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Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 1:04:40 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		I was away from this site for about 6 months and returned to find quite a bit of bickering. As we all know, flame wars have become a part of any message board and really have gotten old by now. I'm not offering judgment on the content of anyone's (repeat...anyone's) posts. I'm simply stating what I've seen (and yes, I too have played a part in this, so I'm not casting stones).

I urge all who have been here long enough to simply refrain from responding to any message that irks them...no matter how tempting to do so. There are some people who will simply not be affected by anything anyone else says so it's totally pointless to keep trying. The best thing to do is state your position on the topic (not the author) and leave it to the other readers to decide what's valuable information. This is what they will do anyway.

anthrosub

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 1:31:22 PM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		I understand what you are asking for, and while sometimes it gets tiresome, the debate is part of the process.

Take me for example...the way I learn is to look at things from as many perspectives as I can come up with (or can get other people to put out there), debate the whole thing to death, and the position I can't find an "out" for in my mind is the one I end up taking away with me. :)

While I don't enjoy personal attacks or flaming, I very much enjoy the heated discussions that sometimes takes place. We can learn from everyone. Even a fool will drop a pearl of wisdom from time to time :)


best regards,
fate

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 1:54:50 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The best thing to do is state your position on the topic (not the author) and leave it to the other readers to decide


I agree that this is what people should do here, but I have seen much flame throwing start from someone taking legitimate criticism personally and attacking the other person. People need to develop a thicker skin if they post on here and quit reacting emotionally if not warranted.
The other thing is, some of the flame wars are pretty entertaining.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 2:42:07 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think that's the solution to the problem. The problem is not that there are too many unwanted opinions, but that people express their opinions in an aggressive and often insulting way. As long as the internet is anonymous, I doubt that any real progress is ever going to be made. Still, I think it's worthwhile to ask people not to be insulting, and I've done so in the past, even if it meant interfering in a discussion.

Asking people not to respond to posts they disagree with, on the other hand, is absurd. North Korea is a good example of a society where people are trained not to disagree.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I urge all who have been here long enough to simply refrain from responding to any message that irks them...no matter how tempting to do so.


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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 4:24:33 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		All are valid points and I actually had them in mind writing the original post. It's hard to cover all the possibilities (impossible is the better word). I guess what I mean is go ahead and disagree but as soon as the messages become attacks on you personally, then it's time to disengage. That covers a lot of instances.

The other is talking to someone who simply keeps repeating their position, gives no real indication they've thought over your point of view via constructive criticism, and includes unnecessary barbs in their reply. It's easy to spot these types but are probably the hardest to refrain from answering because the flame is embedded in the discussion of the topic. This second case is what I meant by a message that "irks" you.

Finally, maybe it's just a good idea to recognize a dead horse when you see one. Hopefully, this thread will serve as a needed wake up call to keep things on topic. Estring is right, some of them can make for good soaps.

anthrosub

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 5:56:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		You make very valid points anthro. I have stayed clear of a few people's posts because I could not say anything productive to them.

But even if I try to be little miss diplomat, which I admit I can pull off sometimes, but not always, people can still misinterpret what I'm saying. Recently, I posted an opinion in a forum which was contrary to what the majority of the people in the thread were agreeing on. I suggested something slightly controversial. The funny thing is, I wasn't targeting anyone. The "offended parties" were quick to jump all over me with insults. What can you do?

quote:

People need to develop a thicker skin if they post on here and quit reacting emotionally if not warranted.


I agree Estring. Big time. Btw, did I say how nice it is to see you hanging around these parts again Mr Smarty Pants?

- LA

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 7:12:53 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The biggest difference between now and siz month's ago is we had a whole lot of regulars with common sense.
Most of them have left for various reasons. We're left with only a few and a whole lot of new people.
I know in the past there has been bullying...even people have warned me about voicing my opinion for fear it would start a war.
Personally the fact people are actually willing to voice their opinions now...and not fear the retribution makes me happy.

There used to be people here who would cower from some. It seems nobody does that anymore.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 7:21:00 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think I remember the situation you mentioned. There have been times where the flaming goes on so long and gets so turned around that some of the flamers are attacking people who actually agree with them. You've just got to laugh.
Btw thanks for the nice thought Lady Angelika. I try to still put my two cents in when I can.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 7:27:24 PM   
fillepink


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		i take it "flaming" is attacking the writer rather than debating his/her point of view? how silly. but when i posted in defense of a girl in her 20's who had somehow become the subject matter of a thread -- also diverting people from the subject matter, which i would have enjoyed seeing commentary on -- the girl herself posted how much she enjoyed being the center of attention. *sigh*. my sense from reading the threads i have is that there are old friends who enjoy pushing one another's buttons, and it's kinda fun, watching them, cuz they are quite articulate. so far i haven't seen much in the way of honest-to-goodness bickering or ill will, but maybe i'm not reading the threads right, LOL.

ah, so what if people carry on a conversation inside a thread? so what if they kick a dead horse occassionally? so what if they hollar in all caps? it's all sort of interesting to me. we have Mods to review for racial slurs and other really nasty stuff; i say leave people alone to enjoy their way of communicating.

BTW; i want handcuffs! LOL fillepink




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fillepink -- 6/26/2005 7:28:32 PM >

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 7:40:30 PM   
quietkitten


Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		I try not to type anything I would not say to a persons face.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 7:48:01 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I try not to type anything I would not say to a persons face.


I am the same way, however I am just as outspoken as I am here in person.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 8:25:50 PM   
perfection20005


Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten

I try not to type anything I would not say to a persons face.


I totally agree with that statement!

perfection

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 8:33:30 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

I try not to type anything I would not say to a persons face.


I am the same way, however I am just as outspoken as I am here in person.



I'm exactly the same way.

- LA

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 8:34:01 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Btw thanks for the nice thought Lady Angelika. I try to still put my two cents in when I can.


Yay!

- LA

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 8:42:54 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

All are valid points and I actually had them in mind writing the original post. It's hard to cover all the possibilities (impossible is the better word). I guess what I mean is go ahead and disagree but as soon as the messages become attacks on you personally, then it's time to disengage. That covers a lot of instances.

The other is talking to someone who simply keeps repeating their position, gives no real indication they've thought over your point of view via constructive criticism, and includes unnecessary barbs in their reply. It's easy to spot these types but are probably the hardest to refrain from answering because the flame is embedded in the discussion of the topic. This second case is what I meant by a message that "irks" you.

Finally, maybe it's just a good idea to recognize a dead horse when you see one. Hopefully, this thread will serve as a needed wake up call to keep things on topic. Estring is right, some of them can make for good soaps.

anthrosub


The problem is when a person is clearly wrong, and is stating their opinion as fact -- and the facts are wrong. Or, when they spread incorrect information. Then, ego gets in the way, and instead of just admitting maybe they didn't do the proper research, they continue to fight and spread more misinformation. I'd hate to think people were reading and believing it.

Akasha

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 8:54:13 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
The problem is when a person is clearly wrong, and is stating their opinion as fact -- and the facts are wrong.


Aakasha does bring up an important point. It is important to correct misinformation. In the past, I have posted things that I thought were correct and someone posted a correction. Did I feel a little foolish for posting a misinformation? Sure. But I thanked the person for the accurate information and allowed it to be a learning moment.

But as Aakasha said, some people will never admit that they are wrong. Does that mean that we have to let them misinform the masses? No. I think that we do have a duty here to ensure that our boards makes diverse opinions available all the while ensuring that we aren't publishing falsities.

Unfortunately, far too often, people cannot admit when they are wrong and they will become very defensive, which will inevitably result in bickering.

- LA

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 9:34:28 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Unfortunately, far too often, people cannot admit when they are wrong and they will become very defensive, which will inevitably result in bickering.


True, although a lot of people who post to these board's are lacking plain old basic common sense.
What they believe is right...truly is right in their own little heads and nobody is going to change that with rock solid fact.
I don't know if it is a failure to admit they are wrong or they are just unable to learn.

Anyway, I once asked Shadediva how the world portrayed me. I respect her opinion deeply. She told me I was different because people could disagree with me...and I didn't care. I didn't need people to agree. It's just no big deal because I know who I am.

Perhaps that is a root to a lot of peoples problems. People who are insecure...or wanting glory. Whatever...they have a need to be right?
Don't know, it is merely a theory.


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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 10:25:14 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The problem is when a person is clearly wrong, and is stating their opinion as fact -- and the facts are wrong. Or, when they spread incorrect information. Then, ego gets in the way, and instead of just admitting maybe they didn't do the proper research, they continue to fight and spread more misinformation. I'd hate to think people were reading and believing it.

Akasha


AAkasha,
I completely agree with what you're saying and know exactly the situation you're talking about. Let me start by including a quote I read a long time ago.

"You can't win an argument with an ignorant person."

If a person believes he or she is right, then from their perspective (their "inner reality")...they are...even if in fact they are wrong. Everyone knows it but them and this is what's frustrating. But there's more...there's more than one ego involved and sometimes we have to bite our tongue even though we really want to post that reply; otherwise...well...you've been there and know what follows.

As far as spreading misinformation is concerned, I think we need to have a little faith in others and hope they will either already be smart enough to notice someone's bogus facts for what they are, or quickly catch on to that person's credibility by reading what others are saying to the contrary and how that person responds. In other words, let the facts speak for themselves.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 11:05:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Who determines what is "fact"? If someone believes that 2+3=4, then OK, I agree with you, they are in fact wrong. But most beliefs are more complex than that, and cannot be refuted by facts. Some people believe in God. What "facts" are you going to use to argue with them? Some people believe in one kind of political system; other people believe in another kind of political system. Those kinds of disagreements can't be resolved by appealing to "facts."

(Besides, there's some pot-calling-the-kettle-black here: The translation you have in your sig line is in fact wrong, and you yourself got mighty defensive when I tried to point that fact out to you.)

The major misapprehension, I think, is that people on here think they can (and should) try to convince each other of their opinion. That's why they get so defensive when people challenge them, and that's why they keep on arguing with people whom they're never going to convince.

Every once in a while someone has an opinion that I find interesting, and every once in a while someone even manages to convince me of their opinion. But usually that doesn't happen, and I don't think I'm more or less stubborn than the average. People are just people; they all have their own opinions; and they can get along if they drop the silly premise that everyone else has to agree with them.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

If a person believes he or she is right, then from their perspective (their "inner reality")...they are...even if in fact they are wrong. Everyone knows it but them and this is what's frustrating.


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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/26/2005 11:06:18 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fillepink
BTW; i want handcuffs! LOL fillepink

Of coure you do kinky lady.Keep posting your thoughtful replies and you'll get them very soon.

I want to keep these paddles (light brown, longer)! They look better than the pink balloon looking ones.. M





< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 6/27/2005 12:30:16 PM >

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