RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/19/2007 8:12:31 AM)

quote:

I believe your child is extremely fortunate to have your support Arpig.

 
Thanks, but the credit really goes to the ex




philosophy -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/19/2007 3:37:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

No, Philosophy not a single child failed to recieve an imunization due to the Gov not giving creedence to the nonsense scare (with a profit motive).  Children did not get them due to parents refusing to get them.  In the UK does that require pulling the child from the school system, as it does in the USA?   IF you think the evil ...illuminatti/communists/facists/corparationswhoever they are,lots of choices.... are putting poison in the vaccines, you would not trust the single shot vaccine either. 


......well, maybe that's how it would play in Alaska. However in the UK before the scare there was a good uptake of single shot vaccines. It was the specific scare over MMR that caused the problems and the subsequent dip. Most people that i spoke to were worried about the multiple vaccines, as other news stories at the time had suggested that the multiple vaccinations given to Gulf War 1 troops was a cause of Gulf War Syndrome.




abytchgoddess4u -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/19/2007 8:20:42 PM)

You wanted reputable evidence?

I'll give you some...but with a slightly different twist. I don't believe vaccines 'cause' autism, but I do believe that mercury toxicity mimics autism and many children are misdiagnosed as autistic when they are toxic. I also think that exposure often begins in pregnancy and not all cases should be attributed to vaccine exposure.

Here is a link to a retrospective study discussing the downward trend of autism rates since Thimerosal was removed from vaccines...published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume11, Number1, Spring06.

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no1/geier.pdf

There is a criticism of the article and a response from the authors published in the next issue of the magazine, which may clarify any questions you may have. http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/correspondence.pdf

Secondly, a reference from Emedicine discussing the causes and symptoms of mercury toxicity/poisoning.

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic813.htm

It discusses all types, but I ask you to look at the  organic types specifically, as Thimerosal is an organomercury.   Organomercury compounds are the methylmercury cation, CH3Hg+; ethylmercury cation, C2H5Hg+; dimethylmercury, (CH3)2Hg, and Merbromin ("Mercurichrome").

These quotes will be of most relevance...

"
Alkyl organic mercury has high lipid solubility and is distributed uniformly throughout the body, accumulating in the brain, kidney, liver, hair, and skin. Organic mercurials also cross the blood brain barrier and placenta and penetrate erythrocytes, attributing to neurological symptoms, teratogenic effects, and high blood to plasma ratio, respectively."

"
Methylmercury has a high affinity for sulfhydryl groups, which attributes to its effect on enzyme dysfunction. One enzyme that is inhibited is choline acetyl transferase, which is involved in the final step of acetylcholine production. This inhibition may lead to acetylcholine deficiency, contributing to the signs and symptoms of motor dysfunction."(Acetylcholine is important for learning and memory as well.)

"
  • Organic mercury poisoning usually results from ingestion of contaminated food. The long chain and aryl forms of organic mercury have similar characteristics of inorganic mercury toxicity.
    • The onset of symptoms usually is delayed (days to weeks) after exposure.
    • Organic mercury targets enzymes, and the depletion of these enzymes must occur before the onset of symptoms.
    • Symptoms related to toxicity are typically neurological, such as visual disturbance (eg, scotomata, visual field constriction), ataxia, paresthesias (early signs), hearing loss, dysarthria, mental deterioration, muscle tremor, movement disorders, and, with severe exposure, paralysis, and death.
    • Organic mercury targets specific sites in the brain, including the cerebral cortex (especially visual cortex), motor and sensory centers (precentral and postcentral cortex), auditory center (temporal cortex), and cerebellum.
  • All forms of mercury are toxic to the fetus, but methylmercury most readily passes through the placenta. Even with an asymptomatic patient, maternal exposure can lead to spontaneous abortion or retardation."

    "
    • The causes of organic mercury toxicity include antiseptics, bactericidals, embalming agents, the farming industry, fungicides, germicidal agents, insecticidal products, laundry products, diaper products, paper manufacturing, pathology products, histology products, seed preservation, and wood preservatives.
    • Another route of organic mercury exposure is thimerosal, an additive preservative used in vaccines to prevent bacterial contamination. The most commonly used vaccines that contain Thimerosal are for diphtheria-tetanus-whole cell pertussis (DTP), Haemophilus influenzae (HIB), and hepatitis B." (Hep B vaccines should no longer have Thimerosal, but I'm not sure about DPT and HIB.)

      Funnily enough, seems like the NIH is curious about mercury poisoning and autism too...they're doing a study with regard to treatment of children with autism by chelation.

      http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00376194

      As to 'actual' autism increases, I think it's much more related to the use of ultrasound and doppler use in pregnancy.

      ETA: The Center for Children’s Health and the Environment (CCHE) of Mount Sinai School of Medicine used the CDC's OWN data on infants' cord blood levels of mercury to show the potential loss of income of those infants...since mercury poisoning has been shown to decrease IQ levels.

      http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/7743/abstract.html




Arpig -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/19/2007 8:46:36 PM)

Some interesting, and rather compelling stuff. I seem to recall something about mercury being a factor, but like I said the my reading/research was done a long time ago, and the old memory just ain't what she used to be (to much LDS in the 60's)




DomKen -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/19/2007 11:38:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abytchgoddess4u

You wanted reputable evidence?

I'll give you some...but with a slightly different twist. I don't believe vaccines 'cause' autism, but I do believe that mercury toxicity mimics autism and many children are misdiagnosed as autistic when they are toxic. I also think that exposure often begins in pregnancy and not all cases should be attributed to vaccine exposure.

Here is a link to a retrospective study discussing the downward trend of autism rates since Thimerosal was removed from vaccines...published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume11, Number1, Spring06.

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no1/geier.pdf

There is a criticism of the article and a response from the authors published in the next issue of the magazine, which may clarify any questions you may have. http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/correspondence.pdf


I hardly think Geier and Geier are credible sources.
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/03/mark-geier-untrustworthy-autism.html
http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/latest-on-geier-retraction.html




abytchgoddess4u -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/20/2007 4:07:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I hardly think Geier and Geier are credible sources.
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/03/mark-geier-untrustworthy-autism.html
http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/latest-on-geier-retraction.html


Which is why I mentioned the editorial criticism and response. Are you also suggesting that the other sources I cited...like the NIH, Mt. Sinai, the CDC, and AAPS are suspect?

Ultimately, one cannot negate the evidence.





DomKen -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/20/2007 10:10:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abytchgoddess4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I hardly think Geier and Geier are credible sources.
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/03/mark-geier-untrustworthy-autism.html
http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/latest-on-geier-retraction.html


Which is why I mentioned the editorial criticism and response. Are you also suggesting that the other sources I cited...like the NIH, Mt. Sinai, the CDC, and AAPS are suspect?

Ultimately, one cannot negate the evidence.



No but I have yet to see any evidence presented showing any actual mercury poisoning caused by vaccinations. The quantity of mercury is tiny even when compare to the EPA's safe level. Anyway quacks have been selling mercury chelation as a treatment for autism for the better part of a decade with no evidence of any successful outcomes.

Also it needs to be stressed that heavy metal poisoning has pretty clear and well understood effects on neuro development. We simply don't see those signs in the autistic.

I fully understand that parents faced with an autism diagnosis want to know why but blaming one of the great lifesaving advances in public health without better evidence from less biased sources is simply a good way to bring back those scourges of previous generations.




abytchgoddess4u -> RE: .mmr 'scare' doctor to face charges. (7/21/2007 1:56:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No but I have yet to see any evidence presented showing any actual mercury poisoning caused by vaccinations. The quantity of mercury is tiny even when compare to the EPA's safe level. Anyway quacks have been selling mercury chelation as a treatment for autism for the better part of a decade with no evidence of any successful outcomes.

Also it needs to be stressed that heavy metal poisoning has pretty clear and well understood effects on neuro development. We simply don't see those signs in the autistic.

I fully understand that parents faced with an autism diagnosis want to know why but blaming one of the great lifesaving advances in public health without better evidence from less biased sources is simply a good way to bring back those scourges of previous generations.


I'm not promoting non-vaccination. Single dose vials do not need the same type or level of preservatives.

I'm simply saying that reducing heavy metal levels in all children will probably aid in a lot of illnesses/conditions...including autism. This can be done by cleaning our oceans and waterways, reducing fossil fuel consumption/emissions, outlawing many chemicals and products made with them, taking Thimerisol out of vaccines, chelation, etc.

Thirty years ago with thought lead paint and asbestos were A-ok, but were they? No...which is why they were both outlawed in '78. I propose that 20-30yrs from now we will be saying, "Remember when mercury was in EVERYTHING? Damn, were we stupid."

And, the EPA's safe level of mercury exposure in children is 0.1mcg per Kilo, per day. One milligram equals 1000 micrograms.


From Boyd Haley, Professor and Chair of the University of Kentucky Department of Chemistry:
"The EPA safe level for mercury exposure from the diet is 0.1 micrograms/2.2 pounds body weight and the vaccines preserved with thimerosal has 12.5 micrograms of mercury or 125 times the EPA safe level. This makes the vaccine exposure safe if your baby weighs 275 pounds."

Not 'tiny' at all. Btw, Thimerisol is approximately 50% mercury by weight.

As for trait comparison between autistm and mercury poisoning...you can read all about it here: http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercury.htm

If you don't want to read the whole thing...just look at Table 2.

As I stated before, the NIH is doing a study on chelation and autistic children. Anecdotal evidence is mostly positive.

Randomised Control Trials, the gold standard of scientific testing,  are unethical on children and pregnant women and are almost never done.




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