RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (Full Version)

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bisubclpinohio -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 9:19:00 AM)

Hi ladychatterley, I kinda know what kinda fight you`re having. Its getting more and more commen these days to have a partner with an addiction problem. Dont get lost in it yourself. Here is an article I found a while back that helped me not fall into a hole myself with my wifes problems. Its a little overwhelming, but it may help.


Addiction, Lies and Relationships
Author Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.

Addiction means always having to say you are sorry à and finally, when being sorry is no longer good enough for others who have been repeatedly hurt by the addiction, addiction often means being sorry all alone.
Addiction is often said to be a disease of denial à but it is also a disease of regret. When the addictive process has lasted long enough and penetrated deeply enough into the life and mind of the addict, the empty space left by the losses caused by progressive, destructive addiction is filled up with regrets, if-onlys and could-have-beens. In early addiction the addict tends to live in the future; in middle and late addiction he begins to dwell more and more in the past. And it is usually an unhappy, bitterly regretted past.
The first casualty of addiction, like that of war, is the truth. At first the addict merely denies the truth to himself. But as the addiction, like a malignant tumor, slowly and progressively expands and invades more and more of the healthy tissue of his life and mind and world, the addict begins to deny the truth to others as well as to himself. He becomes a practiced and profligate liar in all matters related to the defense and preservation of his addiction, even though prior to the onset of his addictive illness, and often still in areas as yet untouched by the addiction, he may be scrupulously honest.
First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.
Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress.
One of the chief ways the addiction protects and strengthens itself is by a psychology of personal exceptionalism which permits the addict to maintain a simultaneous double-entry bookkeeping of addictive and non-addictive realities and to reconcile the two when required by reference to the unique, special considerations that àat least in his own mind- happen to apply to his particular case.
The form of the logic for this personal exceptionalism is:
Under ordinary circumstances and for most people X is undesirable/irrational;
My circumstances are not ordinary and I am different from most people;
Therefore X is not undesirable/irrational in my case - or not as undesirable/irrational as it would be in other cases.
Armed with this powerful tool of personal exceptionalism that is a virtual "Open Sesame" for every difficult ethical conundrum he is apt to face, the addict is free to take whatever measures are required for the preservation and progress of his addiction, while simultaneously maintaining his allegiance to the principles that would certainly apply if only his case were not a special one.
In treatment and rehabilitation centers this personal exceptionalism is commonly called "terminal uniqueness." The individual in the grip of this delusion is able to convince himself though not always others that his circumstances are such that ordinary rules and norms of behavior, rules and norms that he himself concurs with when it comes to other people, do not fairly or fully fit himself at the present time and hence must be bent or stretched just sufficiently to make room for his special needs. In most cases this plea for accommodation is acknowledged to be a temporary one and accompanied by a pledge or plan to return to the conventional "rules of engagement" as soon as circumstances permit. This is the basic mindset of "IÇll quit tomorrow" and "If you had the problems I do youÇd drink and drug, too!"
The personal exceptionalism of the addict, along with his willingness to lie both by commission and omission in the protection and furtherance of his addiction, place a severe strain upon his relationships with others. It does not usually take those who are often around the addict long to conclude that he simply cannot be believed in matters pertaining to his addiction. He may swear that he is clean and sober and intends to stay that way when in fact he is under the influence or planning to become so at the first opportunity; he may minimize or conceal the amount of substance consumed; and he may make up all manner of excuses and alibis whose usually transparent purpose is to provide his addiction the room it requires to continue operating.
One of the most damaging interpersonal scenarios occurs when the addict, usually as the consequence of some unforeseen crisis directly stemming from his addiction, promises with all of the sincerity at his command to stop his addictive behavior and never under any circumstances to resume it again.
"I promise," the addict pleads, sometimes with tears in his eyes. "I know I have been wrong, and this time I have learned my lesson. YouÇll never have to worry about me again. It will never happen again!"
But it does happen again à and again, and again, and again. Each time the promises, each time their breaking. Those who first responded to his sincere sounding promises of reform with relief, hope and at times even joy soon become disillusioned and bitter.
Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, youÇll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own. The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "IÇm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do!
Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addictÇs sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addictÇs behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.
As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.
Addiction protects and augments itself by means of a bodyguard of lies, distortions and evasions that taken together amount to a full scale assault upon consensual reality. Because addiction involves irrational and unhealthy thinking and behavior, its presence results in cognitive dissonance both within the addict himself and in the intersubjective realm of ongoing personal relationships.
In order for the addiction to continue it requires an increasingly idiosyncratic private reality subject to the needs of the addictive process and indifferent or even actively hostile to the healthy needs of the addict and those around him. This encroachment of the fundamentally autistic, even insane private reality of the addict upon the reality of his family and close associates inevitably causes friction and churn as natural corrective feedback mechanisms come into usually futile play in an effort to restore the addict's increasingly deviant reality towards normal. Questions, discussions, presentations of facts, confrontations, pleas, threats, ultimatums and arguments are characteristic of this process, which in more fortunate and less severe cases of addiction may sometimes actually succeed in its aim of arresting the addiction. But in the more serious or advanced cases all such human counter-attacks upon the addiction, even, indeed especially when they come from those closest and dearest to the addict, fall upon deaf ears and a hardened heart. The addict's obsession-driven, monomaniacal private reality prevents him from being able to hear and assimilate anything that would if acknowledged pose a threat to the continuance of his addiction.
At this stage of addiction the addict is in fact functionally insane. It is usually quite impossible, even sometimes harmful to attempt to talk him out of his delusions regarding his addiction. This situation is similar to that encountered in other psychotic illnesses, schizophrenia for example, in which the individual is convinced of the truth of things that are manifestly untrue to everyone else. Someone who is deluded in the belief that he is the target of a worldwide conspiracy by some organization will always be able to answer any rational objection to his theory in a fashion that preserves the integrity of his belief system. Even when he is presented with hard and fast data that unequivocally disproves some of his allegations, he will easily find a way to sidestep the contradiction and persist in his false beliefs. (He can for example easily claim that the contradictory data is itself part of the conspiracy and is expressly fabricated for the purpose of making him look crazy! Anyone who has ever tried -uselessly- to reason with delusional patients knows the remarkable creativity and ingenuity that can be displayed in maintaining the viability, at least to the patient, of the most bizarre and obviously erroneous beliefs.)
The addict's delusions that he is harming neither himself nor others by his addictive behaviors; that he is in control of his addiction rather than vice versa; that his addiction is necessary or even useful and good for him; that the circumstances of his life justify his addiction; that people who indicate concern about him are enemies and not friends, and all other such beliefs which are patently and transparently false to everyone but himself, are seldom correctable by reason or objective data and thus indicate the presence of genuinely psychotic thinking which, if it is more subtle than the often grotesque delusions of the schizophrenic, is by virtue of its very subtlety often far more insidious and dangerous to the addict and those with whom he comes into contact. For in the case of the delusional schizophrenic most people are quickly aware that they are dealing with someone not in their right mind - but in the case of the equally or at times even more insane addict, thinking that is in fact delusional may be and commonly is misattributed to potentially remediable voluntary choices and moral decisions, resulting in still more confusion and muddying of the already turbulent waters around the addict and his addiction.
In many cases the addict responds to negative feedback from others about his addiction by following the maxim of "Attack the attacker." Those who confront or complain about the addict's irrational and unhealthy behaviors are criticized, analyzed and dismissed by the addict as untrustworthy or biased observers and false messengers. Their own vulnerabilities may be ruthlessly exposed and exploited by the addict in his desperate defense of his addiction. In many cases, depending upon their own psychological makeup and the nature of their relationship to the addict, they themselves may begin to manifest significant psychological symptoms. Emotional and social withdrawal, secrecy, fear and shame can cause the mental health of those closely involved with addicts to deteriorate. Almost always there is fear, anger, confusion and depression resulting from repeated damaging exposures to the addict's unhealthy and irrational behaviors and their corresponding and supporting private reality.


 




ladychatterley -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 10:11:56 AM)

Thank you, bisubclpinohio, for posting that article.  He's never lied to me, but everything else fits in and I really, really appreciate you posting your first post with such a helpful and prescient piece. 

It is so scary to leave (he broke up with me, but didn't really, if you know what I mean, desparately wants me to stay around, perhaps he didn't think I would actually leave, I'm not sure).  But he went back to a casino last night and I told him goodbye this morning.  It isn't really goodbye, until we disentangle our lives and one of us finds a new apartment, but I put sheets on the couch and plan to sleep out there.  Fundamentally, I have low self-esteem (doh!)--it is a paradox, because intellectually I think pretty highly of myself, but I also have this underlying fear that I'm essentially unlovable.  I was so grateful to find someone who appreciated the things about me that I always wanted someone to appreciate.  We were so close in so many ways and the funny thing is, it is only because of his love and how his love has changed me that I now have the strength to leave him.




asubmissiveheart -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 11:01:24 AM)

An addicted person is already serving 1 powerful Mistress or Master, it is his addiction.
I don't see how he can serve his addiction and you at the same time.
I would not have a relationship with such a person, until they sought treatment, and then
I would still wait a long time even after treatment.




slaveluci -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 11:20:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: j2manj2
Alot of these people have given you VERY EXCELLENT advice, especially those claiming to be "ex" addicts (there's no such animal......they learn to cope, but once an addict, always an addict).

That's one opinion, I suppose, j2manj2.  I'm not really sure where I stand on that.  As I said, I didn't go the therepeutic route.  No programming for me so I don't know all the philosophies and lingo.  All I know is that I used to be strung out like a research monkey and now I'm not[8D].  Call that an "ex addict," "former addict," "recovering addict," or someone who finally pulled her head out of her arse - whatever.  I don't claim to be anything other than what I am - someone who used to shoot up all the time and who now chooses not to.  Label it as you see fit[:)]..........luci




classykindasassy -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 8:00:08 PM)

You can't set yourself up to take this personally and make it be about some idea that you are not good enough to win over an addiction. It really does not have to do with you.

It has to do with the idea that whatever he needs to feel whole and complete, he thinks he will find it in whatever his addiction is. It's about his messed up world view and self view.

You need to do what you need to do for yourself now, and let him alone to face off with himself and the road his addiction leads him down. An addict will always be alone with their drug, no matter who tries to intervene. You have to be alone to abuse, whether you are shutting out the person who is physically there, or staying away by choice. As long as he has his thing, there's nobody really home to be with you. Heal yourself and keep moving.




NefertariReborn -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/15/2007 10:00:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley

Thank you, bisubclpinohio, for posting that article.  He's never lied to me, but everything else fits in and I really, really appreciate you posting your first post with such a helpful and prescient piece. 

It is so scary to leave (he broke up with me, but didn't really, if you know what I mean, desparately wants me to stay around, perhaps he didn't think I would actually leave, I'm not sure).  But he went back to a casino last night and I told him goodbye this morning.  It isn't really goodbye, until we disentangle our lives and one of us finds a new apartment, but I put sheets on the couch and plan to sleep out there.  Fundamentally, I have low self-esteem (doh!)--it is a paradox, because intellectually I think pretty highly of myself, but I also have this underlying fear that I'm essentially unlovable.  I was so grateful to find someone who appreciated the things about me that I always wanted someone to appreciate.  We were so close in so many ways and the funny thing is, it is only because of his love and how his love has changed me that I now have the strength to leave him.


Is it just Me?  All I'm reading from you is a big BUT.  He's an addict, but.  He dumped Me, but.  He is still gambling, but.  I'm going to sleep on the couch, but.  (The apartment thing is super vague --- why aren't YOU out actively looking for a place "[until] one of us finds a new apartment" is so on the fence.  But means forget everything I said before the "but", pay attention to what I say after it.  you're co-dependent.  perhaps addicted to taking care of him.  you need to look into ending your addiction in your own space while he does the same in his. 




Donnalee -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/16/2007 2:08:15 PM)

Good article, bisubclpinohio.

Ladychatterley. ...See how fast things change?  It's amazing.   Now comes the hardest part:  standing up for yourself and what you know is right for you - not to him, but to yourself.  You can do it if you just keep moving forward, and if it gets really really rough, try to at least fall in the right direction.  Seek the help of others facing in the same issues...there's no award for re-inventing the wheel, and it sure beats the lonliness.




camille65 -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/16/2007 2:30:11 PM)

Keep the forward motion going. It can be easy to 'stay on the couch' and feel like things are improving but this isn't something you can fix. Don't drag it out or let it become comfortable. Just remember how upset you were when you made your initial post and what brought you here.
Stay strong in your convictions.




butchy14 -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/16/2007 2:39:59 PM)

Well i would never try to tell someone what to do. i however can share my experience with addiction. No matter what one is addicted too, the addict is the one that must want to stop for themselves. No ultimatum will matter. He must want it for himself. And though one may slip from time to time at first it is up to them to start again. One must love thyself before one can love another.




PAsextoy4u -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/16/2007 6:09:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley

Thank you, bisubclpinohio, for posting that article.  He's never lied to me, but everything else fits in and I really, really appreciate you posting your first post with such a helpful and prescient piece. 

It is so scary to leave (he broke up with me, but didn't really, if you know what I mean, desparately wants me to stay around, perhaps he didn't think I would actually leave, I'm not sure).  But he went back to a casino last night and I told him goodbye this morning.  It isn't really goodbye, until we disentangle our lives and one of us finds a new apartment, but I put sheets on the couch and plan to sleep out there.  Fundamentally, I have low self-esteem (doh!)--it is a paradox, because intellectually I think pretty highly of myself, but I also have this underlying fear that I'm essentially unlovable.  I was so grateful to find someone who appreciated the things about me that I always wanted someone to appreciate.  We were so close in so many ways and the funny thing is, it is only because of his love and how his love has changed me that I now have the strength to leave him.


Yesterday, it was 6 six months since I was released.  It was a sudden, unexpected, cruel, release.  He is a sex addict, and became entangled with a new sub he picked up here on CM.   I knew he was a poly Master, so he starting to train another sub wasnt the problem. 

It was that his sexual addiction took over and he pledged someone he knew only 2 weeks so he could have sex with her.  I was stunned, and when I started to question him about the rules he said he followed, including rules about safe sex, he started getting angry with me.  He didnt like me questioning him about his actions. 

He wasnt being open with me anymore, he was changing his behaviors, and wasnt being honest with me anymore.  It wasnt so much that he was lying to me, it was that he was lying to HIMSELF!   A Master who cant be honest with himself, and cant control his behaviors due to an addiction, is not able to dominate ME and isnt able to sustain an honest, healthy, responsible relationship, in MY opinion.   

And like you, because I had grown so much and had so much more self respect since being his submissive, I was able to walk away and not look back.  I didnt keep trying to go back to him and I didnt contact him. 

I was horribly heart broken, and thought at first I would die without him,  I had been his for 3 1/2 years, and to have him break all his promises to me and to have him release me so cruelly and so unexpectedly, spun me into quite a deep hole for a while.   It was all over in about 30 minutes - 3 1/2 years wiped out when he released me without a reason and without an opportunity to try to save our relationship. 

Now, 6 months later, I am strong again.  I can see now how his sexual addtiction had really taken over almost a year before he released me.  That last year was a rollercoaster ride as he slipped deeper and deeper into his sexual addiction.  And I should have seen it more clearly.

As a recovering alcoholic and trained addictions counselor, how could I have not seen the signs of his slipping down and slipping away???  I know what happens when someone slips into their addiction, when the addiction takes over, and yet I was so blinded to what was happening.  It was my first D/s relationship and he was my first Master.  I was so overwhelmed and swept away by my feelings for him and my deepening submisisveness to him.  I just couldnt see what was happening.

I remember hearing in the beginning of my recovery, almost 22 years ago,  thats its easy to tell when an addict is lying - You can tell they are lying when their lips are moving. That may sound harsh to those of you who are not addicts, but its pretty true for a using addict.  Everytime they speak, if they are using, there is some distortion or misrepresentation of the truth.  They lose the ability to accept the truth within themselves, they lose the ability to tell the truth to others, and mostly, they lose the ability to discern reality from addictive delusions or fantasies.

Im not sure what I would have done differently had I faced the signs of his worsening addictive acting out.  I am grateful that I kept walking away, after being released.  I do believe I was good for him, and that I offered him a strong, healthy, relationship in which he could have grown and become more self aware.  

But he choose to act out and live in his addiction.  And I choose to pick myself up, heal my broken heart, and keep walking away.  At times, early on, I kept hoping he would come to his senses and want to be my Master again.  But as the months passed, and I saw the truth clearer and clearer, I knew I could never trust him agian and I could never serve him again and I could never give my heart to him again.  I came to accept that it was finally, truly, over for ME.  I no longer wanted him as my Maser, and I no longer wanted to be his submissive. 

I occasionally pray for him, because I know the pit of emptiness, of loneliness, of despair that lives deep inside of every using addict.  I hope he finds his ways out of his addiction and finds a way to have a healthy relationship.  I know it is his life and he has to have the courage to change his behavior and change his choices. 

And I have to have the courage to keep moving on, and to be open to another relationship when the time is right.  I am working on keeping the good memories and remembering all of the training he gave me that was good and helpful.  I am a much stronger, more confident, more self assured woman and submissive, and I do have him to thank for that. 

I hope you find the courage and strength that is inside of you to walk away, to find your path in life.  If you are meant to be with him, if he gets well, you can still be with him.  But it sounds like he needs to walk his path alone for awhile,and that allows you to walk a different path now.  I wish you well, and I DO know how hard that will be, how hard it will be to walk away and live without him.      




Corve -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/16/2007 8:47:38 PM)

A submissive woman or slave should never have low self esteme.  It takes great character (and should be well respected by any Dom or master) and is a precious gift for a woman to devote her body and life in submission and obedience.  Lift your head up. 

Master Corve 




julietsierra -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 1:12:26 AM)

I am the ex-spouse of an alcoholic.

The things I learned:
1) He has a mistress. Her name is alcohol. She is stronger than I choose to be.
2) His demons are his demons. They're not my demons. I have my own. I have my own ways of dealing with my demons. I don't ask him to fight my demons. I shouldn't be asked to fight his for him
3) It's insanity to keep doing the same things and always hoping for different outcomes
4) Ultimately, no matter what kind of relationship anyone has, each person is responsible for themselves.
5) I have a responsibility to take care of myself.
6) He's a grown man. If he's hungry, he can feed himself. This extends to alcohol or any other addiction as well. If he needs _______, then it's his job to obtain that - not mine. And it shouldn't be my cost either.
7) What I do is not determined by what he does. I have the ability, responsibility and right to make my own decisions regarding what I want in my life. It is not dependent on what he wants in his.
8) I deserve more of a life than running to the store for his addiction of choice, cleaning up the messes he'd created and trying to keep our family together. He'd already stepped out.
9) I was doing him no favors by helping him hide his addiction
10) I was doing myself no favors by staying when our entire environment was toxic.
11) I had to be the one to say "enough is enough." He wasn't well enough to make those decisions and obviously no one outside our family was going to do it.
12) Leaving just might be the kindest thing I have ever done for him.

I left, It was the kindest thing I ever did for him. It hurt like hell. But staying hurt more. More importantly, it was the kindest thing I ever did for MYSELF. And even more importantly than that... it was the most responsible thing I ever did for my other family members.

I wish I hadn't had to go that route. But I did and we're ALL healthier for it (including him. He stopped drinking about 2 years later when in a sober moment, it hit home what alcohol had cost him.

juliet




chellekitty -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 2:46:58 AM)

an addict will choose comfortable missery over uncomfortable change any day...

i have seen addicts with double digits clean, dragging their way thru the possibility of change, fighting tooth and nail...if they don't want the change they will never do it...

there is another word for codependency when the person who is codependent is in a relationship with an addict...it is co-addicted...you can become addicted to taking care of the other person and forget about yourself...it doesn't help, it enables...




PokerDomResponds -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 4:29:23 AM)

This should make for a lively thread for sure.  I am the DOM in question that LadyChatterly spoke about.  First of all, let me say she is a wonderful caring lovely person.  I have enjoyed my time with her as much as anyone I have ever been with.  If we can not work this out (looks doubtful) she will make someone very happy - its kind of sad its not going to be me. 

That being said, she was slightly disengenuous when talking about the nature of my so called addiction.  She did mention I was addicted to gambling, but did not mention I do not gamble on anything except poker.  This is the only game where you have an edge over the house and can make a living playing it.  You see, I have been playing poker very seriously for about three years in a large metroploitan city which wont be named.   During this time, I have decided that I would like to be a professional poker player in a five year time frame.  Why five years?  Primarily , because thats when my alimony and child support payments stop and I do not think I can responsibly be able to support my ex and family and pursue my dream at the same time.

I am at the point in my life for the first time I work out of the house and have extereml;y flexible hours.  During this time, I have been playing in the evening 3-5 times a week.  I found it very hard to maintain a healthy balance between work, poker, and the rest of my life.  I made a decision to spend Mon-Thursday working at my job as a software engineer and the weekends applying my trade at the poker tables in Vegas.  I made this decision to try to find an appropriate balance between my dayjob and my obsession.  While I am sure I could of come up with some way to manipulate the situation to keep Lady Chatterly and fulfill my ambition, I did not think it fair to her and ended the relationship. 

I guess the serious question now that you have more background is, am I addicted to poker?  The answer is probably yes, the fact is I do not know one professional poker player who does not display some elements of addictive behaviour.  She has pointed out may times to me that I probably might wind up a sucessful professional player, but in a few years I would discover that it didnt bring me any joy.  This also may be the case, but I have a dream and feel the desire (compulsion?) to pursue it.   

I wanted to set the record straight, I do not want this to turn into a he said - she said.  How I hate those threads.  I invite any and all comments.  We are still friends, she is pursuing other relationships and I am pursuing my ambition as well as other people.  We are both damn good people and will eventually make the right person happy - in that I am totally confident.




Laure -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 8:32:17 AM)

He's never lied to me......??  There IS no bigger liar than an addict.




slaveish -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 10:08:27 AM)

~Fast Reply to the OP~

This other person has to ~want~ to be helped - no amount of coercion on your part, not amount of posturing ("he's a hell of a lot more likely to get healthier if I'm in his life") is going to make any difference.

You are exhibiting extreme codependent behavior. That you want to control him, that you want to be more important than his addiction, that you think that you ~are~, is not healthy for either of you. It's time to let go. So ... let go.




LordVelvet -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 10:20:50 AM)

PokerDom,
    Calling a spade a spade yes you are an addict. I have through My own addictions, and 12-Steps, and life. I can see it "written" all over you. This is not an attack. I am just pointing out that as one I see lots of the same things in you, from what you have shared. The question was also asked if going to GA would end Lifestyle. The answer is, for Me, no. Most of the kinky, Lifestyle people I know I met in the rooms over twelve years ago. I wish you well and hope that your "bottom" doesn't leave you completely alone as it does so many.
LordVelvet




Donnalee -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 5:06:02 PM)

quote:

While I am sure I could of come up with some way to manipulate the situation to keep Lady Chatterly and fulfill my ambition, I did not think it fair to her and ended the relationship.

quote:

and I am pursuing my ambition as well as other people.  We are both damn good people and will eventually make the right person happy - in that I am totally confident. 

PokerDom.......there is a bit of a disconnect there.    When you give up a relationship for gambling, it doesn't matter if you want to make it a full time gig or not...you've just traded a person for an activity, which should always be suspect.  Maybe you'd be well served by getting a list of the symptoms of gambling addiction and check yourself.  Or better yet, why don't you go talk to a recovering gambler and see what someone with experience on both sides of the fence has to say to you?  No use beating around the bush.

Another thing to think about:  maybe you just were done with the relationship, and your gambling issues are separate.





slaveish -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 6:48:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Donnalee
Another thing to think about:  maybe you just were done with the relationship, and your gambling issues are separate.


Yeah. That crossed my mind as well.

But if it is an addiction, he has to see it as a problem, and he has to ~want~ to be rescued from it. Until then, this is all pretty pointless.




chellekitty -> RE: Addiction and a Sub's Demands (7/17/2007 8:53:17 PM)

justification and rationalization are tools of the addict...i'm not an addict because i don't do x...if i only do y on the weekend, i can't be an addict....but i am not gonna convince you anymore than you could have convinced me 2 years ago...so to the OP...you can be there for him when he's ready but don't put your life on hold in the mean time...looks like he doesn't have time for you between working and gambling...or in the NA terms the getting and using and finding ways and means to get more....




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