RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 10:54:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am still waiting for a rational explanation from all the right to lifers about why aborting a child of incest, rape, extensive genetic disorders, et


You'll be waiting a long time. How can pro lifers say it's okay to abort in certain circumstances, yet not others? How can they devalue someone because of 1) circumstance of conception (rape, incest), or 2) birth defect. The child has no power over either of those things, how is it that they have less right-to-life than anyone else? Just some thoughts.


It's not devaluing something when it's used for a greater good. Such as, sacarficing a soldier in a war to save a nation is hardly a devaluation to that soldier. To have a soldier on one's own side, though, slaughtered so that others in his platoon might be amused- that is devaluing his life.

People place different values on the unborn's life. These values often vary, even with the stage of developement it's at. A birth due to incest is often considered more determental than one under normal circumstances. So, someone who considers that baby's life more valuable than the convinience it would afford to one who simply didn't want it, but less valuable than the trauma it would impose on a victim of incest, may conclude there to be a difference here.

It isn't necessarily that the baby's value is different to them (though it may be, as they may consider the higher possiblity of birth defects or other bit as devaluing), but that the circumstances in which that life may be maintained have grown more costly.

Edit: Typo.
Edit 2: Backquote modified to reflect that it was from Sinergy.




sweetNsmartBBW -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:15:14 AM)

Back...again...

To the person who said it's "simple" as to why aborting a fetus (especially a viable one) is differnt than killing a newborn:

As far as I know, cancer cells or tumors are not exactly the same thing as a fetus.  First off, they are abnormalities.  Second, they were not created with the blueprints to become human beings.  Third, they ~are~ genetically PART of the person they reside in.  Perhaps cells gone astray, but with the same DNA as the host.  A baby has it's own DNA, because it is a seperate life growing inside of the mother...

To mistoferin:  you are correct.  Nobody is really answering the real thread.  What does everybody think of this particular FORM of abortion?  I find it reprehensible.  The child's head is out of the birth canal when it's brains are mangled.  The mother ~still~ has to give birth to the rest of that child.  When, or how, exactly, is this ~beneficial~ in any way other than producing a dead child instead of a live one?  These are generally done when a child would be considered viable...in the third trimester.  So, how is it different than totally delivering the child and euthanizing a newborn?  Been trying to figure that out for ages...and I can't see ANY difference...except for semantics, in a society where we are desensitized to killing a 'fetus', but would be up in arms over dead 'babies'....

Satyr6406- well said....I could not agree more.     




Vendaval -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:22:20 AM)

I must agree, caitlyn's willingness to state exactly what is on her mind is wonderful!  [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Running late for work; this has been a good, basically civil discussion, I hope no one goes ballistic before I get back to it [:D]. Have a good day, everyone.


Not me ... I'm hoping to see kSOL come back and start some shit with someone ... or maybe a few more people will talk down to a few others. Does anyone else think Sugar and CL are related? If we are really lucky, maybe some of those with "TOS immunity" will chime in. That would just make everyone's day!!
 
So, Level dear ... take that kinder-gentler stuff to work with you. We don't want it here. [;)][8|][;)]  


caitlyn:
Being a trouble maker and instigator has always endeared you to me.
thompson




CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:32:54 AM)

Glad the girls are getting their taste of lashing out. ;)




Vendaval -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:36:25 AM)

"Causes of teenage pregnancy
In some societies, early marriage and traditional gender roles are important factors in the rate of teenage pregnancy. For example, in sub-Saharan Africa, early pregnancy is often seen as a blessing because it is proof of the young woman's fertility.[10] In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage and pregnancy is more common in traditional rural communities compared to the rate in cities.[11]

In societies where adolescent marriage is uncommon, an early age at first intercourse and lack of contraceptive use may be factors.[4][14] Most teenage pregnancies in the developed world appear to be unplanned.[14][15]

Adolescent sexual behavior

See also: Adolescent sexuality
According to information available from the Guttmacher Institute, sex by age 20 is the norm across the world and countries with low levels of adolescent pregnancy accept sexual relationships among teenagers and provide comprehensive and balanced information about sexuality.[16]

However, in a Kaiser Family Foundation study, 29% of teens reported feeling pressure to have sex, 33% of sexually active teens reported "being in a relationship where they felt things were moving too fast sexually", and 24% had "done something sexual they didn’t really want to do".[17] Inhibition-reducing drugs and alcohol may encourage unintended sexual activity.[4][18][17] According to Leonard Sax (a physician and writer about sex differences), girls often become intoxicated before engaging in sexual activities because it "numbs the experience for them, making it less embarrassing and less emotionally painful."[19]

Adolescents may lack knowledge of, or access to, conventional methods of preventing pregnancy, as they may be too embarrassed or frightened to seek such information.[20][21] However, some recent studies have found that the rate of contraceptive use among teenage girls is roughly the same as that among older women.[22]

In other cases, contraception is used, but proves to be inadequate. Inexperienced adolescents may use condoms incorrectly or forget to take oral contraceptives.

Contraceptive failure rates are higher for teenagers, particularly poor ones, than for older users.[18] Longer term methods such as injections, subcutaneous implants, the vaginal ring, or intrauterine devices last from a month to years and may prevent pregnancy more effectively in women who have trouble following routines, including many young women. The use of more than one contraceptive measure decreases the risk of unplanned pregnancy, and if one is a condom barrier method, the transmission of sexually transmitted disease is also reduced."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy




Vendaval -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:37:47 AM)

[sm=crop.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Glad the girls are getting their taste of lashing out. ;)




farglebargle -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:38:31 AM)

Meanwhile, for some strange reason, TV Networks aren't carrying condom ads....





CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 11:43:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

[sm=crop.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Glad the girls are getting their taste of lashing out. ;)



Bah. Now I have a mental image of lesbian s&m in my head. Thanks a lot. I'm sure the teacher will love it when a Fruedian slip causes me to explain a chemical reaction mechanism in terms of the molecules whipping eachother's bare bottoms, knocking electrons off in the process because they're been naughty ions and deserved it.




caitlyn -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 1:47:14 PM)

I would make an innocent look, but:
 
a) nobody would believe it ...
b) I don't have one anyway ...




thompsonx -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 3:42:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I must agree, caitlyn's willingness to state exactly what is on her mind is wonderful!  [:D]
 
Vendaval:
You are the same way but you are more diplomatic about it and more often right[;)].
thompson


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Running late for work; this has been a good, basically civil discussion, I hope no one goes ballistic before I get back to it [:D]. Have a good day, everyone.


Not me ... I'm hoping to see kSOL come back and start some shit with someone ... or maybe a few more people will talk down to a few others. Does anyone else think Sugar and CL are related? If we are really lucky, maybe some of those with "TOS immunity" will chime in. That would just make everyone's day!!
 
So, Level dear ... take that kinder-gentler stuff to work with you. We don't want it here. [;)][8|][;)]  


caitlyn:
Being a trouble maker and instigator has always endeared you to me.
thompson





Level -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 3:46:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Level:

You want to get bogged down in the semantic argument I see. I'll pass on that.

Call it what you want, it's pertinent.

Ordinary definitions will not do here - the issue is solely whether "the thing" in question has, or should have, any rights under the law and when do those rights become effective.

Yes, the human being in question should have rights. They should begin at conception, in my opinion. You never answered my question, though: until the baby is actually outside the mother's body, it isn't alive, or a "human being"?


Let me ask you this:
When is it proper for one person's rights to supersede those of another person?

One answer is "when one's life is at stake".
 
Dinner time. I'll be back.


And there you have the heart of the matter encapsulated in a single query.





thompsonx -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 3:50:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

"Causes of teenage pregnancy
In some societies, early marriage and traditional gender roles are important factors in the rate of teenage pregnancy. For example, in sub-Saharan Africa, early pregnancy is often seen as a blessing because it is proof of the young woman's fertility.[10] In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage and pregnancy is more common in traditional rural communities compared to the rate in cities.[11]

In societies where adolescent marriage is uncommon, an early age at first intercourse and lack of contraceptive use may be factors.[4][14] Most teenage pregnancies in the developed world appear to be unplanned.[14][15]

Adolescent sexual behavior

See also: Adolescent sexuality
According to information available from the Guttmacher Institute, sex by age 20 is the norm across the world and countries with low levels of adolescent pregnancy accept sexual relationships among teenagers and provide comprehensive and balanced information about sexuality.[16]

However, in a Kaiser Family Foundation study, 29% of teens reported feeling pressure to have sex, 33% of sexually active teens reported "being in a relationship where they felt things were moving too fast sexually", and 24% had "done something sexual they didn’t really want to do".[17] Inhibition-reducing drugs and alcohol may encourage unintended sexual activity.[4][18][17] According to Leonard Sax (a physician and writer about sex differences), girls often become intoxicated before engaging in sexual activities because it "numbs the experience for them, making it less embarrassing and less emotionally painful."[19]

Adolescents may lack knowledge of, or access to, conventional methods of preventing pregnancy, as they may be too embarrassed or frightened to seek such information.[20][21] However, some recent studies have found that the rate of contraceptive use among teenage girls is roughly the same as that among older women.[22]

In other cases, contraception is used, but proves to be inadequate. Inexperienced adolescents may use condoms incorrectly or forget to take oral contraceptives.

Contraceptive failure rates are higher for teenagers, particularly poor ones, than for older users.[18] Longer term methods such as injections, subcutaneous implants, the vaginal ring, or intrauterine devices last from a month to years and may prevent pregnancy more effectively in women who have trouble following routines, including many young women. The use of more than one contraceptive measure decreases the risk of unplanned pregnancy, and if one is a condom barrier method, the transmission of sexually transmitted disease is also reduced."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy


Vendaval:
Interesting note:  The oldest known culture on the planet does not have unplanned pregnancies...they use no chemical or mechanical contraceptives and they fuck like bunnies.
thompson




Level -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 3:59:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Running late for work; this has been a good, basically civil discussion, I hope no one goes ballistic before I get back to it [:D]. Have a good day, everyone.


Not me ... I'm hoping to see kSOL come back and start some shit with someone ... or maybe a few more people will talk down to a few others. Does anyone else think Sugar and CL are related? If we are really lucky, maybe some of those with "TOS immunity" will chime in. That would just make everyone's day!!
 
So, Level dear ... take that kinder-gentler stuff to work with you. We don't want it here. [;)][8|][;)]  


*hands caitlyn a stick, to make shit-stirring easier* [:D]




caitlyn -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:02:46 PM)

I don't stir it L$ ... I encourage other people to stir it. It's a class at Rice.




thompsonx -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:07:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I don't stir it L$ ... I encourage other people to stir it. It's a class at Rice.


caitlyn:
Is this a lower division, upper division or pg class?
thompson




CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:14:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I would make an innocent look, but:

a) nobody would believe it ...
b) I don't have one anyway ...


No one's going to mistake you for innocent, sure. And, sure, you can be immature, annoying, and even plain mean.

But, as long as you're cute.. who cares?




domiguy -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:16:45 PM)

Is there any way to wrestle up some quality pussy out of a thread about abortion?....Just looking for an angle here.




CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:22:22 PM)

Probably by telling the most pro-choice girls you've had a vestectomy (sp?). Because, of course, you don't think women should have to go through the trouble of even thinking of abortion due to a man's actions.




domiguy -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:27:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Probably by telling the most pro-choice girls you've had a vestectomy (sp?). Because, of course, you don't think women should have to go through the trouble of even thinking of abortion due to a man's actions.


Hmmmmmm.....It is unfortunate that the responsibility of birth control tends to fall on the woman.....I'm not sure what you mean regarding your last sentence....Either way....Have as many abortions as you want till your uterus falls out....Still don't quite see how any of us are going to get some snapper out of this thread.




CuriousLord -> RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion (7/18/2007 4:32:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Hmmmmmm.....It is unfortunate that the responsibility of birth control tends to fall on the woman.....I'm not sure what you mean regarding your last sentence....Either way....Have as many abortions as you want till your uterus falls out....Still don't quite see how any of us are going to get some snapper out of this thread.


Yeah.. one gender bearing the brunt of responsiblity, due to it being their body, does add a lot of difficulty to the topc.

And, naw, the second sentence didn't mean anything, outside of just the joke- saying that would be part of what you would tell a woman who was strongly pro-choice to get her in bed. I don't know how you feel one way or the other about it.




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