RE: What should America do?

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NavyDDG54 -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:05:00 PM)
The UN is a worthless and corrupt organization with no real power to get anything done. you have 5 countries all with veto power that are so completely opposite of each other(except the US and Britain) that the security council is useless. And the UN is a racist, biased, and corrupt organization. without the balls to do what has to be done. They think that the terrorists will start behaving because the UN asked them to. This is what America should do. Withdraw from the UN and NATO. Strengthen our alliances with key allies, UK, Israel, Germany, Japan, Australia, and Canada. While at the same time work as establish a new NATO, the North American Treaty Organization. Just the US, Canada, Mexico, and the various islands. Solidfy ourserlves. while at the same time continuing to take the battle in the war on terror overseas. we CANNOT afford to fight the war in America. The damage would be too great. I would rather some other country get destroyed by the fighting that America. That may be callous and harsh, but I am an American. I would rather people that I dont know die, then my friends and family. We need to counter the EU. that is where my new "NATO" comes in. We need to strengthen the North American economies. One way to do that is so further solidy our alliance with Japan. The US cannot sit idly by, we NEED to go Global. We are the most powerful and influential country on the planet, but we dont use the full scope of our power and influence. We need to. America needs to become united at home. Debate in politics is good. But not when it's done down party lines. When the libs refuse to consider anything that Bush says and vice versa we are not functioning. We have to be able compromise. And we need to use our power and our influence to further our own interests. America flourished the most when we didnt give a damn what Europe thought. We did what we wanted, when we wanted, how we wanted. And America propsered. Since we started catering to the liberal whining coming out of Europe we started downward. We need to become America again. The exotic land of the free, the name that strikes fear into our enemies, and keeps new ones from popping up.

Level -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I didn't include the EU simp[ly because I don't see them wanting to be "dominated" by the US now that they have started down the road to a "United States of Europe" of sorts. And if the Chinese called in all their markers, well that would be tantamount to a declaration of economic war, so I guess we could just ignore them and seize their assets in return. I realise that I do not paint a pretty picture, what with 4-5 huge trading blocks competing with eachother in a cutthroat world market, but that is the way I see the world going. Let's say we do end up with 4 or 5 blocks; as long as our (or anyone's) block is self-sufficient, then I think it would work. We can't get all of our oil needs? Then we suck it up a little, and use our technological prowess and find alternatives [;)] I really think it could work.

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:06:24 PM)
The US made monumental history with its republic and constitution as as a form of government. Now we need to follow that constitution. Government should be brought down to a county level. All voting should have receipts and vote counters elected from each county same day as the voting day and so forth. Voting by writing in a name only on paper only No constitutional amendment can be made without a 75% vote from registered citizens. The states should take back their sovereignity and disavow themselves of imposed and supposed federal control. 75% vote from the public can repeal anything but inalienable rights. Go back to quid pro q money system get rid of the frederal reserve and transfer all money management back to the people via the treasury department. All federal services to be transfered to non federal government organizations with direct oversight from the states and finally counties. 2/3's national vote to impeach get rid of all laws that fly under the "color" of law and replace the constitution building new law within its guidelines. Remove this country from its eternal state of emergency. Educate "without filtering" the history of this country. Organize peoples government watch to insure our business is being conducted within the limitations WE allow. Limit secrecy to an extreme minimum. Executive priviledge does not exist, prosecute for offenses. Absolute government oversight by the people Form state militias to enforce the will of the people should the government not comply. Form peoples legal oversight committees such that we directly monitor the injustice system to insure peoples rights are not abused or abridged. Elect one supreme court judge from each state. return to common law hearings and deal with it Make government impossible to be taken over by special interests and the super wealthyas it is now. In a word bringing the government to the people will breed a society that is involved in the government as opposed to "doing it for us" as it is now and breeding a country of nit wits where 50% dont even bother to vote. This is just the tip of the iceburg and the list is huge. i think itws important to wipe our own ass before talking about how shitty other countries are. Waco, Murrah building, 911, <insert the next government abortion here>

Level -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:21:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54 The UN is a worthless and corrupt organization with no real power to get anything done. you have 5 countries all with veto power that are so completely opposite of each other(except the US and Britain) that the security council is useless. And the UN is a racist, biased, and corrupt organization. without the balls to do what has to be done. They think that the terrorists will start behaving because the UN asked them to. This is what America should do. Withdraw from the UN and NATO. Strengthen our alliances with key allies, UK, Israel, Germany, Japan, Australia, and Canada. What about countries like the Netherlands, Poland, Denmark, etc? Does our all being in NATO not create a unifying factor? Which helps in developing trade, etc? While at the same time work as establish a new NATO, the North American Treaty Organization. Just the US, Canada, Mexico, and the various islands. Solidfy ourserlves. while at the same time continuing to take the battle in the war on terror overseas. we CANNOT afford to fight the war in America. The damage would be too great. I would rather some other country get destroyed by the fighting that America. That may be callous and harsh, but I am an American. I would rather people that I dont know die, then my friends and family. Would tightening our borders keep "the war" away from here? That, and leaving the Arabs be? Of course, they'd still be angry that we're supporting Israel. We need to counter the EU. that is where my new "NATO" comes in. We need to strengthen the North American economies. One way to do that is so further solidy our alliance with Japan. The US cannot sit idly by, we NEED to go Global. We are the most powerful and influential country on the planet, but we dont use the full scope of our power and influence. We need to. America needs to become united at home. Debate in politics is good. But not when it's done down party lines. When the libs refuse to consider anything that Bush says and vice versa we are not functioning. We have to be able compromise. At times, absolutely. And we need to use our power and our influence to further our own interests. America flourished the most when we didnt give a damn what Europe thought. What about the argument that we "didn't give a damn what Europe thought" when going into Iraq? That didn't result in positives for us. We did what we wanted, when we wanted, how we wanted. And America propsered. Since we started catering to the liberal whining coming out of Europe we started downward. We need to become America again. The exotic land of the free, the name that strikes fear into our enemies, and keeps new ones from popping up. Yes, some liberals whine. As do some conservatives. And some moderates. I'm not sure the name-calling or anger helps solve anything, and again, I know I do it too, at times.

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54 The UN is a worthless and corrupt organization with no real power to get anything done. you have 5 countries all with veto power that are so completely opposite of each other(except the US and Britain) that the security council is useless. And the UN is a racist, biased, and corrupt organization. without the balls to do what has to be done. They think that the terrorists will start behaving because the UN asked them to. This is what America should do. Withdraw from the UN and NATO. Strengthen our alliances with key allies, UK, Israel, Germany, Japan, Australia, and Canada. While at the same time work as establish a new NATO, the North American Treaty Organization. Just the US, Canada, Mexico, and the various islands. Solidfy ourserlves. while at the same time continuing to take the battle in the war on terror overseas. we CANNOT afford to fight the war in America. The damage would be too great. I would rather some other country get destroyed by the fighting that America. That may be callous and harsh, but I am an American. I would rather people that I dont know die, then my friends and family. We need to counter the EU. that is where my new "NATO" comes in. We need to strengthen the North American economies. One way to do that is so further solidy our alliance with Japan. The US cannot sit idly by, we NEED to go Global. We are the most powerful and influential country on the planet, but we dont use the full scope of our power and influence. We need to. America needs to become united at home. Debate in politics is good. But not when it's done down party lines. When the libs refuse to consider anything that Bush says and vice versa we are not functioning. We have to be able compromise. And we need to use our power and our influence to further our own interests. America flourished the most when we didnt give a damn what Europe thought. We did what we wanted, when we wanted, how we wanted. And America propsered. Since we started catering to the liberal whining coming out of Europe we started downward. We need to become America again. The exotic land of the free, the name that strikes fear into our enemies, and keeps new ones from popping up. yep the UN CFR TC etc etc etc all part of the global bs. There is not easy solution and as long as we plan on keeping our butts parked on their turf will only make it worse. They will never ever never ever never let this go not after what we have just done. GW paved the way. We will more likely wind up with them here if we continue on our present course than if we simply get out. As for isreal FUCK EM. Give them to the UK they made em let them take care of them. The only way we are going to get america united is to get people involved and the only way we can do that is to educate them make their votes count and replace all the lies and bullshit with statesmanship and honor. You call freedom in a country that you cannot even get drugs you need? Many 3rd world countries you can go into any drug store and ask for what ever drug you want and get it! You call freedom attempting to pass legislation to ban herbals? Freedom is a fantasy in this country, and now police with armored cars supplies by homenazi security to deliver warrants. The cia to disrupt governemtns including our own and put in leaders of their choice? How about the coup on kennedy? get me started lol i do agree however that we need to get off our asses and make some major changes.

luckydog1 -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:33:15 PM)
"I would think that if the US was part of a major trading block (which would obviously be the strongest such block simply given US membership) then trading or not trading with other countries would likely be a much more powerful inducement to those other countries behaving in whatever manner the US (along with its block partners)deemed desirable. Foreign aid could also be tied to the actions of the recipient countries. One never knows, but I suspect that over time more and more countries would see it to be in their self interest to seek closer ties to a US led trading block, leading towards a world government based on the general lines that are seen in the west as desirable (fair & open elections, stable political systems that are not based on coups, etc.)" This is a description of the WTO, and is indeed what is happening. I would like to see a world parliment as an adjunct to the WTO. Say one representative for each 500,000 people. There would be a lot of people, but much of the work could be done on line/virtually. Have the districts intentionally gerrymandered to be trans national and minority nation representative (ie make sure indegeinous groups like the Basques or navajos are represented) And have real requirements for human rights and open democratic government and free elections in order for a member to be seated. At first no power to this body, just advisory, but overtime and once there was 100% of the globe involved, it could take on more power, and be the basis for a real world government. Perhaps a bicameral one with the People represented at one house, and the Nation States in a different house. The idea of going back to isolation or non interference is simply nonsense. We are engaged with the world no matter what.

BlackKnight -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:35:39 PM)
let's let the UN handle things from now on and mind our own damned business. we are NOT the global police. -michaelOfGeorgia Sure can you say oil for food? Sure and lets give our guns to the U.N. too. Should we stay in the UN? What if the UN acts in a way not in America's best interest? -Level ::::Apause::::We keep supporting it thou :( maybe America should adapt a "Prime Directive" of non-interference. -michaelOfGeorgia Hey Great idea, like we did after 'the war to end all wars' ie WWI. oh wait, there was another war after that, one, and we tried to stay out of it. The war that would have been over long before it did finally end. We were dragged into WWII by Japan attacking us. Otherwise we would have let hitler and Japan continue to take over the world. Eventually it would have been the poor lil U.S. against them. The U.N. was supposed to come to the aid of lil countries. Ha what a laugh, the only reason housane was caught was because we decided to finish desert storm. And let's face the facts Iran and Korea are going to be serious problems. so should we ignore them too? dig a hole and hide our heads in it? The United States needs to secure it's borders first, keep our ear to the ground, our nose to the air. We need a base in Iraq! Period! We need a base of operations on that side of the world. One with easy striking range of Iran. Protect Isreal! Establish a forcein the middle east and protection for Iraq (lets face it they need protection from their neighbors). I'm tired of hearing about 'no right to put a base there', We placed bases in Germany and Japan, Why not in Iraq? When did we get incredibly stupid?? The U.S. should choose it's wars to fight. Don't let the wars choose us.

luckydog1 -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:37:10 PM)
The idea of a trading block of USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Britian, Russia, and the EU is what is called the "White Peoples Club". And it isn't going to work because America is getting dark pretty quickly.

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:41:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackKnight The U.N. was supposed to come to the aid of lil countries. Ha what a laugh, the only reason housane was caught was because we decided to finish desert storm. And let's face the facts Iran and Korea are going to be serious problems. so should we ignore them too? dig a hole and hide our heads in it? yah we caught hussein but the "supposed" number 1 war criminal, cialqaeda aside from bush, just slipped right through our radar... i agree that korea is troublesome. sux when they can bring a gun to a gun fight.

popeye1250 -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 1:49:50 PM)
Out of things like the "U.N." (obviously) NATO NAFTA and all those one-way trade deals. Out of most "Treaties" which trade deals really are. No intervention in most cases. "Ethnic cleansing"? "Genocide?" We may parachute in guns and ammo so YOU can defend yourselves. No more "foreign aid", period. If an individual wants to donate their money to foreign countries, fine. No more immigration for 20 years. If there are people willing to work for $6 an hour then we don't "need" immigration. We have about 20-30 million people here now who are going to have to leave. When we get that done then maybe we can think about immigration again but not millions of people a year like now! A more realistic number would be 100,000 per year. In 2005 we took in enough immigrants legally to populate Philadelphia! (I think it was 3.8 million) We obviousl;y can't continue down that road. No more of those "H1B" visas either. And, we don't "need" to trade with every country on earth or to have embasseys in every single country on earth! It's not the job of the govt. to be worrying about if "the consumer" has enough cheap, imported, plastic junk to buy! We're up to our fuckin' EARS in the stuff now! To U.S. companies, if you want to make it overseas fine, sell it overseas! Don't pull that shit and then expect access to OUR markets! We can have relations with foreign countries without giving them billions of dollars. But, try telling that to those MORONS in the State Dept. No more "career" people in the State Dept except for the janitorial staff! The President goes, YOU go! You "take care of your own house first." Didn't Benjamin Franklin say that? All electees to office should be required to take a civics class and complete readings on The Constitution, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and a few others. All elections should be financed by the Taxpayers. Want to run for Senate? Fine, ALL candidates can only get AND SPEND $1million so give it your best shot and try and make it last! That way you cut out all the private donations and most of the corruption.

kossack -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:01:26 PM)
At this point, we can't become isolationist, but HOW we engage with the world is incredibly important. In the last 4 years, we have blown all the good will we had throughout much of the world. Regardless of whether we are a young country or not, we had an enormous amount of goodwill in the world, because of the Marshall plan and because, I think, we were seen as relatively benign, and then, well, we got crazy. It was like the crazy right-wingers took the crazy left wingers' critiques of American power as a playbook, and all of a sudden, Noam Chomsky seemed relevant. From here--we have to start building bridges. It doesn't matter if we are the most powerful country in the world, we cannot go it alone. We need to withdraw from Iraq, with as much hulimity and foresight as possible. We must stop supporting Israel, regardless, and become an honest broker for peace in the region. We must increase student visas, so kids from all over the world can come here again and see American with their own eyes. We need to value soft power and invest in building it. In all honesty, I doubt seriously that we can repair the damage that Bush/Cheney have done in my lifetime, but I'm old--in my mid 30s. I've only got another 50 years or so on this planet. I don't think, at this point, we can ever regain our soft power and we will have encouraged the EU to create a counterpoint and of course China and India, but we can learn to live with other world powers and hopefully become and ex-superpower the way England, Portugal, Spain, France and finally Germany have, rather than the way Rome went, where it took down much of the civilized world with it. We need to realize that we can have happy, joyous, fulfilling lives without being "number 1" and just being part of a community.

spiral23 -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:23:15 PM)
NAVYDDG said..."I would rather some other country get destroyed by the fighting that America. That may be callous and harsh, but I am an American. I would rather people that I dont know die, then my friends and family." Its this exact attitude that causes the rest of the world to struggle with america....its our friends, its our kids , its our family that your asking to die for america....im not some anti american nutter....but this attitude really makes me angry....how do you think those who already have"issues" with america feel when they here this....no wonder you got so much trouble!

CuriousLord -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:41:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: "North Carolinia worker" is thought of in Virginia.. Not to derail, but ironically in Norfolk, 'bus from Carolina' has a very real, and very unfortunate connotation. Those workers are indeed looked down on by some portion of the Virginia citizenry. But it does serve to illustrate your excellent point about drawing artifical lines on the map, or a family tree, and treating fellow humans as 'the others'. It's a good observation. It does serve to make the point, actually. It's taken a long time for people to identify more by "America" than "[some state]". But this isn't total, with both that many people still identify with state some and that some people may still identity primarily with state. I think it'll be like this, after globalization, too. I feel that, overall, people are feeling more strongly towards globe over country. Still, this is only a changing tendancy, not that it's either the majority nor that it will necessarily be soon.

seeksfemslave -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:45:14 PM)
Speaking domestically ie not foreign policy I think the US would be a more civilised society if it shifted a little to the political Left and had more compassion and concern at government level for the underdog and the underprivileged. Odd from a hard line Right Winger like me but that is what I think .

Alumbrado -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado As to the OP, the US should probably worry first and foremost about its internal afflictions. Anything we try to do in the world is bound to be sabotaged or greatly disadvantaged by the corruption wrought in pursuit of money and power. Some sort of initiative to divest the government of political parties and career politicians, would be the best starting point IMHO. Such as? And I realize it may take a little time to come up with some details, so anyone needing that time, please take it. Well, expanding (and enforcing) the Hatch Act to cover elected officials would be one possible avenue. And the one that no one wants to talk about: "...on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments..." http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlev.html

Arpig -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:52:10 PM)
quote: And it isn't going to work because America is getting dark pretty quickly. I think you have actually overlooked the basis I used to determine who the US's natural allies were. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with basic social and political outlook. I would have included Japan and South Korea, except I see them working together to form and dominate an Asian trading block, and I specifically excluded the EU, also because I don't see them submitting to a US-led trading block. South Africa is another country that I see as a possible member of this theoretical block. Remember, I did not say that I think this world model (4-5 supra-national states) is a good one, just that I think it is the way things are going, and in that case then the US should, for its own sake, start picking its partners while they are still available...and if that looks to you like a "white man's club" then perhaps that is because the most advanced countries in the world just happen to be mostly white and by-products of the British Empire. The US is the heir of the British Empire, it just needs to seize its inheritance and make use of the economic power that empire still controls. I see a future where economic warfare will mostly replace shooting wars, much as it did during the cold war...and make no mistake the US engaged in a decades-long campaign to destroy the soviet economy, culminating in the brilliant "Star Wars" program, a program that was never intended to actually produce a missile defense system, but was simply meant to pour billions the soviets didn't have into esoteric research programs, thus forcing the soviets to try and compete, which finally broke the back of their economy, forcing glasnost & perestroika and the eventual implosion of the soviet empire...just as Rickover forsaw when he originated the whole idea of a cold war.

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 2:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: "North Carolinia worker" is thought of in Virginia.. Not to derail, but ironically in Norfolk, 'bus from Carolina' has a very real, and very unfortunate connotation. Those workers are indeed looked down on by some portion of the Virginia citizenry. But it does serve to illustrate your excellent point about drawing artifical lines on the map, or a family tree, and treating fellow humans as 'the others'. It's a good observation. It does serve to make the point, actually. It's taken a long time for people to identify more by "America" than "[some state]". But this isn't total, with both that many people still identify with state some and that some people may still identity primarily with state. I think it'll be like this, after globalization, too. I feel that, overall, people are feeling more strongly towards globe over country. Still, this is only a changing tendancy, not that it's either the majority nor that it will necessarily be soon. just what we need: jump from the frying pan to the fire. go from a corrupt federal gov agenda to a more corrupt global gov. Hearing this kind of talk makes me happy i will be dead and gone in 40 more years. Nice way to cut off your nose despite your face.

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 3:00:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado As to the OP, the US should probably worry first and foremost about its internal afflictions. Anything we try to do in the world is bound to be sabotaged or greatly disadvantaged by the corruption wrought in pursuit of money and power. Some sort of initiative to divest the government of political parties and career politicians, would be the best starting point IMHO. Such as? And I realize it may take a little time to come up with some details, so anyone needing that time, please take it. Well, expanding (and enforcing) the Hatch Act to cover elected officials would be one possible avenue. And the one that no one wants to talk about: "...on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments..." http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlev.html that amendment in cornell link only works in a "representative" government

Real0ne -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 3:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I see a future where economic warfare will mostly replace shooting wars, much as it did during the cold war...and make no mistake the US engaged in a decades-long campaign to destroy the soviet economy, culminating in the brilliant "Star Wars" program, a program that was never intended to actually produce a missile defense system, but was simply meant to pour billions the soviets didn't have into esoteric research programs, thus forcing the soviets to try and compete, which finally broke the back of their economy, forcing glasnost & perestroika and the eventual implosion of the soviet empire...just as Rickover forsaw when he originated the whole idea of a cold war. sounds a bit like our 100 year war (94 to go), against the dimensionless terrorist. look at our deficit.

Alumbrado -> RE: What should America do? (7/15/2007 3:13:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne that amendment in cornell link only works in a "representative" government Errrmm.. it is Article 5 of the Constitution, not an amendment. And it is your fault if you don't have control over your representatives, isn't it?

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