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Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 2:46:39 PM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Do you ever try to let other Doms know what is and isn't correct in terms of treatment of subs?  I'm often stunned by how some men treat me here.  It sent me to the police once, and has made me try vanilla, sometimes for a couple of years at a time.  It seems like in some cases men are actively trying to humiliate or scare women out.

I sometimes feel helpless, scared, like it just isn't worth it, and why should I bother?  Do men ever brag about showing some "b**** her place" or anything like that?  Do you tell try to get them to tone down their behavior?

I don't understand:  Why do men do it?  Given the law of supply and demand, I would think that, just with self-interest, don't they want more women here?  I mean, even if he would never, in a million years, want to be with me (or vice versa), what is to be gained by diminishing the supply of kinky girls?  Doesn't that just make it harder in the long run?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 3:23:10 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		i think that some people (male AND female) use the term Dominant as an excuse to treat people like dirt.  and if they can find someone that lets them treat them that way, then their fantasy is complete.

unfortunately, it DOES hurt the ones who are looking for a good honest Dominant.....

kitten, who has been called fake, among other things...

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 3:44:39 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is what happens when you put more than one male in the room at the same time.

It isn't a BDSM phenomenon.  It's a guy thing.  I work in a workplace that is traditionally male-oriented, and it goes on all the time.  Occasionally I'll get pulled into the middle of it, and my responses usually provoke a scratching-of-head or three.

I'd watch that temper, though.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 3:57:51 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		First.. I tend to stay out of the lockeroom . I find a guy that treats a girl like shit doesn't tend to listen to anyone but himself. 

If you want to change guys like that,....then girls like you need to stop interacting with them.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 3:58:05 PM   
RaynaSub


Posts: 185
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		You see it a lot here on the boards, many think that macho behavior makes
them more manly.
I see it as a small man with a big problem.
Learn to look at them and feel sorry for them, usually it is a sign of very low esteem.

If you do not feel safe for any reason, you should not be alone with someone you are not comfortable with.
Also, since you have had to call the police before, you need to practice safe calls for a long time.

< Message edited by RaynaSub -- 7/22/2007 4:10:00 PM >

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 4:41:20 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

First.. I tend to stay out of the lockeroom . I find a guy that treats a girl like shit doesn't tend to listen to anyone but himself. 

If you want to change guys like that,....then girls like you need to stop interacting with them.


Seconded.

I don't interact with men who treat women like shit - they simply aren't worth my time no matter how special they think they are. Because Valyraen agrees with me, we (both individually and as a couple) don't interact with them, avoid them at social gatherings if they must be present and we have no qualms about telling them they are not welcome in our home and why.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/22/2007 6:54:33 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack
Why do men do it?  Given the law of supply and demand, I would think that, just with self-interest, don't they want more women here? 


As KoM says, it is supply and demand, and they behave that way because it works (or has worked for them in the past). The only way to get men to change their behavior is for women to stop replying. I believe that there are a LOT of women on here who do respond well to men who portay themselves in that way.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 8:32:52 AM   
PAcpllooking


Posts: 73
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline 		When ever I hear a Dom start talking about how he enjoys punishing a sub because they screwed up or its something to enjoy I walk away and just shake my head.
If I have to punish a sub I feel that its my mistake because I havent been able to make her want to serve me, hence its my fault. Now if she screws up because I wasnt clear then its my fault and she doesnt get punished and I do apologize.
It seems like that is what most concentrate on today and I attribute it too the online world.  Many Doms and subs write how they felt accomplished and loved when they were punished so many take that type of action as something that is ok and actually needed.
Is punishment part of the lifestyle? Yes, but it should be used when a sub screws up knowingly. My favorite punishment is corner time.
Sometimes a sub will act out to get attention or to check to see if the Dom is paying attention. This happens alot and is just part of the picture. But that doesnt mean that it should be an action that is enjoyed by the Dom.
If I have to punish a sub for something more then two times I have a long talk with her to see if she is serious about serving me, is lacking attention or if it is just a turn on for her. How she answers dictates how I act going forward.

William

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 10:55:57 AM   
EclipseAbove


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

Do you ever try to let other Doms know what is and isn't correct in terms of treatment of subs? 


Sometimes I do, but only if the Dom is someone I know well enough that they will take what I'm saying as a constructive suggestion.  Most of the time, I don't say anything because it almost certainly leads to them directing their poor behavior at me and life is too short.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

I don't understand:  Why do men do it?  Given the law of supply and demand, I would think that, just with self-interest, don't they want more women here?  I mean, even if he would never, in a million years, want to be with me (or vice versa), what is to be gained by diminishing the supply of kinky girls?  Doesn't that just make it harder in the long run?


I think the people who mistreat others are struggling with their own insecurities and are attempting to overcome those insecurities by acting out on others.  If someone feels "small" or insecure, controlling or bullying someone else is going to make them feel "big" at least for a little while.  And D/s is all about the illusion of controlling someone else and it is no doubt appealing to those who are insecure (who of course miss the illusion and consent part of it).  Of course the reality is that before you can really control anyone else, you need to have control over yourself (not an easy task).  I'm sure that those who mistreat others don't see themselves as diminishing the supply, but rather getting rid of those who are "unworthy" (read:  those who won't just take the abuse quietly).  Not sure if I'm right, but it makes sense to me.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 11:23:48 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		When I've gotten email like this, I find the best thing to do is ask if they would call their mother and tell her this is his preferred interraction mode with women. I ask if he would like it if someone spoke to his mother/sister/daughter in this manner.

They never write back not even to thank me for the lesson in manners!

(in reply to EclipseAbove)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 4:37:55 PM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking

When ever I hear a Dom start talking about how he enjoys punishing a sub because they screwed up or its something to enjoy I walk away and just shake my head.
If I have to punish a sub I feel that its my mistake because I havent been able to make her want to serve me, hence its my fault. Now if she screws up because I wasnt clear then its my fault and she doesnt get punished and I do apologize.
It seems like that is what most concentrate on today and I attribute it too the online world.  Many Doms and subs write how they felt accomplished and loved when they were punished so many take that type of action as something that is ok and actually needed.
Is punishment part of the lifestyle? Yes, but it should be used when a sub screws up knowingly. My favorite punishment is corner time.
Sometimes a sub will act out to get attention or to check to see if the Dom is paying attention. This happens alot and is just part of the picture. But that doesnt mean that it should be an action that is enjoyed by the Dom.
If I have to punish a sub for something more then two times I have a long talk with her to see if she is serious about serving me, is lacking attention or if it is just a turn on for her. How she answers dictates how I act going forward.

William



This is totally different from what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about having coffee with someone, me not wanting to see him again, and he calls and calls and calls and then publishes my phone number in various websites as a sex worker who does violent rape fantasies so men keep calling with very non-consensual, very dark, to the point it is hard to trust.  And you get it removed from one web site and it ends up on another.   And then publishing my first name, phone number, where I work and that I'm into kink on another web site.

I'm talking about men humiliating you over areas that you have had full disclosure.  For example, I don't have acne, I actually have good skin, but let's say I said in my profile 'occasional breakouts' and then sent a photo and another he said "you call that occasional breakouts?  That is the worst acne I've ever seen--you look like a pizza--no a pizza has less red than you, a pomegrante--how dare you think anyone would be attracted to you?  You disgust me.  No one will ever love you."  Like I said, hasn't happend over acne, but has happened over other things, some of which hit incredibly raw nerves.

Intellectually I know I should be thicker skinned.  But I can't be and also stay soft.  It is one or the other, so I choose to be hurt in order to be able to stay available to someone else, but it is exhausting and it has driven me to the vanilla world for years on end. 

And obviously, I'd never go out with any of these men, but I don't think I have any power over them.  I don't think their behaviour will change until other men make it clear they can't treat women that way.  And all men should want to keep the kinky gals here--it makes the math better.

(in reply to PAcpllooking)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 5:18:28 PM   
EclipseAbove


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		There is a polite word for people who behave like that - jerk.  I'm sure everyone can think of several not-so-polite synonyms.

Sadly, there isn't much that can be done beyond what you are doing.  If you give someone any personal information, they can post it all over the place if they want to.  It isn't right, but they can do it.  I'm very sorry that you have had experiences like that.  People like that give human beings a bad name.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 6:32:42 PM   
aparootsa


Posts: 49
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline 		I tend to correct my friends when I think they're over the line, but strangers or acquaintences I don't bother at all. Trust needs to be established between people before corrective advice (as opposed to solicited or suggestive advice) can be productive, and I just don't reach that point with guys who habitually mistreat people.

As far as the jerks - there are many of them, and they're surprisingly successful, especially in the short run. It's just as hard for us 'softer' guys to watch nice girls (not that all y'all are, but those that are nice) go off with some dude we know is an ass as it is for you girls when you realize how much an ass he is. And we have to watch you fall for them again and again and again.

What it takes is for you to stop falling for them, for you to help other girls not to fall for them, and for us to pressure them to straighten up and start pursuing girls that want to be treated poorly (of which there are actually some) rather than screwing with the heads and hearts of girls that aren't actually good matches for them either.

(in reply to EclipseAbove)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/23/2007 9:15:42 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The only real way to change other people's behaviour is to lead by example. We really do get back what we put out. When a woman is regarded as "a lady" in public, she will tend to be treated that way even by the locker room badasses. When a Dom gains the respect of his peers, others will emulate His behaviour. Telling people how to behave never works. Showing them how to behave always does.

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to aparootsa)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 8:16:20 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		My question to you is, if you are meeting them for coffee for the first time, and you obviously have no further interest in them, Why on Earth are you Giving them your Personal Information?!?!?!?!?!?

Seriously, you are giving out way too much detail about yourself and your life in a first contact meeting. STOP THAT.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 7:05:49 PM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

My question to you is, if you are meeting them for coffee for the first time, and you obviously have no further interest in them, Why on Earth are you Giving them your Personal Information?!?!?!?!?!?

Seriously, you are giving out way too much detail about yourself and your life in a first contact meeting. STOP THAT.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


I don't do it anymore, but not giving out a cell when you are meeting is hard--if someone is running late, they can't call, etc.  As for where I work, I rarely give it out--I think it came up in a coversation over restuarants and I mentioned a place by 'where I work." 

I continually run this line of not wanting to be paranoid and not wanting to release info.  I had started to relax about things thinking 'really, this is paranoid,' when, obviously, it was just smart.

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 8:13:08 PM   
Donaldnola


Posts: 20
Joined: 4/29/2007
Status: offline 		There are some that call themselfs Dom`s and in fact are children.Why would someone misstreat a Lady like there dirt is beyound me.Even my sub knows I think of her as a Lady .Do not give up on this lifestyle you will meet some good peaple .A word of warning do not give out things that could come back and bite you late . It takes time to build a trusting relationship and try to work towards that first. If they don`t want to take the time to do so that should give you a warning light right then

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 8:53:18 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		Men aren't bad.  Women aren't bad.  No doubt you can find examples of shitty guys who do shitty things, but there are just as many shitty women who do shitty things.  Some people treat other people shitty, and most don't. 

What adult doesn't understand this?  What adult hasn't figured out that you'll bump up against the occaisonal shit-head from time to time? 

If what you are writing about is the random misfortune of running into a couple of jerks, I'm sorry, and also, any adult knows that is happenstance, not a systemic issue with men ("I'm often stunned by how some men treat me here. ..It seems like in some cases men are actively trying to humiliate or scare women out.").  If instead you are trying to construct men, as a sex, as systemically abusive or misogynistic, you've got the problem.  The one thing every relationship and attempted relationship you've had is you.


_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to Donaldnola)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 8:58:16 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

Do you ever try to let other Doms know what is and isn't correct in terms of treatment of subs?


No.  Live and let live.  Unless the sub is having her consent violated, it's up to her.

Some Doms beat their subs practically lifeless.  And they're into that.  I'm not even a sadist, so I can't begin to empathize with such a feeling.  Nonetheless, it's what works for them?  Sure, whatever.  And if a sub is in such a situation and she's not happy with it?  If I see such a thing, I may mention it to her that she should consider her situation, but, in the end, it's her life, and she needs to make the call.

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Lockerroom Talk - 7/25/2007 8:58:53 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Faramir reminds me a lot of Tolerance Camp from South Park.

Next, he will make everyone sit outside all day along in the hot sun with no food or water, drawing colored pictures of people of different races holding hands, only to tear them up and make us redraw them.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 20
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