Guitar Amp?

Guitar Amp? (Full Version)

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tag8833 -> Guitar Amp? (7/10/2007 7:04:51 PM)
Back When I was getting started playing, I read a blog entry that described using a guitar amp for electrical play. The theory was that the current would vary with pitch and amplitude of music it was amping. It suggested using an Ipod set on shuffle with about 75% of the tracks being silence. I never tried it, as I was worried it was unsafe. Are there any BDSM musicians out there? Is there a better way to create a similar effect?

ArtificerOfKink -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/10/2007 7:25:06 PM)
I would STRONGLY advise against using anything for electric play that was not designed for electric play. It takes very little current to kill someone or damage skin and nerves. Some people may have got it to work but you're really playing with fire. I'm an electrical engineer so I know about this. Please don't try it.

mefisto69 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/11/2007 2:58:03 PM)
cant think of the brand names right now, but there are programmable e-stim units on the market....not music, but you can create programs that vary the pulse and intensity as well as duration. if you have any music background, you could programme the pulses as beats if that's what you'rs after

dragondog1 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/11/2007 3:24:39 PM)
I would recommend a Violet Wands device...here is their site. http://violetwands.net/

sissymaidcindy -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/11/2007 3:44:19 PM)
I'd advise strongly that you avoid any AC line powered device for electrical play. Batteries are a lot more controllable and a lot less energy if you stick with smaller ones. A car battery could still be a problem but a 9V or a few AA's most likely won't be. Stun guns are a notable exception here. Only a 9V battery, but lots of voltage on the output. Mis-application could be bad... cindy

instynctive -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/11/2007 5:20:06 PM)
I was working on my Peavey tube amp one day.. it was unplugged and I was testing some resistors (thought one of them had popped)... I somehow jumped a capacitor with my thumb and heel of my hand.. screamed like a little bitch for the 15 seconds it took to discharge the cap... I was, needless to say, rather embarassed.

chellekitty -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/11/2007 9:29:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: instynctive I was working on my Peavey tube amp one day.. it was unplugged and I was testing some resistors (thought one of them had popped)... I somehow jumped a capacitor with my thumb and heel of my hand.. screamed like a little bitch for the 15 seconds it took to discharge the cap... I was, needless to say, rather embarassed. i would pay for a video clip of that [sm=flying.gif]

instynctive -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 3:53:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty i would pay for a video clip of that [sm=flying.gif] Shall I re-enact it for you? :-P

tag8833 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 4:45:16 AM)
Ok, so a couple of things. 1) It is a myth that AC is more dangerous than DC. Amps have fuses so that they would have a max power output. 2) I was looking for someone to suggest a sound activated electrical toy. 3) I was attracted to the amp concept because the shock would be variable voltage. This makes it a more interesting electrical toy for extended play than a tens unit or a violet wand.

sissymaidcindy -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 5:50:30 AM)
AC vs DC Note that my comment at least specified AC Line voltage vs small battery. The failure modes for a line powered device dwarf the possibilities for a small battery situation. Not meaning to start a flame war here, but that's the concept I was trying to get across. Just an engineer's opinion. Good luck finding a device to meet your needs. I know I've seen something close, but I have no idea where.

tag8833 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 6:47:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissymaidcindy AC vs DC Note that my comment at least specified AC Line voltage vs small battery. The failure modes for a line powered device dwarf the possibilities for a small battery situation. Not meaning to start a flame war here, but that's the concept I was trying to get across. Just an engineer's opinion. I respect your thoughts on this matter. I'm also an engineer, and can understand your point. My thought is, that amps being essentially a power transformer have many, many built in safeguards. I've never had an amp spike on me, unless the amp was too powerful for the speaker to begin with. Regardless, I would stick to a professionally made toy if I could find one that is sound activated.

QuietDom -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 7:17:10 AM)
My understanding of the "AC more dangerous than DC" thing is that it relates to how the current interacts with the nervous system. I'm no electrician, so I'm drawing on fading memories of high-school physics here. As I understand it, a DC shock will deliver a constant discharge at a rate determined by the voltage of the source, and the resistance of the conductor, until the potential difference is exhausted. It can cause a violent jolt from an initial muscle spasm, and very possibly burns. A 60 Hz AC shock, however, is switching polarity 120 times per second. Each time it switches, there will be an instant when the voltage (and therefore the current) is zero. Instead of the one big twitch from DC, then, any muscle tissue in the path of this current will be trying to twitch 120 times a minute. This causes the muscular paralysis associated with AC shocks. A strong DC shock is bad for you, especially if it crosses the heart, as the first spasm may lead to cardiac arrythmia, followed by arrest, followed by death. An AC shock is potentially far more lethal, since all tissue in the current's path is functionally paralyzed until the current stops. Electric chairs use AC.

tag8833 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 7:55:37 AM)
Quite Dom, I appreciate your input, but I believe your science wouldn't apply to an amplifier. The way an amplifier works is by changing voltage and amperage. A low voltage makes a low pitched sound. A high voltage makes a high pitched sound. A low amperage makes a quite sound. A high amperage makes a loud sound. So an amplifier puts out AC current, but the modulation in the current is dependent on the sound being amplified. If you amplified a solid tone, the output would be DC. If you plugged in standard AC power directly to a speaker, it would be a solid pitch that would get very loud and very soft about 60 times a second. For electrical play we could more or less consider an amp as DC current. The problem with most electrical toys (IMHO) is that they use the same voltage (maybe it is adjustable, but it doesn't change unless you are messing with the adjustment knobs). The voltage is the type of sensation you feel. It can go from a dull ache to a sharp pain. The amperage is likewise more-or-less constant dependent on adjustment knobs and contact. Sound responsive toys that I've seen more or less turn the electricity on and off or maybe vary the amperage. I want a toy that can vary voltage as well to keep it interesting. You know, FEEL the music.

instynctive -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 8:13:39 AM)
I feel so out of place here, not being an engineer of any sort... [sm=banana.gif]

petdave -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 3:55:39 PM)
i'm wondering... any particular reason for a guitar amp, is that just what you happen to have laying around? Do you know what the voltage and amperage output ranges are for typical audio usage? That might help make a decision on whether it would be safe for human use. i'm sure it's fused, but what's it fused AT? i've got tools that are fused at 15 amps @110VAC, and automotive amps that are fused at 50A @ 12VDC... i sure as hell don't want to take enough juice to trip one of those. The Erostek is specifically designed for electrical play, and has an audio input that will allow it to function in the way you want, along with a LOT of other functionality. It's also $500. Sooner or later i'll buy one. But as far as audio equipment... before plugging myself into any mains-powered gear, tho, i'd probably start out with a battery-powered version... pick up an old boombox at the thrift store that takes D batteries as a backup, yank out one of the speaker wires, wet your forearm, and hold the wires to it. Start with the volume way down low on white noise, and turn it up till something interesting happens. Might just burn out the amp... my electronics-fu doesn't extend that far. [&:]

malemaid4 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 7:37:36 PM)
I wouldn't use an ac line voltage device myself, especially an old guitar amp. A lot of them have a polarity switch to reduce hum. If set wrong and the bypass capacitor is leaking you could be hot with respect to ground. Not good. If you must use an ac powered device at least run it through an isolation transformer. Be safe

tag8833 -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 9:42:54 PM)
The reason I asked about a guitar amp, is that is what I read about years ago. I do have 2 guitar amps. A standard 50 Watt amp, and a 20 Watt studio amp that has all sorts of specialized adjustments (reverb and stuff). I also have access to several other speaker amps. Those run alot more power, so I was thinking I'd stay clear of them. I tried using my IPod's audio output and was unable to produce a sensation (at 10 mA). I'm thinking that since I can plug the same headphones I use on my IPod into the 20 Watt amp, that there would be no problem setting the signal strength low enough to be non-threatening. I know that you can get shocked by a 9V battery at 50 mA, so I would probably use that as a celing for an initial test. It takes 500 mA across a human heart to kill someone. On the issue of fuses, the car amp fuse that you mentioned is raw power in. The output strength has little to do with that, except that the amp couldn't output more power than that, if the amp happened to be capable of doing so. Also a polarity switch wouldn't be a problem, because it would just switch which speaker wire is hot. The signal would still run from one wire to another. 2 connection points complete the circuit, even if I were grounded really good, it would not exceed the current between the 2 contact points. I remain unconvinced of either safety or danger. Does anyone know a bit more about how amps work specifically? If I do the math right, my 20 Watt amp should max out at about 182 mA (20 Watts/110 Volts) which isn't even close to lethal. Am I calculating this wrong?

pgashlie -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 10:05:56 PM)
No. No. No No, and No. Did I mention No? 50 watts??? Are you kidding? Most TENS and other electrical play units use minute fractions of one watt. A guitar amplifier if designed to produce massive amounts of current, to move big heavy speakers very quickly - at frequencies in the audio spectrum. overcomig their mechanical and electrical inertia sveral hundred or thousand times a second. (It's the frequency which determines the pitch, not the voltage) They're also designed to develop that kind of current in a specific electrical load (Yes, I know... for the purists, the load does vary with the frequency, I'm over-simplifying, OK?). Not in a bag of salty water, such as a humna body, which is very low-resistance) If you were to develop even a few watts in the human body, the underlying tissues would boil, and then fry. There are NO, none, I counted them twice, safguards built into a guitar amp. Every stage performer I know has had a shock from a badly grounded.. there are document cases of people dying from electric shock on stage... remember hum loops? That's bad grounding.. or an amp "floating" above the nominal ground... putting it's output way above the potential of every other grounded metal object in the room - even the floor, if it's even a little damp Some general rules... Never mess with electicity unless you really understand it. from the bad science written in this thread, few do Never use an appliance for a purpose it's not designed for Ideally, don't use line-powered devices for electrical play battery power is safer Learn CPR Learn to recognise the signs of internal burns Have the number of your local ER tattooed o the back of your hand Oh, and a last word... NO!

sappatoti -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/12/2007 10:28:56 PM)
Although not an electrical engineer by trade, I would like to echo pgashlie's post... don't use the guitar amp! Never as a BDSM toy! As a former sound guy for a local country band many, many years ago, I witnessed our bass player having to have CPR administered because he created a circuit between the strings on his bass and his vocal mic on its stand... all while standing on an outdoor metal stage (despite my having asked him not to go on stage until insulating rubber mats could be laid down and a proper earth ground be hooked up). I don't care what the electrical formula and theories suggest... in real life, playing around with guitar amps improperly can certainly cause unconsciousness, if not death. If all the OP is after is some sort of electrical stimulation that synchronizes to the beat of music, perhaps he should purchase one of those battery operated vibrators that already do that with an iPod or other such device and modify it. I've seen those devices for sale in various online adult toy shops but, unfortunately, cannot remember their brand name. Their operation is quite simple... plug the cable from the vibrator into the headphone jack of the music player and have at it. This, to me, would be a little bit safer than mucking around with a high powered AC audio amplifier.

trj -> RE: Guitar Amp? (7/13/2007 5:36:40 AM)
Try SmartStim. Great site, lots of info. http://www.smartstim.com/

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