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RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 9:02:37 AM   
Trampler


Posts: 580
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		OK, this is not rationalizing bratty behavior, (although brattiness does have it's time and place.)regardless of the dynamics of the relationship, I would definately be inclined to talk over with him, to see if he was just testing me,being a brat and took it to far or there is an underlying issue. (like stress at work,home,etc.) And depending on over situation, my feelings for him and what I sense from him, proceed from there

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 9:41:44 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		If it were H I would open the door and dismiss him and tell him don't call.

If it were my husband, I'd wonder what alien life form had seized his brain first, but I'd probably have to discuss what role if any D/s was going to have in the relationship. Making clear that if this was the kind of reaction I could generally expect, sadly, we probably weren't going to work out.


(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 9:54:01 AM   
kitriana


Posts: 62
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		My sub said no when I ordered him to go to a family function with me a few months ago. The idea being that we are eventually going to get married, and that I have been kind enough to go with him to 20 or so family functions in the past year, this was the fifth I have asked him to go to, and he refused.

I told him if he really felt that way, this would never work out because my family is just as important to me, and if he can't suck it up for one day, he would never be able to do it for years. I told him I wanted my house key back, and he realized how serious it was and we talked about it, and he decided he would go saying he "didn't realize how important it all was to me", but as I told him, "you need to do things just because i ask you, not because i make a big deal out of them, otherwise this won't work".

His punishment was a rather vicious caning..

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 7:10:06 PM   
LadyKrystie


Posts: 11
Joined: 5/30/2007
From: Tampa Bay, Fl.
Status: offline 		Thank you everyone for the sound advice.  It has certainly given me something to file away.  Thankfully, I've not found myself in this situation, but since the scenario came to mind and literally had me stumped, I wanted to ask those with more experience and fresher ideas.  I believe in being prepared, and that is certainly a situation I don't think I'd want to be at a loss in.  Again, thank you for all the wonderful insight.

Lady K

(in reply to kitriana)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 10:09:27 PM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline 		Looks like we all misread this one.  Thinking it was an actual situation, rather than a hypothetical.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with what your understanding is on how far the D/s relationship extends?  For some people, don't they keep it just in the bedroom?  Or do You expect your submissive to follow orders 24/7 no matter where you are? 

What if the submissive in this scenario had an incredibly lousey day?  What if he just got fired, had a toothache, or one of his co-workers pissed in his desk?  Aren't there sometimes extenuating circumstances that could make the entire D/s context the farthest thing from a man's mind?  Or do you expect him to bend over, regardless?

Would You accept this from a sub, "Mistress, i'm sorry, but i am just fried from work.  Please don't hang me upside down from the ceiling fan tonight"?

Or doesn't that matter?

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 10:48:53 PM   
Red82


Posts: 79
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

Looks like we all misread this one.  Thinking it was an actual situation, rather than a hypothetical.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with what your understanding is on how far the D/s relationship extends?  For some people, don't they keep it just in the bedroom?  Or do You expect your submissive to follow orders 24/7 no matter where you are? 

What if the submissive in this scenario had an incredibly lousey day?  What if he just got fired, had a toothache, or one of his co-workers pissed in his desk?  Aren't there sometimes extenuating circumstances that could make the entire D/s context the farthest thing from a man's mind?  Or do you expect him to bend over, regardless?

Would You accept this from a sub, "Mistress, i'm sorry, but i am just fried from work.  Please don't hang me upside down from the ceiling fan tonight"?

Or doesn't that matter?


Of course it matters. But the key there would be communication. THe submissive needs to make sure that their Dominant understands it, relizes he had a bad day, has shit going on, but it does not give leeway for the sub to disrespect his Mistress. It is one thing to say what is going on, saying "Hey, this is what is going on. I kind of need some space", it is another to flat out obey his Mistress and not say a word other than "No".

It all leads back to communication.

(in reply to DSwriter)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 10:56:05 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have never encountered this scenario in a D/s situation, but I have encountered it several times in dealing with children and high school students (I have been both a parent and a teacher). I have one of those bulldog personalities that refuses to be defeated, because control once lost can't be regained, so my response would have been to walk from the room, get the switch, shout at him and whomp either him or the couch beside him. Since I am normally very quiet and controlled, sheer fright would likely have done the trick and broken the impasse. Then we'd talk about it ... OK - we're talking theory here ... so I'm projecting from past experiences.

So, what I'm wondering here, since this seems to have been a theoretical question on your part too - do you have doubts about the degree of your control? To you sense something in him that you think may break out one of these days? Is there a part of you that questions whether you've got what it takes? (I'm not being rude or judgemental here - these are very real human anxieties in these sorts of scenarios)  So were you just speculating, or is there something more to this...?

:))
LH

< Message edited by LadyHeart -- 7/11/2007 10:58:08 PM >

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RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/11/2007 11:17:30 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

Looks like we all misread this one.  Thinking it was an actual situation, rather than a hypothetical.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with what your understanding is on how far the D/s relationship extends?  For some people, don't they keep it just in the bedroom?  Or do You expect your submissive to follow orders 24/7 no matter where you are? 

What if the submissive in this scenario had an incredibly lousey day?  What if he just got fired, had a toothache, or one of his co-workers pissed in his desk?  Aren't there sometimes extenuating circumstances that could make the entire D/s context the farthest thing from a man's mind?  Or do you expect him to bend over, regardless?

Would You accept this from a sub, "Mistress, i'm sorry, but i am just fried from work.  Please don't hang me upside down from the ceiling fan tonight"?

Or doesn't that matter?


I would see my relationship as D/s all the time, in and out of the bedroom.  If I am to have a strong, 24/7 emotional bond with a male, I would expect that we both know each other well enough that:

1.  I would be able to assess his emotional condition and act accordingly.

2.  He will know that just saying "No" while giving me a 'go to hell' look is not appropriate, but communicating about a concern is.

3.  He will trust that I will make accurate decisions and will always act with his well-being in mind.

Bdsm activity may be the farthest thing from his mind in such extenuating circumstances, but a strong D/s connection is not something with an on/off switch in my opinion. 



(in reply to DSwriter)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 2:41:04 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

Looks like we all misread this one.  Thinking it was an actual situation, rather than a hypothetical.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with what your understanding is on how far the D/s relationship extends?  For some people, don't they keep it just in the bedroom?  Or do You expect your submissive to follow orders 24/7 no matter where you are? 

What if the submissive in this scenario had an incredibly lousey day?  What if he just got fired, had a toothache, or one of his co-workers pissed in his desk?  Aren't there sometimes extenuating circumstances that could make the entire D/s context the farthest thing from a man's mind?  Or do you expect him to bend over, regardless?

Would You accept this from a sub, "Mistress, i'm sorry, but i am just fried from work.  Please don't hang me upside down from the ceiling fan tonight"?

Or doesn't that matter?

It matters, but what matters more is malleability and compliance, and trust.  He needs to trust me to the point that I will know what's best for him.  And given your scenario that he had a shitty day, most often, I do know how to escape him out of that world and immerse him into a safe place -- my way.

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Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to DSwriter)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 3:21:20 AM   
nick2020


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		Perhaps i am missing something. First of all isn't submission yielding to the Dominant??  Not knowing the situation it seems as if there is way to much familiarity  between the sub and the Mistress. We all know what familiarity breeds!!!
 
There are so many subs looking for a Dominant Female to serve that it is difficult to comprehend disobedience. It sounds as if this sub erroneously feels that he is an equal.
 
Just remember there are many of us who would relish the opportunity to kneel at  Ladies feet as She watched television.

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 5:08:51 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		This is a really good question.  We all know what a "perfect" submissive should be, but we also know that reality and fantasy smash hard into eachother in real life D/s relationships

It is very, very common that sooner or later a sub will "jack up" to test you

There are different schools of thought how to handle this (common!) power struggle

Some say you must immediately and without mercy take control and push the sub back into a submissive headspace.  Hence all the suggestions to punish, storm out etc

However, if we believe that communication is truly the key to healthy D/s, then ask "what is going on?".  Explain that this behaviour is very unexpected, hurtful and confusing.  What is the problem?

It might take more courage to confront and discuss the bad behaviour than to punish, but as others have pointed out, negative attention just breeds more belligerent behaviour.  Just ask "are we having  a power struggle?" Call it.  Demand explanations.  Resolve the issues.  Oh, and turn off the TV!  Problems need to be resolved swiftly in D/s relationships before they spin out of control

Be very careful using the "its my way or the highway, buster!" strategy. 

That might feel powerful, but if he walks out, you will be looking again.  And again.  And again.  Being a Dominant is not an excuse for being crap at handling conflict in relationships.  Or you end up spending half your life on collarme complaining that there are no good subs in the world........oops, I have just decribed myself!!

Ms C (newly single and feeling fragile.........yet bloody again!!!!!). 



< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 7/12/2007 5:17:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 5:27:30 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Oh yeah and don't forget to ask right away "are you safe wording?"

Most boy's egos are too big to admit they are!


_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 5:59:56 AM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
3.  He will trust that I will make accurate decisions and will always act with his well-being in mind.
. 


Well said M'Lady.  This seems to be at the heart of a Female-led relationship.  The male willing agrees to this at inception.  And, hopefully craves this - and has the personality to match.  

Agreed, it shouldn't be something You turn off, or You'll be facing open rebellion.  (We submissive can be like children - testing Your boundaries and Your will.)

A follow up question ...

Do You want to be Dominant 24/7?  I realize You can't turn it off, but do You want to punish every infraction?  Doesn't that take a lot of energy?  Do You want a mix of a D/s and vanilla relationship?  And if so, how do handle that mix? 

Just trying to inspire some discussion.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 6:06:42 AM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red82
Of course it matters. But the key there would be communication. The submissive needs to make sure that their Dominant understands it, realizes he had a bad day, has shit going on, but it does not give leeway for the sub to disrespect his Mistress. It is one thing to say what is going on, saying "Hey, this is what is going on. I kind of need some space", it is another to flat out obey his Mistress and not say a word other than "No".

It all leads back to communication.


*nods in agreement*

Not all people are good communicators, especially men. Have you noticed that some men tend to bottle their feelings up inside and have difficulty expressing themselves?

This is one of the wonderful things about the D/s relationship.  The Woman can actually use Her force to get the male to open up. 

My first Domme did this within the context of our relationship.  At times She used to literally beat it out of me - so that i verbalized my thoughts and feelings. 

She used to say that when She had me in a submissive state of mind, i was much more communicative, more open, more caring, more expressive, more sensitive to Her needs.

At times i may not have gone over her lap willingly, but when She was done with me, we BOTH were actually much happier, as we'd resolved whatever communication issue we had - and we'd resolved it quickly so we could move on.

(in reply to Red82)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 6:13:49 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Oh yeah and don't forget to ask right away "are you safe wording?"

Most boy's egos are too big to admit they are!



Hi Ma`am... Can You explain what "Safe wording" Is for me please ? It isn`t an expression i have heard.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 6:34:41 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

Looks like we all misread this one. Thinking it was an actual situation, rather than a hypothetical.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with what your understanding is on how far the D/s relationship extends? For some people, don't they keep it just in the bedroom? Or do You expect your submissive to follow orders 24/7 no matter where you are?


Of course.

But why would someone order something outside the bedroom unless the Ds dynamic extended outside the bedroom?

quote:


What if the submissive in this scenario had an incredibly lousey day? What if he just got fired, had a toothache, or one of his co-workers pissed in his desk? Aren't there sometimes extenuating circumstances that could make the entire D/s context the farthest thing from a man's mind? Or do you expect him to bend over, regardless?

Would You accept this from a sub, "Mistress, i'm sorry, but i am just fried from work. Please don't hang me upside down from the ceiling fan tonight"?

Or doesn't that matter?


Your above situation is nothing like the one in the OP.

Your above situation contains no refusal to obey, simply information plus a request for understanding.

The OP was an outright refusal coupled with a challenge to the dom's authority.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 6:40:19 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
3. He will trust that I will make accurate decisions and will always act with his well-being in mind.
.


Well said M'Lady. This seems to be at the heart of a Female-led relationship. The male willing agrees to this at inception. And, hopefully craves this - and has the personality to match.

Agreed, it shouldn't be something You turn off, or You'll be facing open rebellion. (We submissive can be like children - testing Your boundaries and Your will.)

A follow up question ...

Do You want to be Dominant 24/7? I realize You can't turn it off, but do You want to punish every infraction? Doesn't that take a lot of energy? Do You want a mix of a D/s and vanilla relationship? And if so, how do handle that mix?

Just trying to inspire some discussion.


In my experience punishment should be very rare.

If it is not, then that signals a deep mismatch of Ds interests and individuals.

If you have realistic expectations along with rituals and rules designed to be doable every day, there should be very little opportunity for any infraction except for disobedience which in my very strong opinion is a withdrawl of consent.

You should be adults in this relationship so communicate a lot but don't undermine the authority dynamic you have agreed to unless you mean to end things.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to DSwriter)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 6:43:59 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Speaking as a submissive, if i had issues with work or something, or was having a job dealing. i would ask if i may be excused from doing x and state my reason. Outright refusal is a direct challenge to the Dominant, which in my opinion, should never happen.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 8:00:43 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Speaking as a submissive, if i had issues with work or something, or was having a job dealing. i would ask if i may be excused from doing x and state my reason. Outright refusal is a direct challenge to the Dominant, which in my opinion, should never happen.



Exactly.

I'm thinking that even as the most cold hearted Roman master if a slave came to me and said "master I feel ill" I would want to know because by Jupiter I wouldn't want him around my family or my guests. He can go back to his cell until he feels better.

Of course as a cold hearted Roman master that slave might have one or two days to get well before I just dumped him outside the Temple of Aesculapius or fed him to my fish but I'd still want to know why he couldn't obey.

Or if I'm a really wealthy (lots of slaves) cold hearted Roman master I might totally forget he existed and then he he'd be at the mercy of my other slaves who might be far more nasty than I.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What would you do in this situation? - 7/12/2007 1:35:10 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am just having a hard time imagining anyone giving an outright refusal at a serious order of mine. Not that I am being fat headed, I just cannot imagine anyone getting far enough into any sort of relationship with me, to be in my home, that would do it.

Okay, I just remembered a couple of someones........they are cute, furry, and four legged.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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