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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/18/2007 10:46:20 PM   
Termyn8or


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First of all, it's a rant if it is percieved as a rant. Second of all you know shit.

I hear a noise downstairs, I grab my Ruger. Very nice piece, floating firing pin, and the recoils is very well balanced. Very easy to shoot. I find an idiot cleaning out my CD case, and I summarily blow his head off. Turns out he is a big MF and it is probably a good thing I did that or I might be eating my beautiful Ruger.

I sit down, a few seconds later I think "SHIT, the drop piece" and with that I go upstairs and get this Raven 22 which isn't even loaded and I give it, gratis, to the dead body.

I sit there in the corner for three hours waiting for the cops, but they never come. So I get my razor knife out and cut the carpet from the floor and roll the perp up in it. We take a little ride down to the lake with a couple of cinderblocks and some rope.

Case closed, errr, never opened.

You are ABSOLUTELY right though, when a cop gets killed it is BIG BIG news, wonder why ? Because it hardly ever happens.

Now someone will no doubt walk in here and flame 'My brother was killed by a thug bla bla bla" OK, And he was on a force of how many ? How many of them died that day ?

And Real, now it gets NASTY. You started it, but here it goes.

How many times did you hear of ONE cop beating up a suspect who was NOT handcuffed. Seems to me every time you hear about it it is six cops kicking the shit out of somebody who is already handcuffed. Explain that.

Actually I got my "ass kicked"  by the cops in my younger days, after fleeing and eluding, which was dropped later. Laying on the floor I begged for mercy, but afterwards I laughed, they didn't hurt me a bit. My little sister could've hurt me worse, and has.

They didn't even put a bruise on me. Pitiful. This is what is supposed to protect us ? You get one bad MF and they are done. I know a guy did about fifteen years for going off, stealing a bank card, then taking a cop's gun and beating the shit out of him, I KNOW THIS GUY. And incedentally he is about five foot six, and wasn't all that built muscle-wise until he got out of prison. Now he wants to be a tatoo artist.

Tough little fuck though. I used to beat him up when he was like six and I was twelve. I also wrestled his cousin who almost became wrestling champ of the state of Ohio except for that hernia. This was years ago, you should've seen his truss. I also beat the champ of N. Ridgeville who was my size and weight.

People see authority in strength, and as such therefore see strength in authority, this is not always true.

Cops, they just don't scare me anymore, in fact my last runin with them I talked my way out of a DUI, DUS, no insurance, no seatbelt and open beer. They didn't even take my beer. Drove home with most of the case intact. They made me pour out the one I was drinking, that was it.

The psychological reasoning used to achieve this is not easy, most can't handle it. You adopt an attitude, and purvey this attitude to them. The MOST important thing to control is fear. They can smell it like dogs I guess. They saw my rolling papers and I told them, "yes, I smoke it once in a while, but I don't have any right now". Folks, THEY DIDN'T EVEN SEARCH MY CAR.

They are regular people like you and I, and they fear the same things, there is alot in common. Anyone who has been young knows fear, they conquer their fear with guns and training. Some of us conquer our fears with guns and training as well. When they come upon us, things are a bit different.

Yes, very different.

T

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/18/2007 11:30:05 PM   
luckydog1


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Sure real, I already did.  Cops do not pretend their Job is to prevent crime, they are Constittuionally prevented from doing so.

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/18/2007 11:47:45 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

safety slugs?  are those the kind that are absolutely "gauranteed" not to misfire?




        I wish.  I'm also a fan of revolvers.

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/18/2007 11:53:46 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

safety slugs?  are those the kind that are absolutely "gauranteed" not to misfire?




       I wish.  I'm also a fan of revolvers.


i like the semis but i hear you.  mine had a stove piping problem when i first bought it.  The ejector pin is at an angle that did not eject the hot loads outward they just spun above the chamber.  Put in an additional spring to fix it.

Unc has a 454 casul revolver now that i would trade up for in a new york second.  doing 280gr at a snag under 2000 with barrel vents, like major sweet.  and clint thought he had the most powerful handgun in the world LOL


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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 12:00:00 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Sure real, I already did.  Cops do not pretend their Job is to prevent crime, they are Constittuionally prevented from doing so.


you arent trying to tell me i said that cops pretend their job is to prevent crime are you?  Is that like some kind of assertion you are making now that i am supposed to dispute with you or what?  if i was supposed to have said that quote it.


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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 1:39:54 AM   
FullfigRIMaam


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No arguments on this from me, having seen what I have, but don't have cataloged scientific evidence to prove to the masses.
Anyway, I read "The secret", and decided that all my encounters (direct or indirect) with law enforcement from here forward will be positive...  Sho nuff I like their uniforms and handcuffs, lol.   Yeah, I might be bullshitting myself, but it's my prerogative.    M

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 1:43:22 AM   
Termyn8or


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"Sure real, I already did.  Cops do not pretend their Job is to prevent crime, they are Constittuionally prevented from doing so. "

That is a big problem. Wouldn't you love it if someone who was about to rob you or rape you or something was thrown in jail the day before ? Not happening.

In towns of old, a sherriff or marshall in sight was a strong deterrent to crime, but mainly because they would get caught. That is in no way unconstitutional. Unconstitutional is when they bust someone for a bunch of firearms, no large ordinance, but a shitload of handguns and rifles. They make a big thing out of it, even though the owner has never shot anyone, or at anyone, or at anything unless outside city limits or at a shooting range, which he frequented.

Not one of those guns were used improperly, the dude was never convicted of a crime of violence, but they took all the guns. And even though they let his ass out, they laid a felony conviction on him so he can no longer collect guns.

I am talking a routine traffic stop, I don't think he was even speeding. What made them search the car, who knows ?

But the dude never hurt anyone, and now has a record. That is fucked up.

To protect and serve, the government.

Refute that.

T

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 6:34:58 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

safety slugs?  are those the kind that are absolutely "gauranteed" not to misfire?

No, they have nothing to do with that.  I find it hard to believe that a self professed "shooter" who goes on at length about their knowledge of and skill with firearms doesn't know what safety slugs are.  Armin Glaser would be very unhappy to hear that.  Try googling the term 'frangible ammunition' for more information on the subject.

~stef

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 6:39:03 AM   
Alumbrado


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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 6:55:27 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

safety slugs?  are those the kind that are absolutely "gauranteed" not to misfire?

No, they have nothing to do with that.  I find it hard to believe that a self professed "shooter" who goes on at length about their knowledge of and skill with firearms doesn't know what safety slugs are.  Armin Glaser would be very unhappy to hear that.  Try googling the term 'frangible ammunition' for more information on the subject.

~stef


ugh stef, that was a joke...  you know JOKE?  People put up "jokes" when they are trying to be funny or sarcastic and for lots of other reasons.  you just didnt get it! 

Hey but thanks for the effort.  That was very sweet of you.

i have to goog armchair now.  (get it?)


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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 7:11:09 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ugh stef, that was a joke...  you know JOKE?  People put up "jokes" when they are trying to be funny or sarcastic and for lots of other reasons.  you just didnt get it! 

Yes, of course.  That one is right up there with "I have dozens of emails from people who support my position" on the list of tactics employed by internet wackjobs when they are shown to be wrong on a particular subject.

The sad thing is that it truly was a joke, but like most of your posts, it was unintentionally humorous.  In the future, should people just assume that you're "joking" all the times you're just plain wrong?

~stef

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 7:18:01 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ugh stef, that was a joke...  you know JOKE?  People put up "jokes" when they are trying to be funny or sarcastic and for lots of other reasons.  you just didnt get it! 

Yes, of course.  That one is right up there with "I have dozens of emails from people who support my position" on the list of tactics employed by internet wackjobs when they are shown to be wrong on a particular subject.

The sad thing is that it truly was a joke, but like most of your posts, it was unintentionally humorous.  In the future, should people just assume that you're "joking" all the times you're just plain wrong?

~stef


The real joke is when you admitted to being a "spectator" and then step up on your soap box as an expert.  At least i took it for a joke, at least until i realized you were actually serious.

Now i thought that was hilarious in a very sad sort of way.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 8:24:13 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

The real joke is when you admitted to being a "spectator" and then step up on your soap box as an expert.

Interesting.  I must have missed where I admitted to any such thing.  I realize that providing proof for your delusions isn't something that you usually do, but feel free to show me where I did.

~stef

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 8:46:23 AM   
ModeratorEleven


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Ok kids, settle down.

XI



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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 10:21:10 AM   
GhitaAmati


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As the wife of a law enforcement officer (please do not read police, sherriff, or civilian anything) I thought Id throw my two cents in.

The running joke in our house is, if someone were to be dumb enough to break into our house, the question is not who to call...nor is it even a question of whether or not we will shoot them...the decision to be made is...WHAT do I shoot them with??

I happen to live in the state of florida where it is now leagal to shoot anyone as long as you feel threatened for your life, so I wouldnt even have to place a gun in their hands. I am friends with alot of the local law enforcement...except we have to deal with game wardens and fish and wildlife people more than sherriffs (no police here). We ask them questions about what to do in X situation all the time. They pretty much all answer that its better to just deal with the situation ourselves anyway. Do I think a police officers job is safe? Not really, but then most jobs arent safe anymore. Street cops have to deal with idiots running them over while they are handing out tickets, and city cops get shot at (notice I said shot at, not shot) all the time. Yea, the deaths aren't the norm, but I dont think it makes it any less safe. As a cop you have to know that at anytime you might have to answer to that call where you have to risk your life. Not many instrument repair people I know have to deal with that everyday. Any job where you spend the majority of your time on the road is more dangerous than a job behind a desk. Any job where you have to deal with joe-bob public is more dangerous than one where you stick to yourself . Do cops have that "im here to protect and serve" attitude? I dunno, never taken a poll. I will agree that while many sign up because they think they can "help", there are alot who sign up for the power trip.

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 11:15:55 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

safety slugs?  are those the kind that are absolutely "gauranteed" not to misfire?




      I wish.  I'm also a fan of revolvers.


i like the semis but i hear you.  mine had a stove piping problem when i first bought it.  The ejector pin is at an angle that did not eject the hot loads outward they just spun above the chamber.  Put in an additional spring to fix it.

Unc has a 454 casul revolver now that i would trade up for in a new york second.  doing 280gr at a snag under 2000 with barrel vents, like major sweet.  and clint thought he had the most powerful handgun in the world LOL



Realone, a .454 Casul is a hunting handgun.
The problem with it is that the bullet would go through two of your neighbors houses before stopping!
I keep a Glock Mod 21(.45 cal.) with *frangable* bullets that break up in the intruder's body and don't penetrate walls for home use. I'd rather be shot by a regular bullet than one of those frangable bullets! ("Frangere"- latin for "to break.")
That's the same bullet that Air Marshalls use on planes.
For carrying purposes out in public I have a Glock Mod 27 (.40 Cal.) with hollow points, very concealable and very powerful.
I can easily carry it on my hip or in a fanny pack.
You can't go shooting intruders in your house and killing the neighbors at the same time!
I also have a 12 Ga Mossberg with "birdshot" in it next to my bed.
It won't penetrate walls but it will kill an intruder 10 feet away.
I own 2 .44 Magnums (Ruger Redhawk, S&W Mod 29) and 1 .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 686) but they're not really suitable for defense weapons, again, too much penetration and they're very big handguns and hard to carry or conceal.
That old saw, "the right tool for the job" certainly applies to firearms.


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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 11:25:11 AM   
GhitaAmati


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I keep a shotgun handy for in home protection, I carry a taurus P145, not much a 45 wont stop, and I did alot of searching to find something that fits my hand real well, most of my husbands handgus I cant get my finger on the trigger very well cause my hands are so small. I havent used the air marshall bullets but Sir has some. I hunt with a .306 bolt action rifle...

Of course, we also have a 30 cal machine gun in the closet....

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 11:57:50 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

I keep a shotgun handy for in home protection, I carry a taurus P145, not much a 45 wont stop, and I did alot of searching to find something that fits my hand real well, most of my husbands handgus I cant get my finger on the trigger very well cause my hands are so small. I havent used the air marshall bullets but Sir has some. I hunt with a .306 bolt action rifle...

Of course, we also have a 30 cal machine gun in the closet....


Ghita, Smith and Wesson has a whole line of handguns made especially for the fairer sex's hands, the "Lady Smith Line."
I bought one for a lady friend of mine as a home warming present in .38 cal.

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 12:46:14 PM   
Pulpsmack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
so here are a few myths:
1) “WE SERVE AND PROTECT”


Agreed. Some police go over and above the call of duty to be helpful, but there are those who do not. One thing that had always pissed me off is police that do not bother to lift a finger to help a stranded motorist who is NOT causing a public safety hazard. The Supreme Court declared the police have NO duty to the individual, just the "public at large". As such, they have no obligation to serve and protect YOU.


quote:

2) “WE ARE A DETERENT TO CRIME”


This is the biggest myth of all time and one that makes me rabid when I listen to the gun grabbing idiots, who say it's for the police to handle. I was a big fan of Dragnet reruns when I was a kid, and one statistic stuck with me to this day. Joe Friday was addressing a public panel about how police were overworked, stating that for every Active Duty police officer in the Greater Los Angeles area, there are 8,000 citizens who depend upon him. This was from 1969. Does anybody want to wager how the numbers play out 30-some years later? Police will take down your stolen property information, and they might offer a helpful report to get your restraining order against that significant other. Make no mistake, however... when it's wood, plaster, and glass (or less) between your attacker/killer/rapist it all comes down to you and your preparation or ability to handle the situation. If you lack such preparation or ability, you will be beaten, killed, and/or raped. Don't ever forget that



quote:

3. “OUR JOB IS DANGEROUS, WE LAY OUR LIVES ON THE LINE EVERYDAY” This one goes beyond myth, this is a flat out lie.


I am not so sure I agree with this "myth", however. Discounting the brass and dispatchers, the beat cops spend the entire shift in a motor vehicle, which alone puts their risk to personal injury way up there. They are required to go into harms way when called (even if by overwhelming numbers). Moreover, they lack the ability to excercise (like their foot patrol predecessors did) they eat like shit, and they are exposed to more stress than most people, responding to calls that show the worst side to humanity... even if the danger has long since faded from the scene. I believe all these factors contribute to a rather hazardous career.

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RE: 3 Myths Of Law Enforcement - 7/19/2007 1:08:46 PM   
Pulpsmack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Realone, a .454 Casul is a hunting handgun.
The problem with it is that the bullet would go through two of your neighbors houses before stopping!
I keep a Glock Mod 21(.45 cal.) with *frangable* bullets that break up in the intruder's body and don't penetrate walls for home use. I'd rather be shot by a regular bullet than one of those frangable bullets! ("Frangere"- latin for "to break.")
That's the same bullet that Air Marshalls use on planes.
For carrying purposes out in public I have a Glock Mod 27 (.40 Cal.) with hollow points, very concealable and very powerful.
I can easily carry it on my hip or in a fanny pack.
You can't go shooting intruders in your house and killing the neighbors at the same time!
I also have a 12 Ga Mossberg with "birdshot" in it next to my bed.
It won't penetrate walls but it will kill an intruder 10 feet away.
I own 2 .44 Magnums (Ruger Redhawk, S&W Mod 29) and 1 .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 686) but they're not really suitable for defense weapons, again, too much penetration and they're very big handguns and hard to carry or conceal.
That old saw, "the right tool for the job" certainly applies to firearms.




I think everything written is either accurate or good practice except for the loads highlighted in red. I thought I sent you a link about 6 months ago regarding "frangible" ammunition. DO NOT USE THAT CRAP. Frangible ammo sacrifices performance for safety regarding innocents behind the walls. At least that safety is what they advertise. Frangible ammo does offer the drawbacks of poor performance (when considering the lack of penetration in tissue vs FMJ or JHP ammunition) but it does NOT come with the packaged benefit of staying contained within the walls. This stuff will go through six pieces of drywall easy, which is more than 3 rooms. So in effect, you are compromising the safety of those you are shooting at (because it will still penetrate) as well as your own (because that overpriced, underperforming crap might get you killed).

Birdshot is also a huge mistake. I would hate like hell to be caught in a spray at 4', but birdshot is NOT designed to have any effectiveness against bipeds and it might get you killed as well for the same reason of penetration. Both frangible ammo and birdshot can make a nasty superficial wound but the chances of hitting the vitals with it is marginal at best, and that is your best chance at "stopping" the threat. Stick with 00 buck and JHP ammunition. If you live in a home with family or roommates, you should drill diligently to ensure that people will be in the most covered areas should bullets start flying (and you will know where they are). If you have neighbors in an apartment, learn their layout.

Also, a Smith 686 is an ideal home defense weapon (after a more powerful longarm). You are correct that that L-frame design is not an ideal concealed carry piece (seeing how it used to be the issued sidearm of law enforcement from the early 1980s to the mid 1990s, ), but the weapon delivers excellent performance against bipeds. 158 grain .357 JHP will not run much risk of overpenetration and if you are still not comfortable with that, loading the 686 with .38 +P will not only nullify that, but the gun will feel like a creampuff when you shoot it. This is a highly recommended weapon for women and first time shooters for range and home defense use. That large frame will make .357 manageable and 38+P feel like roll caps. Those 2" snubs are excellent for carry, but they are not something I would want to shoot many rounds through in a firefight. My charge got the 640 with the Crimson Trace laser grips, and .38 feels like .357 fired through a 686. The .38 +P rounds feel like shooting .45 JHP through my compact 1911, and .357 feels like someone taking a rebar and smacking you squarely in the palm of your hand with it.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 7/19/2007 2:07:23 PM >

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