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RE: Respect? - 7/22/2007 4:13:55 AM   
Politesub53


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Speaking as a submissive, when i talk to a Mistress then i have respect for Her position. What She doesnt have, and needs to earn, is my trust. Once i trust Her then my respect grows deeper, if that makes sense.

In real life, even those who say " respect must be earned " are unwittingly respectful of others. If you visit a doctor or lawyer, or a tradesman or mechanic, by default you respect their status. They then have to live up to that respect you have bestowed or lose it. In general i show respect to all and everyone until they prove differently, which with some people is pretty quick.


(in reply to trustingsub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Respect? - 7/22/2007 7:03:40 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

People often confuse respect for courtesy.  I look people in the eye because I am civilized, I address dominants rather than their submissives again because of courtesy.  Same goes for things like holding doors, even asking if someone wants a drink while I am up.

Respect is earned.  To me respect is standing up to offer someone a seat for reasons other than ones bound by courtesy.  Calling someone sir or even in rare cases master is a sign of respect and is again earned

Ways one earns respect is by having your deeds match your actions, by being humble, offering courtesy, and by treating others well and with respect.


I agree with everything else you say here Michael, except the highlighted line. Sir is not an earned title. Ok, maybe the BDSM community in general has caused it to be used that way, but its not. Sir is just the polite form of address for adult males. (It might be fun to note that the polite form of address for minor males is "Master").

As to Draco's followup question to me, no being polite is not another form of respect. By being polite we are proving that we ourselves are respectable, so in that sense, maybe you could see it as just another level of respect, but I strongly believe the two are not the same thing. I can be polite (and probably would be) to someone I have no respect for at all. Just because someone is a blathering idiot doesnt make them any less human and therefore less deserving of common courtesy. If I was to stop being polite to everyone "I" judged to by unworthy, I am becoming just as dis-respectable as they are.

More and more often common courtesy has fallen by the way-side, manners are just not taught anymore. Half the time when I tell the girl at the drivethru window "Thank you" for my meal, she gets this surprised look on her face.

ghita~


A switch I play with is very much like you in this regard. Everyone is "Sir" or "Ma'am" or "Miss" if he senses they might be dismayed that they're a Ma'am-able age as a lot of women are. He's a confident alpha-y professional, and it comes off as simply good manners and charming/endearing rather than toadying. I don't know what freaks people out about titles.

I personally don't use them a lot, as I was raised in NYC, it's just culturally completely outside my planet, but I have no problem with politeness, or even being somewhat generally slightly on the deferential side when I'm being brought into a part of the community I'm new to.

Everyone likes dolphins and they remain fairly dangerous and bad-ass animals, right? :)


(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Respect? - 7/25/2007 7:10:59 AM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

I second SimplyMichael's response.

"Respect is earned, not bestowed", and it was said by Troi, not Worf.

lol... Now why do I think it's sad that I actually know that?



Thanks you.  But I do believe that we are thinking about different episodes then.
Picard was inviting new creatures on board and Warf was weary about them being peaceful and that is when/why he said it.  I remember warf saying such clearly, but I don't remember the episode and I can't remember the exact words which is why I say paraphrase.
BTW Warf was right because thease creatures tried taking over the enterprise I believe.(then again wasn't most of their episodes like that?  lol j/k)



I stand corrected. 

While Troi did say in The Icarus Factor that "Respect is earned, not bestowed", Worf (that is the correct spelling of his name) said in The Wounded, "Trust is earned, not given away."  His comment was in response to Troi's claiming that they needed to trust the Cardassians as they were now allies.

(in reply to SirDraco7)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Respect? - 7/25/2007 8:40:30 AM   
eratosservant


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From: Where the deer and the antelope play
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For me as a sub, you have to earn it.  No one is instantly respected, in my book.  You have to show me that you are a respectable person.

< Message edited by eratosservant -- 7/25/2007 8:41:37 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Respect? - 7/25/2007 10:14:02 AM   
Dreamz423


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Joined: 7/13/2005
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I generally don’t post much, but it seems fate had led me to this thread today and I’ll add my (albeit lengthy) saga here for it does pertain to respect in a number of ways - perhaps putting words in a tangible format might also help clear my head from the torment and confusion I feel inside.  While, by definition I should be strong, I find myself feeling hurt and weak - if that comes off as emasculating, so be it. I hurt and  quite frankly, to say otherwise would be a fallacy.

So the source of all this? -  In a moment, but it would be fair to say it started before all “this” I…in my past I  was far more self-centered and less caring than one should ever be, I  had "transgressions " - I  abused a trust and was guilty of fucking with a persons head who was kind and respectful towards me. Nothing pretty and certainly nothing to be proud of, but it was the truth of me at that time. But dammit, I did learn and I did punish myself over this - not in a scene of a "scene" or some semi-private martyring of myself  to  show a  kinder self -  Far worse, I spent a long time not liking, hell often despising myself for what I had become. Deep and hurtful it took me a long and painful journey to come to a point where I could trust myself with clarity. Not an easy feat, I assure you.

Ok, so there I was at that point of trusting myself - not really looking for anything, enjoying some inner peace and tranquility. Content and oblivious to the karma storm coming my way.

I met a wonderful person - kind, smart, playful, alive, articulate, beautiful in every sense - the meeting was nothing more than what I’d call a happy accident. In a very short time, (especially in my rather cautious state) I came to realize that I was very much attracted to her, and told her in no uncertain terms that this was the case.

Fiercely independent and bold she had no issues discussing this - (hardly sounds “subbie” but yes, she truly is) She had assembled a labyrinth of protection around her to protect her rather fragile inner-self - and we both understood that and accepted the fact that there would be no compromise of our respective needs and wants - she even went as far as to tell me that she may be prone to manipulative behavior in an early stage of courtship. I understood and accepted that as well.

We eventually met R/T, - comfortable and natural, just getting to know each other - nothing sexual, just simply getting to know one another, a playful and seductive dance. We became closer, and things were good and getting better.

Openly, honestly, we shared with each other the things we’ve crossed in our respective paths - the good, the bad, the ugly  - Included in that was her account of her former Dom, whom she loved deeply and in no uncertain terms - that was is up until well into the relationship he confessed to her that he was married.

As she told me the tale of their romance and it’s eventual demise, I truly felt her pain for what she had endured. I never felt a need from either side to attempt to compare our “us” to her former one -  simply it was a thing that was. I appreciated the trust and confidence she had to share with me on that level - she has a strong spirit, and her attitude to me seemed to be both wise and healthy. I never was given reason to feel the least bit threatened by what once was.

Anyway, our dance continued and only got better - the subtle signs of attraction grew, seemingly with each passing minute.

Each time we spoke, met, better than the last - she got the comfort and trust to allow me to her home following a picnic - a lovely, relaxed evening, learning yet more about each other. I had a busy day the following morning, kissed her good night - all good.

The following morning I had a few minutes prior to getting about my business so I took a quick look at her personal page (she’s a rather prolific and talented writer) - The words I read hit me like taking on a speeding freight train… She had a lengthy post regarding how she could not get the former Dom and her love for him erased from her mind and she needed time and space to herself.
The words cut me to the core, I still can’t say if it was the words themselves, or the fact that she chose not to talk with me directly about her feelings. Her words were descriptive of her pain and loss - my emotions swung wildly from pain for her  then to my own pain and to detest for the slime for hurting this wonderful creature to self-pity and everything in between.

It also brought to me the feelings I know I must have inflicted in my not-so proud past. Was this some sort of cruel continuation of a payback?  A test of my own resolve for her affections? A non-confronting way to signal to me she didn’t share the feelings I did? - I didn’t know, still don’t.

I’ve picked up the phone - time and again, but never completed a call, I’ve started to write her at length, but deleted the words rather than hit the send button - after all, she wants to be alone - and as much as it pains - shouldn’t I respect that wish?

It’s been days - I thought, hell prayed the hurt would fade with each new morning - it has not.

The only solstice I’ve found is perhaps that my saga may provide comfort to some who have found themselves hurt, seemingly without reason, that it appears to be true, that old adage wherein “what comes around goes around.”

Had I any inclination the hurt one’s heart can feel, I can assure you that I’d have never, ever done the things I did in my past  - a simple “I’m sorry” surely can in no way heal such wounds - but yet, it is all I can offer. I apparently reaped what I had sewn in the respect department.

May you all find peace love and happiness and that perfect balance of respect - be well.

M








(in reply to eratosservant)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Respect? - 7/25/2007 1:40:16 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

Ok I'm branching off from an earlier post of mine here, because it led me to an interesting question.

Yes Submission is and should be earned.   I agree with that.  I do not think a submissive should submit, listen to nor obey anyone unless and untill they desire to.

Trust as well.  To paraphrase Warf from star Trek(if anyone knows the exact quote let me know I can't remember if this is it or not for sure lol) "Trust is something that must be earned, not given away"  Fair enough.  Well agreed and established.

Now the question.  What about respect?
Is it instant?  Must it be earned as well?

And yes.  I understand and agree that there are levels of respect.  To look someone in the eyes and listen when they speak is one.  To call someone Sir or Ma'am(a friend or stranger not your Master or Mistress.) is a greater for of respect.(in my opinion anyways.)

What I'm asking is just respect in general.  The basic form of it.  Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?
Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?
Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

And as a side opinion type question.  What kind of things earn respect in your eyes?  What kind of things lose respect?

Just another, hopefully, thought provoking post of mine....

Sir Draco.



It is really very simple. It has nothing to do with Dom sub switch vanilla it doesnt matter, I have one rule of thumb, if you want respect from you you must show respect for me. It doesnt matter if I just met you 2 secents ago or if I have known you my entire life, I give what I get. If you are curtiuse to me you will get the same thing back, though I try to always be curtiouse no matter what, there is a sertain extent to what I will take befor giveing back what Im getting if you are rude to me.

ms

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to SirDraco7)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Respect? - 7/25/2007 10:40:28 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

Is it instant? Must it be earned?

What kind of things earn respect in your eyes? What kind of things lose respect?



One must earn and maintain my respect. It is never instant.

Class, honesty, sound reasoning, self actualization and a sober eye for reality earns my respect; the opposites of these qualities degrades it.

(in reply to SirDraco7)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Respect? - 7/26/2007 6:32:01 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
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Everyone I meet gets common, ordinary, vanilla respect.  I don't give an honorific to anyone, although I am always polite.  To me, the honorific is a special offering and carries with it certain expectations for the one who honors and the honored.

One of the things that it means is that I am open and willing to submit to this person, even in limited to small ways.  I simply refuse to put myself in that position with someone I've just met.  So in that regard, yes, respect must be earned.  That's my choice as a submissive person on her own.  If, and in the past, my dominant prefers me to use the honorific with everyone, then that's his choice and I obey.  Why the difference?  Because my dominant would have my trust and complete respect.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Respect? - 7/26/2007 2:07:50 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

What I'm asking is just respect in general.  The basic form of it. 
  I think you're confusing courtesy with respect. I try to be courteous to everyone until they prove that they're not worthy of it. My respect is something that is for people that I know and have acted in a manner that has earned my respect.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to SirDraco7)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Respect? - 7/26/2007 2:17:15 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Amayos, I just, love, love, LOVE... your new photo!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Respect? - 7/26/2007 2:18:06 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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Similar to what OsideGirl said, I will try to be respectful (although she said courteous, but they are about the same, no?) to others, whether or not I respect them.  I come to respect others or not based on their values and ethics, how they present themselves, and the way they treat others.  But I find that being respectful is a reflection of me, not the person I am talking to.  I must treat others in a way that feels right to me, regardless of whether or not I think they deserve it.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Respect? - 7/26/2007 5:37:51 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7


Now the question.  What about respect?
Is it instant?  Must it be earned as well?


If you want my respect you'll have to earn it. It's too important to me to bestow on any Dom, Dick or Hairy to come along. 


quote:

Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?


Yep, pretty much. I give the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't equate to giving someone respect.
quote:

Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?


I don't make that assumption, but sometimes it doesn't take long to come to that conclusion.
quote:

Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

No, they still have to earn it and I hope they make me earn it as well so it means something.

quote:

And as a side opinion type question.  What kind of things earn respect in your eyes? 


Most of the time it comes down to how you treat people. If you are prick, you can expect to meet a cunt. If you are kind to the waitress, the dog and little kids, that will help earn my respect.

quote:

What kind of things lose respect?


Refusing to accept responsibility for your own actions and words. Taking things out of context, cheating, failing to live up to obligations because you're too lazy rather than through something over which you have no control, and other stuff. But that's probably enough of a list for right now.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SirDraco7)
Profile   Post #: 52
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