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RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:07:01 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
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Galileo was arrested (did he recant or was he killed, I forget off the top of my head) far different than not being paid, and having to put your ideas in the marketplace of thought. Indeed I do not want my tax dollars supporting a radical, un academic "academic", technically in this case mine don't the People of Colorados do, And I support their right to choose, what gets taught in a state funded university. Alumbro, do you suppor the right of Flat Earthers, Holocoust Deniers, Elvis Livesers, ect to get state funding to spread thier ideas? If not you also only want to support certain points of view, right?

You can pay any teacher you want to educate your kid, Alumbro, I have no problem at all with you (or anyone ) choosing to support Ward Churchill or anyone

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 21

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:07:55 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

recanted (twice) but he was big buddies with the pope or he would have expected the spanish inquisition

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/25/2007 12:09:20 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 22

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:12:56 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Galileo was arrested (did he recant or was he killed, I forget off the top of my head) far different than not being paid, and having to put your ideas in the marketplace of thought. Indeed I do not want my tax dollars supporting a radical, un academic "academic", technically in this case mine don't the People of Colorados do, And I support their right to choose, what gets taught in a state funded university. Alumbro, do you suppor the right of Flat Earthers, Holocoust Deniers, Elvis Livesers, ect to get state funding to spread thier ideas? If not you also only want to support certain points of view, right?

You can pay any teacher you want to educate your kid, Alumbro, I have no problem at all with you (or anyone ) choosing to support Ward Churchill or anyone

And that is exactly the point... the University of Colorado chose Ward Churchill because his offensive whacko ideas were exactly what they wanted your kids to be learning...

They knew good and well what sort of academic he was, and hired him anyway, because his well known rants served their purposes.
Then after tacit approval of his 9/11 paper for 4 years, they suddenly decided he shouldn't be allowed to spew his bile at their school?

Give me a break.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 23

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:15:14 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

Nope owner, If you bothered to look over the Churchill site I posted you would see that he is doing Public speeches with the ACLU. They are appearing together. Because of what he is saying. Yes the ACLU does take some cases like you cited (mainly so that people like you can cite them), but they do not stand up for religous speech, they try to silence it. I guess you are pretending that the ACLU is not a political orginization and on the Left. If you want to pretend that, ok.

I guess you are ducking on the Chomsky point. I suppose he doesn't speak for a wing of the left either. Again Left does not = Democrat.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

I like this quote a lot also, though I wonder why you want to supress speech with the "fairness doctrine", and the Mc cain/ Feingold limits on advertising 30 days before an election?

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 24

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:16:55 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Hey, maybe Chomsky and Churchill should team up and come out with a new line of Tin Foil Hats!
Churchill is nothing more than a pathological liar and a common criminal.
And, he's stupid!
Did he think that he could copy a painting and claim the work as his own and *not* get caught??
Criminals many times try to cloak themselves in the respectability of institutions of higher learning, churches etc.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 25

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:21:16 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

Why exactly are you demanding Bile spewers on Campus Alumbro? I simply do disagree with the idea that once you get a Gov job it is yours forever, and you have a "right" to it.

I seem to remeber this has been a big deal since his book came out, several years ago.

Ward has not been silenced in anyway. He has gotten publicity money can't buy. His ideas will get to a larger audience. He will sell more books. The ACLU promotes him at speaking tours. I must have missed when the ACLU paid for Ollie North or the Illinois Nazis to speak...

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 26

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 12:56:17 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Why exactly are you demanding Bile spewers on Campus Alumbro? I simply do disagree with the idea that once you get a Gov job it is yours forever, and you have a "right" to it.

I seem to remeber this has been a big deal since his book came out, several years ago.

Ward has not been silenced in anyway. He has gotten publicity money can't buy. His ideas will get to a larger audience. He will sell more books. The ACLU promotes him at speaking tours. I must have missed when the ACLU paid for Ollie North or the Illinois Nazis to speak...

Can you imagine being out on a first date with a woman having dinner at a nice restaurant and she says; "Have you read the new Ward ("Tonto") Churchill book?"
"Excuse me, I need to use the Gents'."
I'd be out of that place faster than Ted Kennedy skipping out on a bar tab!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 27

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 1:08:58 PM

Aubre

Posts: 478
Joined: 12/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Why exactly are you demanding Bile spewers on Campus Alumbro? I simply do disagree with the idea that once you get a Gov job it is yours forever, and you have a "right" to it.

I seem to remeber this has been a big deal since his book came out, several years ago.

Ward has not been silenced in anyway. He has gotten publicity money can't buy. His ideas will get to a larger audience. He will sell more books. The ACLU promotes him at speaking tours. I must have missed when the ACLU paid for Ollie North or the Illinois Nazis to speak...

Can you imagine being out on a first date with a woman having dinner at a nice restaurant and she says; "Have you read the new Ward ("Tonto") Churchill book?"
"Excuse me, I need to use the Gents'."
I'd be out of that place faster than Ted Kennedy skipping out on a bar tab!

I'd say, "No but I did wipe my ass with it."

People think it was about his 9/11 comment but really that had very little to do with why he was dismissed, it was academic conduct in nature.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 28

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 1:39:50 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, that's the official line, anyway, but it sounds a little too much like getting Al Capone on tax evasion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aubre

People think it was about his 9/11 comment but really that had very little to do with why he was dismissed, it was academic conduct in nature.

(in reply to Aubre)

Post #: 29

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 1:51:41 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
What state agency pays Ann Coulter salary and Tenure? To compare the 2 is not being realistic

Well, that's your opinion. Both said things many found repulsive about victims of 9/11. I don't have any problem comparing the two.

quote:

He has not been silenced in anyway........Not recieving State salary and Tenure is not the same as censorship, to pretend it is is an insult to the millions who have suffered actuall censorship

Again, simply your opinion. You are correct in that he was not totally silenced. However, it isn't for lack of trying. I know full well what censorship is, thank you, and here's a dictionary definition for your convenience:

Main Entry: 2censor
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing

/'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable

What Churchill said was "considered objectionable" and it was "examined in order to suppress it." Fits the definition to a "T." So, he did "suffer actual censorship," as you said. Saying it's not censorship because he was only deprived of his job and the right to speak from that particular pulpit is incorrect. In his role, he was censored and, worse yet, it was hidden behind the guise of other reasons. Cowardly, purely cowardly...................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 30

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 1:59:07 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Freedom of speech is "for everyone", or should be, but that doesn't mean the university has to employ him

Very true.

quote:

He can still say what he wants, after all. I can't to to work today and answer the phone with "what do you want, jackass?"...though I often feel like it lol

No kidding. That would be great, wouldn't it?

quote:

One thing we can agree on, is that there are those that would foam at the mouth in defense of Coulter, that are laughing at Churchill. I have very little use for either of them, to be honest

Agreed. I just find it humorous that many of the same ones who defend every hateful word that drips from Coulter's lips have such an issue with Churchill and use the excuse that he was working for a state university to defend censoring him. So working as a professor and being issued a paycheck by the state means that you have no free speech rights? Apparently so. I don't agree with what he said either, level. I just find it very trifling that it took so long to have an issue with it and that other reasons are being put forth instead when it's very obvious that censorship is taking place. The least they could do is admit it and stand behind the fact they feel it's appropriate..........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 31

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:00:57 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Must be a pretty weak position that has to silence those who offend them...which side does that apply to?

.........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 32

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:02:17 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
It is if you were being paid to talk.

Double

........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 33

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:04:16 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
They knew good and well what sort of academic he was, and hired him anyway, because his well known rants served their purposes.
Then after tacit approval of his 9/11 paper for 4 years, they suddenly decided he shouldn't be allowed to spew his bile at their school?
Give me a break.

Yessssssssss......exactly.
luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 34

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:06:34 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Well, that's the official line, anyway, but it sounds a little too much like getting Al Capone on tax evasion

Sounds exactly like it, Lordandmaster. Any port in a storm, I suppose. Whatever works.........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 7/25/2007 2:08:09 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 35

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:08:18 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Must be a pretty weak position that has to silence those who offend them...which side does that apply to?

.........luci

Luci, HELL NO, I don't want to see "Tonto" silenced!
Let's get him good and liquored up and let him give a speech!
The guy is so mentally ill it's entertaining!
Hillary Clinton should take him on the road with her as a sideshow!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 36

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:13:59 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Luci, HELL NO, I don't want to see "Tonto" silenced!
Let's get him good and liquored up and let him give a speech!
The guy is so mentally ill it's entertaining!
Hillary Clinton should take him on the road with her as a sideshow!

Hello Popeye. I've been finding you hilarious on this thread - as always

. I'm not saying he's not "mentally ill," lol, but even the mentally ill have a right to speak, no? I just happen to totally agree with Alumbrado that all this happening after so long just doesn't add up. Typical politics - when something someone says is found offensive by many, it's easier just to try to shut them up and sweep them under a rug somewhere than stand up for their right to say what they believe regardless if others agree with it. But, as has been pointed out, all this has done is bring more awareness to what he said and offer the opportunity for brief celebrity. He'll get his 15 minutes of fame and then the country will be back to obsessing over Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears

...........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 37

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 2:32:56 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Luci, HELL NO, I don't want to see "Tonto" silenced!
Let's get him good and liquored up and let him give a speech!
The guy is so mentally ill it's entertaining!
Hillary Clinton should take him on the road with her as a sideshow!

Hello Popeye. I've been finding you hilarious on this thread - as always. I'm not saying he's not "mentally ill," lol, but even the mentally ill have a right to speak, no? I just happen to totally agree with Alumbrado that all this happening after so long just doesn't add up. Typical politics - when something someone says is found offensive by many, it's easier just to try to shut them up and sweep them under a rug somewhere than stand up for their right to say what they believe regardless if others agree with it. But, as has been pointed out, all this has done is bring more awareness to what he said and offer the opportunity for brief celebrity. He'll get his 15 minutes of fame and then the country will be back to obsessing over Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears...........luci

Luci, "after all this time?"
I think the U. of Colorado went WAY out of their way to do a thourough investigation and give Tonto all the benefit of doubt!
Most people who do the things he's done aren't even given 2 weeks notice!
As for "shutting him up" I don't think the leftist Press is trying to "shut him up" more like they're trying to put some distance between themselves to avoid embarrassment!
It was funny when the Reporter and Cameraman were following him and asking about the oil painting that he copied and claimed as his own work!
He got real angry and ran into his office and slammed the door on them! He must have known he was caught then!
"Churchill", yup! Sounds like a Cherokee name to me!
People like him remind me of that Saturday Night Live skit, "Tommy Flan-Agan" "The Pathological Liar"
"Hey! I'll tell them I'm Ital,....Indian,.yeah,........ AMERICAN Indian! That's the ticket!"
"And,............I'm a famous Compos...ARTIST!"
"Yeah, I'm a PAINTER!" "Yeah, that's the ticket!"
"Nine eleven?" "Why I,...........................was in the North Tower when it went down,.....the,..................GIRL SCOUTS rescued me!"
"Yeah, that's the ticket!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/25/2007 2:45:42 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 38

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 3:29:42 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Why exactly are you demanding Bile spewers on Campus Alumbro? I simply do disagree with the idea that once you get a Gov job it is yours forever, and you have a "right" to it.

I seem to remeber this has been a big deal since his book came out, several years ago.

Ward has not been silenced in anyway. He has gotten publicity money can't buy. His ideas will get to a larger audience. He will sell more books. The ACLU promotes him at speaking tours. I must have missed when the ACLU paid for Ollie North or the Illinois Nazis to speak...

No offense, but your memory is false, plain and simple. There was no outcry over his 9/11 comments until 2005... 4 years after they were received without approbation by the very (remember 'this is why they hate us' ?) people that are now firing him.

And government paycheck does not mean that universities should be goverment indoctrination centers.
If you can't go to college, without being exposed to ideas that disturb you, you've wasted your ( or your parent) money.

We don't need a nation full of people afraid to think for themselves, and afraid of offending the wrong people. The politicians need that, not us.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 39

RE: Ward Churchill gets the boot - 7/25/2007 4:21:18 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Colorado prof fired after 9-11 remarks
By DAN ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer 34 minutes ago

The University of Colorado's governing board on Tuesday fired a professor whose essay likening some Sept. 11 victims to a Nazi leader provoked national outrage and led to an investigation of research misconduct.

Ward Churchill vowed to sue, saying "New game, new game," after the Board of Regents' 8-1 vote was announced.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070725/ap_on_re_us/embattled_professor

I went into Wikipedia and there's a picture of this Jack-Off at, "The Anarchists Bookfaire."
And the article lists "fraud", deceit," "plagerism" going back for many years.
This isn't an isolated incident, this clown's got a long history of doing this kind of stuff!
And this is just what they know about him now.
This guy's a fuckin' Arch Criminal who's been scamming the unsuspecting for years!
When you claim to be "Native American" and get a job using Affirmative Action when you're not entitled to it that's a Federal Felony.
Just because you're a big, ugly guy with a baked potato head and long black hair doesn't make you an Indian.
And now he thinks he's going to sue the U. of Colorado?
This guy's a fuckin' NUTTER!
"Hey TONTO! "
"New Game, New Game!"
"Can you say Prison Bitch?"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/25/2007 4:33:14 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 40

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