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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 5:51:33 AM

losttreasure

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I second SimplyMichael's response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7
... To paraphrase Warf from star Trek(if anyone knows the exact quote let me know I can't remember if this is it or not for sure lol) "Trust is something that must be earned, not given away" ...

"Respect is earned, not bestowed", and it was said by Troi, not Worf.

lol... Now why do I think it's sad that I actually know that?

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 6:23:03 AM

GhitaAmati

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

People often confuse respect for courtesy. I look people in the eye because I am civilized, I address dominants rather than their submissives again because of courtesy. Same goes for things like holding doors, even asking if someone wants a drink while I am up.

Respect is earned. To me respect is standing up to offer someone a seat for reasons other than ones bound by courtesy. Calling someone sir or even in rare cases master is a sign of respect and is again earned.

Ways one earns respect is by having your deeds match your actions, by being humble, offering courtesy, and by treating others well and with respect.

I agree with everything else you say here Michael, except the highlighted line. Sir is not an earned title. Ok, maybe the BDSM community in general has caused it to be used that way, but its not. Sir is just the polite form of address for adult males. (It might be fun to note that the polite form of address for minor males is "Master").

As to Draco's followup question to me, no being polite is not another form of respect. By being polite we are proving that we ourselves are respectable, so in that sense, maybe you could see it as just another level of respect, but I strongly believe the two are not the same thing. I can be polite (and probably would be) to someone I have no respect for at all. Just because someone is a blathering idiot doesnt make them any less human and therefore less deserving of common courtesy. If I was to stop being polite to everyone "I" judged to by unworthy, I am becoming just as dis-respectable as they are.

More and more often common courtesy has fallen by the way-side, manners are just not taught anymore. Half the time when I tell the girl at the drivethru window "Thank you" for my meal, she gets this surprised look on her face.

ghita~

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 6:50:26 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

People often confuse respect for courtesy. I look people in the eye because I am civilized, I address dominants rather than their submissives again because of courtesy. Same goes for things like holding doors, even asking if someone wants a drink while I am up.

Respect is earned. To me respect is standing up to offer someone a seat for reasons other than ones bound by courtesy. Calling someone sir or even in rare cases master is a sign of respect and is again earned.

Ways one earns respect is by having your deeds match your actions, by being humble, offering courtesy, and by treating others well and with respect.

Exactly how I feel but said wayyyyyyyyy better than I was going to.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 8:35:11 AM

littleone35

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I only rememberWorf saying"Today is a good day to die".

To answer the question though, i give every person a certain amount of respect. The way they conduct themselves says if they get more or less. Someone respecting me gives them more respect if i already have some for them. I think something that shows respect is respecting a person priviate life unless they want to share it and espicially a person personal space. There are more but those are the first 2 that came to mind. For me respect is being treated like a lady. I am a sub yes but i am also a lady and i expect to be treated as one.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 8:50:33 AM

adoracat

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~fast reply~

courtesy, to me, is a given, till its shown clearly that the other person doesnt deserve it. calling someone Sir or Ma'am because that's what they wish to be called? i dont have a personal issue with that.

asking me to call you Master/Mistress when you dont own me? i would probably balk. not from disrespect, but because that DOES disrespect Sir, who does own me.

kitten, who is glad to be Owned by Sir

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 9:11:06 AM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

Here. Let me make the thread go sideways for a while.

Dom(me)s need to earn their respect.

Subs/slaves should be respected by default.

Jeff

If I want someone to treat me in a respectable manner, it's up to me to treat them in a respectable manner. And for my money, I do not need to wait to see what they will do before choosing what I will do. Each of our actions stands alone. The other person (dominant or submissive) makes his or her own mind up about me regardless of what I do, and I do the same for them.

For the people that want to argue that, I'd give this example: If someone really liked you and treated you like a king or princess, but you didn't like them, would it matter that much how they treated you? Would their treatment of you change how you feel about them? I'd say that it wouldn't. So... each person's decisions about someone else stands alone. MY responsibility is to determine how I want to conduct my own life and then act accordingly.

And on top of that, I choose how I will be treated. If someone chooses to treat me in a manner that is not respectable, I can choose to walk away from that person.

It's not rocket science.

juliet

edited to add that I don't believe submissives deserve anything by default any more than I believe dominants deserve things by default. I DO believe in manners, courtesy and a simple respect for other human beings - and if that's not enough for either submissives or dominants, then that's not my problem.

My behavior is not contingent on how other people act but is entirely within my control - even if I am controlled by someone else.

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 7/20/2007 9:17:55 AM >

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 11:25:01 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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being very honest and blunt about myself - i have major trust issues ...i don't consider you a friend or acquaintance off the bat ...you have to sort of "grow" on me. yes, you'll receive my mutual respect however don't expect me to call you "sir", "master" or etc in replies to your messages. that is reserved for Daddy who solely has my utmost respect because i don't expect anyone (no matter your title) to treat me like your owned submissive/slave. i'm merely a person to you ...nothing more or less.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 2:31:35 PM

SirDraco7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

I second SimplyMichael's response.

"Respect is earned, not bestowed", and it was said by Troi, not Worf.

lol... Now why do I think it's sad that I actually know that?

Thanks you. But I do believe that we are thinking about different episodes then.
Picard was inviting new creatures on board and Warf was weary about them being peaceful and that is when/why he said it. I remember warf saying such clearly, but I don't remember the episode and I can't remember the exact words which is why I say paraphrase.
BTW Warf was right because thease creatures tried taking over the enterprise I believe.(then again wasn't most of their episodes like that? lol j/k)

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 2:34:26 PM

SirDraco7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

As to Draco's followup question to me, no being polite is not another form of respect. By being polite we are proving that we ourselves are respectable, so in that sense, maybe you could see it as just another level of respect, but I strongly believe the two are not the same thing. I can be polite (and probably would be) to someone I have no respect for at all. Just because someone is a blathering idiot doesnt make them any less human and therefore less deserving of common courtesy. If I was to stop being polite to everyone "I" judged to by unworthy, I am becoming just as dis-respectable as they are.
More and more often common courtesy has fallen by the way-side, manners are just not taught anymore. Half the time when I tell the girl at the drivethru window "Thank you" for my meal, she gets this surprised look on her face.

ghita~

Well spoken. I very much agree with your points. Thank you for sharing them. :)

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 3:27:59 PM

needsherdaddy

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For me, i am polite to everyone. Respect is earned. For me, it's learned through a person's actions, more than their words. i find that people these days put up a nice front, and then they tend to kick people behind their back. So, i watch everything that's done. Respect for me is earned through a person being dependable, trustworthy, and polite to/with others. That's basic respect.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 3:39:07 PM

nephandi

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Hi Sir

When i meet a person, i try not to assume to much about them, though i am a bit to trusting at times. However i think everyone deserves basic respect, Dominant, submissive, the anoying neibour whit his undulat that sing all night, everyone deserve to be treated politely and whit general curtisy in my opinion. No matter what lifestyle they live by, or the role they ahve in that lifestyle.

i am also requred to be extra respectful to all Dominants a Master belive slavery is a status, not just in our relationship, but outside of it as well. i am required to do my best to be peasing to all Free. i will hoever not obey and serve anyone that call themself a Dom, but i am reqired to show respect.

As to how pepole gain respect in my eyes, well pepole that show themself polite, inteligent and good listeners i respect, pepole that are good at their trade and knowedgable i no matter what field of intrest they have. Pepole that help others and are kind to animals and that are Spiritual often also gain my respect. Also if Master tell me to respect somone i will.

Pepole that can not listen, that are fanatics and do not let pepole belive what they will. Pepole that harm the weak and harm animals and that can not respect the religions of others and that are generaly anoying an not polite loose my respect.

i hope i have given a good enough aswer. Just ask if you need me to clarify something.

i wih you well

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 3:59:04 PM

Arastella

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I believe that respect, as well as everything else, is something to be earned.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 4:03:51 PM

GhitaAmati

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Draco, I wanted to add something to my earlier comments....While I do strongly believe in the difference between courtesy and respect...I also think that respect is more removed than given...I always assume someone I meet is respectable, and that doesnt change until they prove me wrong. Now, my respect for that person might grow by their actions.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 4:59:33 PM

FromLustToDust

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My basis of respect is usually on a first time impression, though more respect can be earned, or lost, in future encounters. I once met a Domme who slapped me, full face slap, when I first met her because I was "bold" enough to speak to her without being spoken to first. I chose to never speak to her again. Even in "real" life, respect is something that has to be a two-way street. If I am rude to someone when I first meet them, no matter my reason for being rude, I do not deserve their instant respect. Though in some instances my entire respect I might have had for someone can be wiped away by just a small thing, and they cannot earn it back no matter what they are like in the future. My best friend's boyfriend got drunk one night and started choking my best friend. I was the one who had to pull him off of her, and no, this wasn't in play, she isn't into BDSM. From then on I am unable to stand being around him without wanting to borrow my ex Master's new needles and stabbing him repeatedly. GRR...

I'm a picky person, though...

Respect is a tricky subject.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 5:31:58 PM

mstrjx

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To nobody in particular.

About my prior remark, about respecting subs/slaves without question, yet not automatically doing so with dominants......

We've all seen it, especially if we've been 'around' for a few years or longer. Some submissive you know meets up with a supposed dominant, and ends up disappointed, in the hospital, or worse. This submissive took the 'word' of the dominant because they are submissive and the dominant doesn't say that he/she is an abuser/rapist/ignoramus. That is not to say that all people claiming to be dominant are miscreants. Some are what they say they are. But in order to make that determination, the dominant needs to show that they are deserving of that respect.

I see submission differently, as a concept. Not speaking of individuals, per se. Submission is ceding a portion of oneself to another, whether out of need to do so or not. In a world where each of us are encouraged to be independent, strong, self-sufficient (traits that 'could' occur in an individual submissive), there are those who would prefer to follow another, going against the grain.

Personally, I find this 'concept' noble, courageous. A person who, from society's standpoint, has no need to give of themself to that degree does so willingly.

That deserves respect.

Now when it boils down to individuals, would it be true that each and every sub/slave fits that ideal? No. Just as has been pointed out, there are s-types who deserve no more respect than their opposite d-type number. But as a 'class' of people, just admitting their intent and gladness to be unequal, deserves a little extra consideration in my book.

No doubt this entry could be picked apart as easy as the last, but I left the last post ambiguous on purpose. This post really gives the nature of my thoughts on the matter.

Jeff

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 8:19:22 PM

salilus

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For me, everyone is respected, by default.

If the respect is lost or broken, then I attempt to give nothing at all - not respect and not disrespect. I have, of course, had moments in which I've been disrespectful. I try to keep them as few and far between as possible however, as I don't much like myself after I've been rude or disrespectful to someone.

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RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 8:44:11 PM

Travelino

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

~~ snipage for more brevity~~

Now the question. What about respect?
Is it instant? Must it be earned as well?

What I'm asking is just respect in general. The basic form of it. Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?
Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?
Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

And as a side opinion type question. What kind of things earn respect in your eyes? What kind of things lose respect?

Just another, hopefully, thought provoking post of mine....

Sir Draco.

Here is how I look at anyone. No matter who I meet, the "respect" scales (in whatever my definition is) are perfectly balanced. How that person behaves, that person's views on (in this case) BDsM related material, knowledge of human nature, and purpose for involving themselves in a kinkier lifestyle, are just some of the "weights" placed on the scale to tip the balance in either direction. The way the scale "tips" will vary, according my own knowledge (at the time) or that persons knowledge (at the time), and is subject to change, as each of us grow and gather knowledge and wisdom. This usually comes with the passage of time.

Knowledge (based on some sort of facts(mutable)) and wisdom (based on personal experience and cheerfully debatable) have a tendency to earn my respect faster. Personal opinion deemed as fact without a hint of intelligence (of any sort) tends to drop a rather large weight on the opposite side of the "respect" scales (virtually impossible to recover from, even with time on that person's side! )

/me throws his 2 coppers in the kitty, and takes a seat.

Travelino.

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RE: Respect? - 7/21/2007 5:58:51 AM

Kellendra

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I generally respect everyone and trust most people until I have been given cause to do otherwise.
I respect myself and try to treat others as I hope to be treated.
However if that trust is broken, and the respect I have given stamped on it is broken and nothing will ever fix it.
Am a bit of a all or nothing type....

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RE: Respect? - 7/21/2007 1:27:38 PM

kossack

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I start out with an 'average' amount of respect for all. I assume you are a decent person and deserving of basic courtesy and an assumption of good will. People then move up or down, depending on their actions, so I have a huge amount of respect for some people and none at all for some other people. Courtesy is sort of the default level, but depending on your actions, I might first let someone know that they aren't deserving of courtesy and then, if I really lost all respect for them, deny courtesy.

As I grow to respect and esteem someone more--I accord more respect. For me, the highest of these is assuming they are probably right and I'm probably wrong if we disagree on an issue (and there's only a few people that I make that assumption with). Before that, there is simply putting someone else's needs before my own (which usually goes with putting their views on par with my own) and then putting their needs on par with mine.

There are also people I have so little respect for, I don't even bother with common courtesy. This is very, very, very rare, and usually involves huge betrayals to people I love. For example, while I will shake 99% of people's hands, if Voldemort walked in the room, I wouldn't bother. (..must ..go ..back ..to ...Harry ..Potter... )

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RE: Respect? - 7/21/2007 7:05:47 PM

trustingsub

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i treat people the way they treat me. if someone is rude to me, i am rude to them. if they are kind and respectful to me, they will also be treated with kindness and respect. i feel that respect is something that has to be shown before it is received.

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