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correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 7:07:12 AM

dovemagic

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline

I am relatively new to the lifestyle (8 months) and even less time in an active community. I make mistakes, I make lots of mistakes. the problem is nobody tells me, or corrects ME! they instend go to the Master of the Dungeon, who logs it as a complaint. I was stunned recently to find out that I was in danger of being banned from the dungeon when i didn't know I had done anything wrong! I asked to see the "numerous complaints" and he refused because he didn't want me "retaliating". I just want to know what I am doing so that I will quit doing it. I talked to another Dom in the dungeon who entioned a couple of things I had done that he had notcied and when I asked why I wasn't told he said "Because you aren't their sub" One of my mistakes is to do something that a Dom has asked his sub to do. (I.e. I was in the kitchen and a Dom asked his sub, which was at his feet, to get him a cup of coffee. I promptly brought him the coffee.) Another was to pick up a toy belonging to a Dom to show to another Dom without asking permission first. I am not intentionally screwing up...I just don't know and how am I going to know if nbody tells me.

Post #: 1

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 7:22:37 AM

Isolde

Posts: 213
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Status: offline

I would be leery of any place/group of people that didn't treat me as if I were an adult capable of hearing and correcting mistakes I'd been making. Just because you're submissive and not attached to anyone doesn't mean that you should be left to float like that, without a chance to improve. If they aren't brave/mature/intelligent enough to step up and say "Hey dovemagic, you shouldn't do this or this will happen" in a setting where you will be penalized for continued mistakes, then you might want to reconsider associating with them.

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 2

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 7:38:06 AM

dovemagic

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline

I think that there are two things that contribute to the problem. One is that I joined an established group as a total "newbie". though others have joined after me they ave moved to the area from other places and have years of experience. Also I am middleage and people assume that I have been in the lifestyle for years. I have recieved an e-mail from a Dom and Sub offerring to mentor me. I am not sure what they mean by that or whether or not it would be a good thing.

(in reply to Isolde)

Post #: 3

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 10:18:28 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Like Isolde said, this kinda makes me wary.

As I see it, you shouldn't need a "mentor" to be able to be invovled in a group. This kinda is one reason I steared away from the realtime community--I was tired of not being given adult consideration because I was young and a submissive person.

Anyway, I would probably talk to the person "in charge" if that's appropriate and voice your concerns. Namely, that you're trying to learn but you're finding that "getting in trouble" for things you didn't even know were wrong is making you uncomfortable. People who feel wronged should be able to approach you. Especiallyas you aren't attached to someone, they should be able to tell you, openly, that they were made uncomfortable by what you did. (Granted, the stuff you mention is so teeny I'm not sure wy they're getting upset, but to each their own)

While mentoring can be a good thing, I'm not personally a fan of it. I like personal, independant growth and believe that one can become pretty darn good at this stuff without a "mentor." Friends are nice, always, but it seems that when someone assumes the title "mentor" there get to be weird dynamics between them that I am not fond of.

Good luck and welcome to all this!

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 4

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 11:33:25 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

You need to open your mouth and ASK them to tell you when you are messing up. A good one to talk with might be the sub whose master you fetched coffee for when it was her duty. Ask her if you can talk with her. Explain that you're new and just don't know what you're doing. Tell her that someone pointed out that you'd done something that was considered wrong to her and you are so very sorry. You were trying so hard that you overstepped yourself. Ask her forgiveness. Once you have it, ask her if she'd mind advising you when you seem to be doing wrong things. Start telling people, I'm new and I'm sorry if I'm screwing up. Would you please tell me if I overstep myself. Ask the dungeon master how many complaints you have against you. You need to write an apology note. Make it something like:

I'm sorry this isn't a personal letter of apology, but the Dungeon Master is protecting your privacy. All I know is that I have offended. I am so sorry. I'd not meant any harm. I am new and while I realize that ignorance of the law is no defense, I am working to learn so I don't repeat the mistakes I've made in the past.
Thank you for taking the time to read this,
Dove

Now, go read some of the links I'm giving you on dungeon etiquette. They're not specific to YOUR dungeon (you need to ask for a list of the local rules, btw) but they are pretty general and will give you more of an idea of what is considered bad manners in general.
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/mali/18/playrules.html
http://www.leatherfamilyonline.com/full_story.cfm?i=39
http://www.steel-door.com/dungeon_etiquette.htm

As to the mentor thing, you have to rely on your own inner voice. It can be a good or bad thing. Consider the reputation of these people in your community. I personally have a submissive friend I keep an eye out for when we're at events and I mention if there is something he should or shouldn't be doing. He is not my sub, I am not his mentor.. we are friends. I feel it is best when learning is done via this type of informal arrangement.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 5

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 11:41:24 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

* give the apology notes to the dungeon master and ask him to pass it along to the people who complained.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 6

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 12:39:02 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

So they're worried about your retaliating if you find out what the complaints are, but not worried about your retaliating if they ban you from the club altogether?

That's bullshit, and you should find a better place to play.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: dovemagic

I was stunned recently to find out that I was in danger of being banned from the dungeon when i didn't know I had done anything wrong! I asked to see the "numerous complaints" and he refused because he didn't want me "retaliating".

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 7

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 1:20:15 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

I see this a little differently than the other posters. You are trying to be helpful, and while I'm sure it is appreciated, I suspect that the problem is that you are assuming to take these tasks upon yourself to do, when it may not be your place to do them. The dominant who instructed his submissive to get him coffee gave those instructions to her. It was her place to follow through...not yours. Its possible that he does not allow anyone but her to serve him, as she has earned that right and because she has earned that right and you haven't, she probably wasn't too happy about it either.

I would suggest being friendly and polite, but *asking* before presuming to do something for someone. Even shaking hands, calling them sir, or whatever. You can't go wrong by saying "how would you prefer to be addressed?" or "may I?" indicating you would like to shake hands with or give someone's submissive a hug.

Its hard being new, and even harder when people will not tell you what you are doing wrong. Different people have different etiquette and it varies greatly, making it even more difficult. However, if you ask questions, keep your hands to yourself, and don't assume, you should do fine :)

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 8

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 1:41:25 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Although the behavior of the people frequenting this dungeon you attend seems a bit screwy, at least as the way you describe it, you shoulder most of the blame here. Your profile shows you to be 54 years old. Hardly a child. Why would you take it upon yourself to perform a task that was clearly given to a slave to do for her Master? And picking up and using a toy that belongs to someone else without permission should be something you should already know is wrong. Use your common sense and think before you act next time.

< Message edited by Estring -- 6/26/2005 1:44:38 PM >

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 9

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 8:40:34 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

I read through this thread, thinking exactly what Estring expressed. Recognizing and respecting other people's boundaries should in general keep you out of trouble.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 10

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/26/2005 9:11:05 PM

noumenon

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2005
Status: offline

I have to agree with Estring and LadyAngelika.

The loosest advice I could give without understanding your unique situation is that you should re-evaluate your goals. Take into consideration what the best steps would be to achieve these goals and whether or not you are taking those steps. If you are unable to do this on your own, then in my opinion that would be the proper time to begin seeking a mentor. No matter what you do, make sure you analyze the situation first to the best of your ability. I have found that the choice you should be making is usually the one you would recommend other people make in your situation. Also, communicating your thoughts and emotions is a vital step in making any sort of progress involving relationships. Whether it be casual or monogomous. Good luck.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 11

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/27/2005 7:16:48 AM

Jayxkes

Posts: 138
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline

Regardless of age, it is never easy entering a new community alone. As with all life, communication is the key, so talk to folk. Very, very few would mind if you approach them whilst they are not busy and asked for some guidence about that particular dungeon/club/munch etc. However the DMs are best placed to assist, though do approach them at a quiet time. They have other responsibilities too ;)

This is an old Dungeon Ettiqette guide I wrote some yaers ago, as it says it is not exhaustive. I suggest that you not only read it, but also look at why each point is made, that will give you a good start........

Dungeon parties / play parties can be a mind blowing, wonderful experience. They are great places to watch ‘experts’ and find new ideas and techniques. Most have a selection of dungeon equipment that most of us can only dream of fitting into our homes!
This list of dungeon etiquette is by no means exhaustive; it is a good base though!
1. DO NOT interfere with couples or groups who are doing a scene together. Not only is it bad manners to crowd them or try and push in, you can easily spoil the scene for them! If they want you, you will be invited.

2. DO NOT touch or talk to a sub during a scene, unless asked to do so. Touching or talking to a sub on the edge of sub space, even with the best of intentions, can ruin their whole night!

3. DO NOT talk to, or distract, a Dominant during a scene. Their job is to concentrate on what they are doing!

4. DO, however, feel free to talk to people who are not involved in a scene. This is a great way to meet new people; learn new techniques; check out new equipment; ask for help etc. The vast majority of people are happy to help and advise when asked at the appropriate time.

5. DO NOT walk between a Dominant and a submissive whilst corporal punishment is taking place. Whips and canes etc. are designed to hurt; you will NOT be where they are meant to land and could well end up seriously hurt! Likewise be very careful if you need to walk behind a Dominant as he / she is swinging back and taking aim. If you are hit accidentally, you have ONLY yourself to blame.

6. DO check with the Dungeon Master first if you feel concern about how someone else is playing. What’s too much for you, may be just a warm up for them!

7. DO NOT touch other people's equipment, clothes, toys, etc. If you want to borrow something, always ASK first. And make sure you return it afterwards!

8. DO NOT touch someone else’s sub, unless asked to do so by their Dominant. Remember that for some, leaving a sub in bondage and /or blindfolded etc., is all an important part of their scene. It is highly unlikely that a sub has been forgotten about!

9. DO NOT lounge around and sit on the bondage benches and dungeon furniture. Find a chair. If you are sitting on the equipment, you are preventing someone else from using it for its intended purpose!

10. DO feel free to watch a scene. The people involved are aware that they are in public and won’t mind you watching. It is a very good way to learn new techniques and get some idea of how the various implements are used.

11. DO play at your own level. There is no prize for whoever plays hardest! There are very good reasons, & no shame, in playing lightly if that is what you want to do.

12. DO have a drink ready for your sub to drink after the scene is over. Many subs find playing very dehydrating, having the drink ready means you can attend to her thirst as part of the scene aftercare. [ it also means you can send your sub to the bar to fetch the drinks!!! ;o) ]

Most importantly, DO have fun!
Jay
([email protected])

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 12

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 6/30/2005 12:27:25 PM

flirt

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/16/2004
Status: offline

While i agree with most of the advice given in replies here i also would like to add a few things.

Being a member of a few 'groups' and having started one along with my former Master i feel i have a good understanding of public dungeons, or reasonable guidlines at play parties within a group. You don't mention if this is a public club somewhere, or a groups dungeon. If it is taking place at a groups private function then shame on them for not being more helpful to a new person. If it is a public club then the structure is probably completely different.

First of all, the Dungon Master is failing to keep order to a degree. you should be told exactly what it is that you are doing and offered suggestions for correcting or modifying your actions.

The 'group' in general could probably be a bit more helpful and show new people the ropes so to speak. Are there a set of posted or written rules and guidlines that have been made available to you? The examples of wrong doing that you mentioned are wrong to do across the board....BUT if you are brand new and get involved with a group it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that you know the Group / Dungeon rules at the very least.

As far as the rest goes........knowing what is proper or offensive, talk to someone you know and have some respect for, or ask the Dungeon Master for names of possible mentors or trainers. i dont know if you are a submissive or slave or if you are into the S&M play only these things would make a bit of a difference i am sure if it is a public club then that may not be the place to ask for such information.

Some may disagree with me but, i do feel it is not only appropriate but proper for a Dominant in the group, especially one making a complaint to address you in a respectful and informative way, or at the very least allow His submissive to speak with you. If it is people at a public club not D/s or M/s then they should also just be able to speak up. Complaining about something or someone to another person when you have not addressed your own problem or concerns is not the way to go, complain after you have tried to take care of something yourself and have not gotten any positive results.

flirt

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 13

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 7/2/2005 4:06:39 PM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

I wouldnt bother going to this place again. I think youre being treated terribly. Find another place to have fun-these people are really (INHO) unpleasant. You cant be expected to learn if no-one can be bothered to spend time with you. GET OUT of that place fast. Dont go back.

HalloweenWhite.

(in reply to dovemagic)

Post #: 14

RE: correction and a "free" sub - 7/2/2005 8:46:40 PM

terah

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/17/2004
Status: offline

If there is no one to give you advice on protocol in that dungeon then the DM failed in their task. If you have no clue about basic social skills NOW is the time to get informed. Maybe I am out of line but it seems you rather make people responsible for your action when they clearly had no inclination to do so, they treated you as an adult to monitor yourself. If you feel that you don't have the skills to behave properly maybe you can buddy up with a nother sub who has more experience and not go to a dungeon until you have gained more knowledge.

< Message edited by terah -- 7/2/2005 8:48:53 PM >

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)

Post #: 15

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