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RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/22/2007 11:12:32 PM

DarkDreams123

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Just to answer this one ...
He didn't constantly speak with me in those terms, they occassionally crept in, more strongly so when we discussed topics that could become a little heated (am not talking cyber sex here, but particular needs and wants we had) I did mention several times how i thought it wasn't appropriate and that it made me uncomfortable at the stage we were at. He agreed and back tracked. I didn't hold this against him initially but the alarm bells rang when it seemed to be his "default" way of refferring to his submissive sexual partner. Especially when that default setting seems to overide the information given him before and cause him to jump to a rather large assumption.

Now this man was party to information about me that would mean he understood clearly that whatever the location of the first, second, or fifth date, sex and play would not be an option. I like objectification and hot first time sex as much as the next girl but i dont like it as much as having had a reasonable courtship first. Call me old fashioned, but ... well .... I am old fashioned.

Greetings softness,

Sorry, I guess that I was responding to your post without the complete picture.

However, I still say that inviting someone to your home on the second date could send mixed signals.

I am glad that nothing happened to you.

Good luck in the future,

-DarkDreams

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 41

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/23/2007 1:52:33 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

My two answers;

It is for you to decide if it was a compliment or not, to myself it wouldn't have been.
An insult to your intelligence? No, but perhaps a test of your intelligence.

No I don't think it unfair for you to "test" his treatment of you, although it might have been better to just talk about how those comments made you feel. You always have the "right" to ask questions and set boundaries until you both have decided you want to enter a relationship, made agreements about how you want to interact in the relationship and made commitments to it.

Missy.

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(in reply to softness)

Post #: 42

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/23/2007 2:08:55 AM

NControlofU

Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
I pride myself on being an excellent communicator, to the extent that i make a living about teaching other people about verbal and written communication. I understand the implied and literal meaning behind words shared better than most. I am both willing and able to communicate effectively, though i caanot vouch for anybody else.

You pride yourself on being an excellent communicator, when you allow someone you don't know to make you feel uneasy with the words he uses to refer to you and you didn't let him know? You didn't communicate to him how his words were making you feel and let him continue to speak to you like this? I have to wonder about your skills as an excellent communicator.....

False assumptions and expectations can be made by what isn't said, even more than by what is said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Things like the way he would refer to the female body as meat, that in some conversations I was only referred to in the third person, occassionally even as "it". Now these things have all been part of my service before, I do not shy from them, but there was a degree of uneasiness caused by them coming from someone I hardly knew.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 43

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/23/2007 5:58:42 AM

YesMistressIrish

Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dane

I wouldn't feel very safe at being called "meat" and especially "irresistible meat that a man can't control himself from using" on a second date. I'd feel decidedly UNsafe. If he can't control that, what else will he turn out not to be able to control? I think whether it's fair or not is a moot point. The essence of dominance is self-control. This guy sounds like he thinks the essence of dominance is getting his rocks off. I'd be scared to meet him.

Bingo! What Dane said.

Also, because you invited him into your home for dinner and conversation does not mean anything other than what you offered. He made a quick assumption and started giving you orders without asking you if you were ready to get intimate or be dominated by him.

(in reply to Dane)

Post #: 44

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/23/2007 12:47:13 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NControlofU

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
I pride myself on being an excellent communicator, to the extent that i make a living about teaching other people about verbal and written communication. I understand the implied and literal meaning behind words shared better than most. I am both willing and able to communicate effectively, though i caanot vouch for anybody else.

You pride yourself on being an excellent communicator, when you allow someone you don't know to make you feel uneasy with the words he uses to refer to you and you didn't let him know? You didn't communicate to him how his words were making you feel and let him continue to speak to you like this? I have to wonder about your skills as an excellent communicator.....

False assumptions and expectations can be made by what isn't said, even more than by what is said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Things like the way he would refer to the female body as meat, that in some conversations I was only referred to in the third person, occassionally even as "it". Now these things have all been part of my service before, I do not shy from them, but there was a degree of uneasiness caused by them coming from someone I hardly knew.

as I said above .. I did communicate my feeling about his choice of words, several times, and he acknowledged he understood several times.

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(in reply to NControlofU)

Post #: 45

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/24/2007 10:14:04 PM

goodgirl85

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

A compliment to your body, an insult to you as a person??? Shrugs... First thing that came to mind. And no... we all test our partners every now and then...I am sure even those who have grown old together, for whatever reason. I know I have tested people, in subtle and not so subtle ways, that I am both getting to know, and have known for awhile.

(in reply to dovie)

Post #: 46

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/24/2007 10:21:27 PM

Marc2b

Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

My response was that if a man could not show the self restraint required to keep his pants on for a second date then how was i expected to trust him with the self restraint to play with me responsibly.

Sounds like someone who can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. If a man can't master himself first, he has no business demanding a woman call him master. Just my opinon.

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(in reply to goodgirl85)

Post #: 47

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 8:22:38 AM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

I would say it was neither.
I would be leery of someone who acted like that but also have to
note that sometimes people get the wrong ideas when it comes to a date at home.

Trust your instincts and gut feelings and you'll do fine.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 48

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 8:44:48 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: tag8833
If I recieved an invitation like that I would likely assume that you are inviting me for sex and play. I would not suggest using your private residense as the location for a second date unless you were first clear on the activities to take place, and even then I think it is a poor idea if sex and play are off the table. Go see a play. Visit a museum. How about the local zoo. Fine dining at a restraunt. If you want to prepare the food, then make it a picknick.

I also consider it an unfair test because you intentionally or not implied that you were open to something you are not. If I recieved such an offer, I would feel conflicted refusing it for risk of insulting you.

Finally, at the first time any misqueue exists, you should take the time to outline what you expect from a relationship. It is too easy to put a roadblock up in a promising relationship just because you weren't willing or able to effectively communicate.

With all honesty i did not imply that anything would happen, in fact in all the conversations we shared i consistently made the point clear that there would be no sex or play of anykind whatsoever for quite some time.

I pride myself on being an excellent communicator, to the extent that i make a living about teaching other people about verbal and written communication. I understand the implied and literal meaning behind words shared better than most. I am both willing and able to communicate effectively, though i caanot vouch for anybody else.

Seriously, when did a dinner invite turn into a *hey what i REALLY meant is come on over and jump my bones*....i mean really....wow...some men really do think with just their dicks....i always thought that was just a joke....learning something every day....LOL

< Message edited by imthatacheyouhav -- 7/25/2007 8:45:51 AM >

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(in reply to softness)

Post #: 49

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 11:01:25 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

If a man can't master himself first, he has no business demanding a woman call him master. Just my opinon.

Not just your opinion, Marc2b

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 50

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 12:15:03 PM

PONYSEEKER

Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

My response was that if a man could not show the self restraint required to keep his pants on for a second date then how was i expected to trust him with the self restraint to play with me responsibly.

So two questions ...
Now was it a compliment to me that he wouldn't be able to resist me... or an insult to my intelligence?
Was I unfair to effectively "test" his treatment of me when he knew there would be no sex or service?

[/quote]

Put down your vibrator and back away very slowly....lol
It may or may not be a compliment in his ability to not resist you. In a sense you could say that you are sexy enough to be irisistable. On the other hand it shows a lack of control. If it was meant as a compliment I would think that he would back down quickly once he knew that no sex was going to take place but for him to act as though it was an ego crush that can be a very bad sign in the sense that Doms must be able to have a great degree of self control think about it.... its your ass and you want a Dom that knows how to treat it and that requires self control.
When you combine a lack of self control with phrases like MEAT very early on then that can be reason for concern because he is not showing you respect prior to the creation of a dynamic. When you are on your hands and knees shaking and begging thats when you should be called and treated like a piece of meat not in your everyday dynamic unless you are about to become meat if that makes any sense. You were certainly not unfair in testing him out first. If we were chatting and I said come on over and let me beat you and you were on my doorstep twenty minutes later I would be rather concerned and probably wouldnt have much to do with you beyond that night at least...LOL

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 51

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 1:34:59 PM

EclipseAbove

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

I'm going to skip the original questions (the horse's corpse has been thoroughly beaten) and just comment on the 2nd date invitation. If it were me, I wouldn't take such an invitation as anything other than a home cooked meal and good conversation. I'd probably be prepared for more, just in case, but I wouldn't expect it. However, I know many men who would see it as a very possible invitation for more or at least an opportunity to "create" more unless they were specifically told otherwise in advance. And I also know a few scumbags who would show up at the door with their pants around their ankles, wearing a condom no matter what they were told. So, I don't see anything wrong with the invitation, but it may give some people the wrong idea.

(in reply to PONYSEEKER)

Post #: 52

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 1:35:01 PM

chey

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline

Seems like the question has been answered many different ways so I'm not sure what I can add. Its hard to determine what I would have done in the same situation because I don't know everything, I mean this situation occurred over a period of months or weeks right? I can say that if he were referring to me with words that made me uncomfortable even after I asked him to stop I probably would never have agreed to meet him. And if I did plan to meet him for coffee, knowing myself, I would have not even talked about a second meeting until we had the first one. For me that initial meeting is the one where I am able to tell if there is a spark. I come away from a lot of "coffee" dates with good friends. For that reason I take it one step at a time, but am usually anxious for at least that first meeting so that I know in my own mind where things could possibly go. There are always the men I meet who I know just from our online or phone conversations that I will never meet, your man falls into that category for me.

(in reply to PONYSEEKER)

Post #: 53

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 3:57:16 PM

Azurenee

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline

I don't have any wise answer or even informed opinion, but this is related to something I've been thinking about alot today. I don't want to hijack the thread and don't know if this is supposed to go elsewhere. I am really curious about the dating protocol between D/s when they are first meeting. I'm not asking about the safety call, or public location kind of stuff. I'm talking about the interaction that occurs in the first few weeks/months of coming to know each other.

It is unclear to me whether it is unreasonable to expect that there be no assertions whatsoever. For example: telling me what He wants me to wear, how and where I should sit, when I should listen, or look into His face. I really don't know what is the 'norm' (if there is such a thing). All I know is that I do not give my submission, unless it is something I might be interested in actually pursuing with a Dom. And if W/we haven't established a mutual interest and understanding, submission is not happening however much I might want to give. I don't even like to submit in the small things for anyone unless I am comfortable on that path with understanding and some trust established.

So how does it happen? Is it incremental and gradual over time as Y/you spend time to know each other. Or is it like one day you decide to go from complete autonomy to a degree of submission? Is there a book of dating rules for D/s dummies?

My apology in advance if it was rude for me to put this here. I usually learn by trial and error. (and a good paddle always helps)
~a~

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Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel? Yet let me flap this bug with gilded wings. This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings. Whose buzz the witty and the fair annoys. Yet wit ne'er tastes, and beauty ne'r enjoys…

Alexander Pope, 1735

(in reply to chey)

Post #: 54

RE: insult ... or compliment - 7/25/2007 6:47:50 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I've talked with an awful lot of women through the years...friends, girlfriends, cousins, submissives. I've called almost all of them varying terms. The submissives have been called "worse/objectifying" terms more often...naturally. But, even in dealings with submissives I know...if they tell me that a certain term makes them uncomfortable, I don't just apologize, I quit using it. I might ask them why it makes them uncomfortable but I quit. His inability to do so speaks, ironically so, of just what he said in his "compliment"...i.e., the inability to control himself.

That is a baaaaaaaaaaaaad sign for a dominant.

(in reply to Azurenee)

Post #: 55

RE: insult ... or compliment - 8/1/2007 10:05:17 AM

SoulRavager

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

Timing is everything. The same term or horrific fanatsy can be a complete wonderment or a sign of impending doom, depending on when and in what context it is conveyed.

Its hard enough to gauge and interpret subtleties in real life and three dimensions, its almost foolish to try and figure things out in this clumsy medium.

go with your gut, stay safe. if someone is worth a risk, meet quickly in a sfe and public place, and get an intuitive sense when you can see and smell him. then discuss possibilites of ravishment face to face, rather than struggling over cryptic messages online.

good luck!

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 56

RE: insult ... or compliment - 8/1/2007 11:38:18 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

I told my potential * at the time* Dom, that there will be no play, no sex, no bdsm, first meetings are not for that,He accepted it and was more than willing to not lay a hand on me, and still quite glad to come over. It turns out I practically molested him at the onset of the meeting, we did end up having sex, but at my insistance.

So, No. And no. No it was not a compliment that he wouldn't be able to keep his dick to himself, it was a glimps of his true charachter, and how little else he thinks of anything but his dick and when it's gonna be put somewhere hot tight and juicy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Was I unfair to effectively "test" his treatment of me when he knew there would be no sex or service?

_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 57

RE: insult ... or compliment - 8/1/2007 2:13:55 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

So two questions ...
Now was it a compliment to me that he wouldn't be able to resist me... or an insult to my intelligence?
Was I unfair to effectively "test" his treatment of me when he knew there would be no sex or service?

an insult to your intelligence, and you were fair.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 58

RE: insult ... or compliment - 8/1/2007 6:46:11 PM

Rockwell

Posts: 63
Status: offline

Hi,
You were disapointed. He just isn't your cup of tea. Nothing terrible happened right?
A lousy date. Now you know he is not for you.

I'm sorry to say that many men ( vanilla too) would take that cozy home dinner invite as a seduction. Not that it is right.
Please listen more closely in the beginning - more closely to your senses. You knew he was hot on the "meat" bit ( his fantasy) and it conflicted with your values and dreams. He showed his colors early on.

But, you are well and can move on to find what you really want and be happy.

Go for it!
Z

(in reply to daddysliloneds)

Post #: 59

RE: insult ... or compliment - 8/1/2007 8:18:39 PM

Owned1

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline

I would suggest he is one who thinks BDSM is simply a way to get sex his way whenever he wants. I was once talking to a dude who suggested on our first meet we would have a meal in a public place at the end of the meal if he wanted he would indicate so and we would then go to a motel to have sex. When I suggested this was not what I was comfortable with he basically said it was his way or no way. I am sure you can imagine what my response was~~we never met!!

There are many especially online who take this tactic, unless you are looking for raw sex and nothing else simply walk away.

I do not see this as a test of you moreso a wanker looking for sex.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 60

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