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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

I admit I don't understand this idea that growth can only come in an M/s dynamic from things a person dislikes or finds bad or makes then unhappy.

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
We are not talking about "any" service he could possibly or may ever demand, we are talking about things he has asked of her either in past or presently happening that she does not feel are a sacrifice or a trial for her.

OK so your owner has you do thing that make you suffer, they effect -your- mindset and growth as a slave, but they are not a requirement for slavery  or growth in an M/s dyanmic which is what you said earlier prop.

requirement for slavery? no. requirement for growth? imo, yes. however this is all my lil old opinion, based on my own perceptions and understanding of ownership and slavery. with those who have a different understanding of the concepts, the same truth would not apply. and actually, for the sake of curiousity and learning about ways which differ from my own, i'd be curious to know just what sorts of things help foster growth and symbolize ownership in dynamics where there are never any trials for a slave to overcome.

I just gave you some, she learns to cook gourmet meals, she becomes knowledgeable about wine to share his passion for same, she goes back to school earns her Master's or Doctorial degree in a field she always wanted to get into but didn't think she was good enough too be in, she learns investing when she never thought she could and makes a fortune, she learns to sew whole outfits when she couldn't sew a button when she came into the dynamic. She starts an ebay business from the ground up and in several months becomes a gold powerseller and brings him over $5k in profit a month when a year before she didn't know how to turn on the computer. She learns to paint, writes and publishes her first novel or a novel for him...all of these things being possible because of the dynamic and the environment he provides..strengthening her bond with him.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

first i see two separate issues in the things you mention above: things revolving around self-improvement, like achieving something one has always desired but never felt capable of...and things involving service to one's Master, like learning to share his passions or earning money for him. imo self-improvement, while nice and appropriate for some, does not result in one's growth as a slave. there is a difference between growing as an independent, free person, and growing as a slave. the latter category...service...imo only involves growth as a slave if one faces challenges and hardships along the way. this in no way means that acquiring certain skills in order to better serve and please one's Master is without value or purpose if it comes easily and without suffering or sacrifice. just that i am not sure where the "growth" (again, as a slave, not a person) is in such situations.

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ORIGINAL: bandit25

I'm pretty much with Chewsie.

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I have a problem with the whole "suffering" thing also.

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However, doing something well, even if there is no adversity or challenge, can also bring a great sense of accomplishment.

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie


What if the only thing that would be a "hardship" to the girl would be to be homeless, destitute, and starving? Everything else kind of pales in the face of that. Should he boot her ass out to, lose use of her, lose her income potential, to make her grow as a slave in the way -most- satsifying to her or should he as the owner tell her to get over it?

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

BeingChewsie, i'll give you an example. i could take a comprehensive course, and within several months become fluent in cantonese. this would be a challenge, an admirable accomplishment, and may help me to grow as a person. it would make me desireable in the eyes of certain employers, therefore increasing my earning potential. however becoming fluent in cantonese would not help me to grow as a slave, because it would not serve my Master in any way. He does not wish me to be employed by anyone other than himself, therefore the earning potential aspect would be irrelevant. He would not find any more value in me as his slave. learning cantonese may have been something i have always longed to do, but it would be a selfish goal, not one that served my Master.

likewise...i have always had a fear of driving. if i overcame this fear and learned how to drive, one could say i will have grown as a person. however my Master has no desire for me to serve him by driving and running errands...to him it is more desireable that i lack this skill and maintain this fear, because it serves him by adding to my vulnerability and powerlessness in our relationship.

this is what i mean by growing as an individual as opposed to growing as a slave. simply because one is a slave, does not mean that all growth they achieve relates to their slavery.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie


What if the only thing that would be a "hardship" to the girl would be to be homeless, destitute, and starving? Everything else kind of pales in the face of that. Should he boot her ass out to, lose use of her, lose her income potential, to make her grow as a slave in the way -most- satsifying to her or should he as the owner tell her to get over it?

i commented on this earlier but you didn't respond. never did i say anything about a Master serving the slave by contriving hardships simply for her personal benefit, or doing anything contrary to his own will under any circumstances. in fact i agreed with your point that doing such would be silly. my Master does not create circumstances solely to make me suffer, nor is he serving me in any way when he does make me suffer. He simply does what he wills, and in the natural course of that, suffering is an inevitability. if everything were easy for me he would be very disappointed and likely feel that he was lacking in some way as a Master, and that likewise i was lacking as a slave. but there is no need for him to artificially induce hardships...they are simply a part of life.

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He simply does what he wills, and in the natural course of that, suffering is an inevitability. if everything were easy for me he would be very disappointed and likely feel that he was lacking in some way as a Master, and that likewise i was lacking as a slave. but there is no need for him to artificially induce hardships...they are simply a part of life.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

a reply to know one in particular.....

A person plants a tree. 

It's a fine tree. 
It grows delicious fruit from this tree.
It shades one from the hot Sun and even the rain.

Is this a strong tree?  It is definitly a valued tree for what it provides.

But is it a strong tree?

A strong wind blows...

do some branches break?
do some leaves blow away?

or does the tree truck snap and fall to the ground.

It can be a rich tree but still be weak to the wind.

It could be a poor tree but still strong to the wind.

or maybe it both rich in what it gives an strong in what it can withstand.

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ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

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He simply does what he wills, and in the natural course of that, suffering is an inevitability. if everything were easy for me he would be very disappointed and likely feel that he was lacking in some way as a Master, and that likewise i was lacking as a slave. but there is no need for him to artificially induce hardships...they are simply a part of life.

Having read this thread on and off all day, i think this quote is at the heart of the matter being discussed, the concept that suffering is an inevitably and if you were not suffering that he would feel he was lacking as a Master, that he would somehow be "less" of a Master is he didn't make you suffer and that you would be less of a slave for not suffering. i don't know if there is a concept that i could disagree with more strongly. While that may be true in your dynamic there are a myriad of Masters and slaves alike who do not judge their worth as a Master or a slave by the suffering they cause nor the suffering they are forced to endure.

There are also a myriad of responses that i would like to make to that particular way of perceiving Master/slave relationships, none of which do i think would be beneficial or well received, so i will leave it alone.

heartfelt

*edited because i can't type well tonight

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

KOM,

I'm not suggesting that the owner doesn't do what he will and that the wind doesn't blow and knock off branches etc, I'm not saying sometimes that tree doesn't feel like its going to snap...but if the tree had formerly been in a place that was bone dry and got very little sun, and it was pest infested  and dying ...and now lived in this place with food, water, was well-cared for..I doubt it would see the occasional storm as any type of hardship.

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ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

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He simply does what he wills, and in the natural course of that, suffering is an inevitability. if everything were easy for me he would be very disappointed and likely feel that he was lacking in some way as a Master, and that likewise i was lacking as a slave. but there is no need for him to artificially induce hardships...they are simply a part of life.

Having read this thread on and off all day, i think this quote is at the heart of the matter being discussed, the concept that suffering is an inevitably and if you were not suffering that he would feel he was lacking as a Master, that he would somehow be "less" of a Master is he didn't make you suffer and that you would be less of a slave for not suffering. i don't know if there is a concept that i could disagree with more strongly. While that may be true in your dynamic there are a myriad of Masters and slaves alike who do not judge their worth as a Master or a slave by the suffering they cause nor the suffering they are forced to endure.

There are also a myriad of responses that i would like to make to that particular way of perceiving Master/slave relationships, none of which do i think would be beneficial or well received, so i will leave it alone.

heartfelt

*edited because i can't type well tonight