quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I apologize, but I will discontinue contributing to the thread from hereon, mainly because the back and forth that has gone on has actually derailed the original intention of this thread into commentaries that are part of the fill in the blank commentaries that come from other threads, like "I do things my way, and therefore I don't play games" which actually is feeding into the problem I was talking about before.

Sorry littlesarbonn, but I think that's a lame excuse.  Threads have a life of their own and wander around wherever they happen to go.  Entire wars have been fought in the middle of some before they ever began to get on track or to the intended subject.  If you didn't get the feedback or the enlightened discussion you were looking for, it's entirely your choice as to whether or not to attempt to further explain to the rest of us what you were trying to communicate to those of us who apparently don't seem to "get it" from what was in your OP.

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For my last comment on this thread (forgetting about 90 percent of what has been printed in this thread), the point is that over the last decade, relationships in bdsm seem to have turned into D/s-lite because instead of the environment AFTER the negotiation, relationships still tend to be watered down with "I don't have to put my foot down because if he doesn't want to serve me, then I don't want him".

Unfortunately, nearly everything in our society today is considered "disposable"; particularly people when it comes to relationships.  I don't think you can expect to negotiate a relationship without first taking the time to get to know someone.  If you do, I think something is amiss.  The point being, IMO, there needs to be a bond of some kind before there's a negotiation in order for a genuine relationship to exist.  Otherwise, neither party has anything invested in the relationship, only in the negotiation process.  That's one of the things that makes things awkward or difficult for both women and men when first meeting each other in this lifestyle.

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What has happened, and I kind of suspected this myself, is that the whole spectrum of bdsm has moved so far to one end that practically EVERYONE in it responds from the edges of that new spectrum, incapable of observing anything that exists outside of the present limitations.

Aren't you really saying "Different strokes for different folks?" without further explaining or describing what your preferred stroke is like? 

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Now, an immediate response may be to argue with me or tell me how I'm wrong, or whatever, but please don't. Continue the thread as you were all doing. My contributions further are irrelevant as I don't feel anyone actually understood what I was saying in the first place because people kept trying to cookie cutter what I said into what everyone has been discussing in so many other threads rather than take it the next step. And that's okay. I was trying to address something much deeper than the standard conversations we had here, and I failed.

I don't want to argue with you at all, only to understand what you were trying to communicate to us.  But as it's "much deeper than the standard conversations here", thanks for sharing your last word on the subject in such a condescending manner!

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I apologize, but I will discontinue contributing to the thread from hereon, mainly because the back and forth that has gone on has actually derailed the original intention of this thread into commentaries that are part of the fill in the blank commentaries that come from other threads, like "I do things my way, and therefore I don't play games" which actually is feeding into the problem I was talking about before. For my last comment on this thread (forgetting about 90 percent of what has been printed in this thread), the point is that over the last decade, relationships in bdsm seem to have turned into D/s-lite because instead of the environment AFTER the negotiation, relationships still tend to be watered down with "I don't have to put my foot down because if he doesn't want to serve me, then I don't want him". It's like so many new guard relationships are sprinkled with this new attitude that I feel like I traveled forward in a time machine and see something different than things used to be.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

But to acknowledge what he really wants is a woman that backs up her authority with a whip, with a cage, with a smile in her sadistic words, with an erotic rush from enforcement, with a playful desire to see him jump through hoops -- well, the more you start defining that, the more you sound like you are ordering off a menu and it does not jive with the image of the service submissive.

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ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I agree with Dianna, my walls are high because the right submissive will jump over them.
My initial expectations and standards are high, to weed out the flakes and those that are not
willing to work to get me.
I agree with the initial training period to keep those that are not serious away.
Great post Dianna.

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo



I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy.

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ORIGINAL: pixelslave


I don't want to argue with you at all, only to understand what you were trying to communicate to us.  But as it's "much deeper than the standard conversations here", thanks for sharing your last word on the subject in such a condescending manner!
 
 

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ORIGINAL: realtuffdom

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo



I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy.

Doh, the system overrode with my joke dom account from yesterday. This was me who posted this.

I didn't say the discussion hasn't been useful. It's just not useful to me. Many people are still discussing things back and forth and that's great. They've moved way beyond what I was discussing and went in a different direction, so I stated I would bow out of the conversation because I don't believe the majority actually understood what I was saying. That's fine. The conversation can whatever direction it wants to go, but there are still people addressing me, as if expecting me to answer, and the conversation is no longer about anything I was actually discussing, so I have no opinion further on the thread in the direction it took.

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ORIGINAL: realtuffdom

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ORIGINAL: realtuffdom

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo



I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy.

Doh, the system overrode with my joke dom account from yesterday. This was me who posted this.

I didn't say the discussion hasn't been useful. It's just not useful to me. Many people are still discussing things back and forth and that's great. They've moved way beyond what I was discussing and went in a different direction, so I stated I would bow out of the conversation because I don't believe the majority actually understood what I was saying. That's fine. The conversation can whatever direction it wants to go, but there are still people addressing me, as if expecting me to answer, and the conversation is no longer about anything I was actually discussing, so I have no opinion further on the thread in the direction it took.

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta


Sarbonn I do know where you are coming from and I also have a pretty deceit idea about your situation since we have chatted and been in contact over the years. What I am about to tell you I’ve told you before.
 
 
 
Set your sites and then begin living the dream. If being the property of a dominant Goddess is your goal then give it 150%. Not by just showing up but with your actions. Don’t get side tracked by little challenges or feel that what you’re offering isn’t enough. Always strive to stand out and be important in her life.
 

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

But to acknowledge what he really wants is a woman that backs up her authority with a whip, with a cage, with a smile in her sadistic words, with an erotic rush from enforcement, with a playful desire to see him jump through hoops -- well, the more you start defining that, the more you sound like you are ordering off a menu and it does not jive with the image of the service submissive.

You know, buying into the BS that saying what you want during initial communcation and during negotiation is undermining one's ability to find and succeed in a Ds relationship. Buying into the BS that the slave/sub can't communicate what they need just makes it worse because then even after the best negotiation there is no realistic room for the normal changes human beings go through -- again a set up for failure.

Buying into the BS only promotes the BS.

Someone who does not understand the difference between communication and "ordering off the menu" is someone whom I would consider not yet ready for a Ds relationship longer than a few hours of fun.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a bitch but I want people to have successful Ds relationships and when I see the same issues over and over it starts to piss me off because it feels like everyone wants it to be perfect but isn't willing to do the work to even make it good. I know there are new people to the group all the time so these things will come up but when people I've seen since I joined keep repeating their same problems or their same unsuccessful approaches it wears at me.

I am pointing my finger at any one in particular here -- just went off on a rant because it makes me sad and pissed that someone out there might think that communicating needs makes one less than a good submissive.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It always goes back to the same point though.  The more clearly you can define what it is you seek, the more likely you are to find it.  Be clear about your expectations.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: MisPandora

You seem to have hit the nail on the head in terms of what I've observed as well.  I never used to have to put in an ad or an online listing, "Do it my way or be gone" because people who took the time to approach invested that time wisely and were serious about the approach.  They weren't typing it with one hand.

Has it affected me?  Sure has.  I don't even raise my level of dominance to meet someone until I'm damn good and sure they're for real and we're on a path to meeting face to face, and sometimes not until that happens.  And sometimes, it takes me longer than after we've met (for those I meet at an event, munch, etc.) I don't trust people who feel the need to tell me of their submission, as I have learned that acts of demonstration speak far louder than their words could possibly express.  I take everything said to me with a grain of salt, and a pound of investigation.

This seems to me to be symptomatic of our society in general, not necessarily of this lifestyle.  People are often afraid to reveal who they really are as genuine people and attempt to put on airs of some sort in order try and "fit-in" with what they think others expect of them.  I saw a lot of this in the community in which I used to live, where people appeared more concerned with the clothes one wore and how well manicured their lawn was than the substance within their neighbors.

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Does my unwillingness to dom them immediately lose some interest?  I'm sure, but if they were that easily dissuaded by my wanting to be sure of them, do they have what it takes to be my supplicant?  Not likely.

If and when I get them past that point of engaging in a power exchange relationship with them, that's when the "do it or leave" philosophy takes a back burner and the "do it or pay the consequences" firmness sets in.  There are dealbreakers that will still force me to pull out the "do that again and you're gone" card, but those are few and far between.

Again, isn't this also about not connecting with others as human beings who are real people and developing relationships on that level first before establishing a power exchange?  We live in a society where most things are designed to be disposable.  Corporations treat their employees in that manner.  It permeates the way many people think today in our society: "Try some and if you don't like the first sip, you can throw the whole can away!"  It's part of the expectation that we can all find instant gratification.  It seems to me that it started with drugs and casual sex, then increasingly moved into other aspects of our culture. most notably relationships and the breakdown of families/long-term relationships.  It's too easy to "dispose" of something we have a problem with, particularly people we're involved in a relationship with, than to make a commitment to work out the problems we have with them.  I think that's rather sad, but true.

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ORIGINAL: MisPandora
...... raise my level of dominance