal outside the bedroom you have as much right to ask him this as he does to ask you to wear a collar!

Puss



Areflectionofyou -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 4:21:43 AM)

Ok well how i saw his statement was just that a opinion .....just like all the rest here.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

And while I think HardnRuff was tactless in his approach, he has something of a point -- ...How was I tactless??  And If I was I didnt mean to come across that way.



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