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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/29/2007 9:43:40 AM   
sophia37


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Do you have any young family members? bring in a kid and some string. Most kids love kittens and most kittens cant help but chase string. It costs you nothing but some amusement. Good luck, go catch the kitty or let a kid do it. Kitty needs intense love at rhe moment. 

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/29/2007 9:51:14 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Another problem!
When I put kitten food in the dish for him my other cat Bubba goes over and starts eating it shit there he goes again!

How do I keep Bubba from eating the kittens food?
He has a dish full of food but he keeps going over to the kitten's dish!


Yet a another good reason for my idea.  Remember, I'm not talkingabout putting the kitten in isolation, this is why I use an open crate of  some size. They can see each other without getting into a tussel and YOU can get some piece of mimd during this time.  It only takes about a week to get things in order.


Lotus, I would try your idea but, I CAN'T CATCH the kitten. lol
I go towards him and he bolts!
I stand up and he bolts!

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/29/2007 10:45:03 PM   
DomKen


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You need to get this kitten used to being handled. Put on a heavy long sleeved shirt and get a length of yarn or string. Go into whatever room the kitten hides in and close the door with the older cat outside. Talk quietly and don't look directly at the kitten. Sit down, on the floor preferably, and start tossing the string out and dragging it around and dangling it where the kitten can see it. It shouldn't take too long before the kitten is chasing the string. Do this for a bit so the kitten gets into it and finally drag the string in close to you. When the kitten is in close enough grab her with your free hand by the scruff of the neck, like you've seen a mother cat carry around kittens. She won't like it much and may make some rather anguished noises but hold on and put your other hand on her chest and support her weight with that hand. Now she is likely to scratch or try and bite you but a kitten isn't going to do you much damage unless she gets a finger in her jaws, so don't stick one anywhere near there. Pull her in to you body and let go off the back of her neck. Talk soothingly and pet her. Cats tend to like their ears and under their jaws to be scritched so that is something to try. If the kitten is a female scritching her at the base of the tale may be something she likes as well. You need to talk soothingly and quietly, don't raise your voice even if she does nip or scratch you, and hold her until she relaxes. If possible soothe her till she goes to sleep.

You need to keep doing that on a regular, daily, basis until she is well socialized and comes to you seeking affection or at least until she takes to rubbing up against you ankles to scent mark you. Otherwise you risk having a pet that will essentially be a feral cat.

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/29/2007 11:15:46 PM   
maybemaybenot


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popeye:

Is this kitten a feral kitty ?

                    mbmbn

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/29/2007 11:23:15 PM   
brightspot


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I think and this is OMP but, showing any aggression,which grabbing by the scruff of the neck I would consider as such is just a bad idea if you want to gain this kittens trust.
 
Trying to play with it with string is an okay idea, but I would try this after he comes out on his own and hangs with you for increments of time, but don't ever then trick him by grabbing and forcing him to stay with you. I don't care how much you try to pet and console him in the back of his mind he will only learn you can not be trusted.
 
The best thing to do is always look at things from the kitten's perspective, look at the situation he feels he has been thrown into. How would you want the people who are now around you to treat you in order to feel safe and begin to learn they are trustworthy?

I will say again and I have been an animal raiser all my life and have dealt with difficult cases. The best thing you can do is make sure the kitten has access to food, water and a litter box he can get to easily with out interference from humans or other animals and then do not make any physicals moves towards him and try not to make eye contact.

If he is in the room you are in or enters a room where you are, talk calmy and lovingly to him to let him know you know he is there but then let him be.
Be paitient and soon you will find him seeking you out more and more and remember just because you don't see him, I am sure he is watching you during his awake hours and he will want to watch you for some time before he will figure out you are not an aggressive scary person and he will then start to test you by going into your presence, first from afar and make sure you are not going to leap out and try to grab him.
 
Once he is pretty sure you are not there to "get him" he will eventually get closer and closer. Still, contain the urge to reach out for him, but always acknowledge and talk gently to him.
 
Another thing is to let him observe you and Bubba interacting, holding Bubba and playing, he will be watching whether you can see him or not and he will notice your giving Bubba things he really would like to be getting.
After some time and it may seem like a long time, especially when you are anxious to show this kitten what a good guy you are, eventually though he will be ready to take the risk to get closer to you. When he actually comes to you or rubs on you you can gently try to touch him but don't force the issue if he runs off let it go, there will come another time he will try, as long as you let him think he is free to move at his own pace, you will gain his trust.

I've done this with wild animals in my yard, I have a rabbit out there that will run everytime a friend comes by but if I am the only one out there, tending to the yard or whatever the rabbit will hang with me sometimes with-in a couple feet and lay down and fall asleep.
 
I assure you that if you let the cat make all the moves and respect his hesitancy, you will earn his trust. I bet by the time winter comes around you will have him in your bed snuggling to stay warm.
 
Missy.

< Message edited by brightspot -- 7/29/2007 11:28:15 PM >


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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 1:03:40 AM   
popeye1250


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Missy, that's pretty much what I've been doing.
I make sure he has food, fresh water and his litter box are all accessable and they are seperate from Bubba's.
But, he also eats Bubba's food and of COURSE, Bubba eats the Kitten's food!
I don't think there's anything I can do about that unless I stay awake all the time.
I noticed that he is wandering around more now and tonight him and Bubba have been interacting.
Oh, and he does like chasing the laser pointer around!
He did that for the first time tonight!
I still can't get close enough to get him to play with a string yet though.
I guess the operative word really is "patience."
I can't wait to pat him!


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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 2:05:37 AM   
brightspot


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Yay! See, progress already!
 
I believe you're on your way to showing this little guy
love and trust is there for him! 
Sure can be hard sometimes though, until he figures that
out... when you are dying to show him affection.
Hang-in.
 
Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 5:21:01 AM   
camille65


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Heya popeye, jeez am I ever enjoying your kitten stories! Talk about a guaranteed smile from the forums . You've gotten excellent advice from many here so there isn't much I can add.
About the feeding, if you can 'trap' the kitten in the laundry room with its litter box & its food that may help give it a secure place and a spot away from the Bubba food stealer.
I also agree with Kens idea of drawing the kitty close then nabbing him, I've had to do that with countless kittens over the years.
It does sound like kitten has too much room which equals a lack of security for him. I'd have him sleep in the area with the litter box too. Yes, plunking him down in the litter will help! I did that soon after feeding time. Thats another reason it is important you finally catch the lil furball

It is important to get the physical bonding done between the two of you asap.
Once kitten is nabbed and settled in your arms (calmer) make sure you gently touch the paws too. Soon you will have to begin trimming the nails, so best get him used to being handled.
I suggest you work with the kitten in the laundry area or a seperate room from Bubba cuz yeah he (Bubba) will get a bit jealous.

Please keep posting your kitten tails! They really do bring me huge smiles.

*hugs to da kitties*

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 6:02:26 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You need to get this kitten used to being handled. Put on a heavy long sleeved shirt and get a length of yarn or string. Go into whatever room the kitten hides in and close the door with the older cat outside. Talk quietly and don't look directly at the kitten. Sit down, on the floor preferably, and start tossing the string out and dragging it around and dangling it where the kitten can see it. It shouldn't take too long before the kitten is chasing the string. Do this for a bit so the kitten gets into it and finally drag the string in close to you. When the kitten is in close enough grab her with your free hand by the scruff of the neck, like you've seen a mother cat carry around kittens. She won't like it much and may make some rather anguished noises but hold on and put your other hand on her chest and support her weight with that hand. Now she is likely to scratch or try and bite you but a kitten isn't going to do you much damage unless she gets a finger in her jaws, so don't stick one anywhere near there. Pull her in to you body and let go off the back of her neck. Talk soothingly and pet her. Cats tend to like their ears and under their jaws to be scritched so that is something to try. If the kitten is a female scritching her at the base of the tale may be something she likes as well. You need to talk soothingly and quietly, don't raise your voice even if she does nip or scratch you, and hold her until she relaxes. If possible soothe her till she goes to sleep.

You need to keep doing that on a regular, daily, basis until she is well socialized and comes to you seeking affection or at least until she takes to rubbing up against you ankles to scent mark you. Otherwise you risk having a pet that will essentially be a feral cat.



thats the last thing you want to do!

Like i said in an earlier post just take your time and absolutely do not push it.  If it takes a year or two so be it.   You have more things going on there than just befriending you as you mentioned earlier with the other tom getting territorial etc.

the kit will get used to it in his own time.   see my prev post on what to do.


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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 6:03:37 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I guess the operative word really is "patience."
I can't wait to pat him!




bingo!


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 6:15:19 AM   
Alumbrado


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I'm still recommending the sock over the head... once he tires out from bumping into things, the kitten should become quite docile.









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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 6:17:23 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

I'm still recommending the sock over the head... once he tires out from bumping into things, the kitten should become quite docile.












yup and that is the last time you will close enough to him to pull that stunt again


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 6:56:09 AM   
DomKen


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And people wonder why their cats won't be handled and chores like trimming claws and giving medicine are so hard.

Cats need to be "socialized." Which is a fancy way of saying they ned to learn that people are not going to eat them and that coming close to people is a positive experience. To have this truly sink in and result in a good house cat the kitten needs to be handled by a person quite a lot from about 5 weeks old to about 2 or 3 months of age. With that oppotunity apparently lost in this case and the kitten acting like it is feral my approach is, while some may view it as negative, about the only choice you have to getting the kitten to a point where it will be willing to be handled which is essentiasl for grooming, trimming nails and trips to the vet.

As to the kitten remembering the whole thing as negative, That is why you spend much more time with the kitten stroking and scritching the kitten compared to how long it spends struggling. Being grabbed by the nape of the neck isn't painful for the kitten and does no harm if the not done for too long or grabbed too tightly. The whole point is for the kitten to learn that being handled is a pleasureable experience which no amount of patient waiting for the kitten to come to you won't do since the kitten isn't ever going to come to you and let itself be handled.

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 7:00:38 AM   
camille65


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I really do agree with this advice DomKen. The longer the kitty goes left unhandled, the harder it will be in the future.
Once the kitten is being held and calmed then things will go much easier for all involved.
BTW nice description on how to physically hold him to lessen scratches and bites.
Oh, popeye I just remembered a site I used for my dog. There is a sister site for kitties and I 'think' it was cat.com. I know the dog one is dog.com and there should be a link there.
Yay for kittens!

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 7:52:53 AM   
Alumbrado


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Geeezz.....

Am I the only one who understands how cats think? 

Hell, I'll even buy the sock... y'all are making this whole thing way too complicated.

Sock  +   Head   =  Amused and happy kitten.


How hard is that?.. it probably won't even do any permanent damage... or it  might even slow him down a bit.

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 8:16:31 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And people wonder why their cats won't be handled and chores like trimming claws and giving medicine are so hard.

Cats need to be "socialized." Which is a fancy way of saying they ned to learn that people are not going to eat them and that coming close to people is a positive experience. To have this truly sink in and result in a good house cat the kitten needs to be handled by a person quite a lot from about 5 weeks old to about 2 or 3 months of age. With that oppotunity apparently lost in this case and the kitten acting like it is feral my approach is, while some may view it as negative, about the only choice you have to getting the kitten to a point where it will be willing to be handled which is essentiasl for grooming, trimming nails and trips to the vet.

As to the kitten remembering the whole thing as negative, That is why you spend much more time with the kitten stroking and scritching the kitten compared to how long it spends struggling. Being grabbed by the nape of the neck isn't painful for the kitten and does no harm if the not done for too long or grabbed too tightly. The whole point is for the kitten to learn that being handled is a pleasureable experience which no amount of patient waiting for the kitten to come to you won't do since the kitten isn't ever going to come to you and let itself be handled.




fine but not by force as you have suggested.

i would have liked to see you do that with the cat i tamed from the wild.  she would have tore your face off.  that and it would be the last time you ever got near her.  when i was done i could do claw trimming whatever, however i was the only one in the world who could do it, unless of course someone else wanted to use force.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 8:18:51 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Geeezz.....

Am I the only one who understands how cats think? 

Hell, I'll even buy the sock... y'all are making this whole thing way too complicated.

Sock  +   Head   =  Amused and happy kitten.


How hard is that?.. it probably won't even do any permanent damage... or it  might even slow him down a bit.


more simple than leave the animal to come to you on its its own?  cats love those who do not do permanent damage. probably.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 8:25:32 AM   
stockingluvr54


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Good luck with the new kitty....he'll come around eventually. I'm just about over the loss of my Kitty and recently "put the word out" that I'll be looking for another pair of kitties around Sept!!!! Can't wait...they are cool creatures!

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 8:32:45 AM   
thelunabird


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When my cat hid under the bed when i first got her i used to sleep next to her just out side of the bed with my hand under the it. eventually she came out... maybe it was because of that..

luna

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RE: New Kitten Problem. - 7/30/2007 9:18:40 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And people wonder why their cats won't be handled and chores like trimming claws and giving medicine are so hard.

Cats need to be "socialized." Which is a fancy way of saying they ned to learn that people are not going to eat them and that coming close to people is a positive experience. To have this truly sink in and result in a good house cat the kitten needs to be handled by a person quite a lot from about 5 weeks old to about 2 or 3 months of age. With that oppotunity apparently lost in this case and the kitten acting like it is feral my approach is, while some may view it as negative, about the only choice you have to getting the kitten to a point where it will be willing to be handled which is essentiasl for grooming, trimming nails and trips to the vet.

As to the kitten remembering the whole thing as negative, That is why you spend much more time with the kitten stroking and scritching the kitten compared to how long it spends struggling. Being grabbed by the nape of the neck isn't painful for the kitten and does no harm if the not done for too long or grabbed too tightly. The whole point is for the kitten to learn that being handled is a pleasureable experience which no amount of patient waiting for the kitten to come to you won't do since the kitten isn't ever going to come to you and let itself be handled.




fine but not by force as you have suggested.

i would have liked to see you do that with the cat i tamed from the wild.  she would have tore your face off.  that and it would be the last time you ever got near her.  when i was done i could do claw trimming whatever, however i was the only one in the world who could do it, unless of course someone else wanted to use force.


I've done the same basic thing with a full grown feral Tom. Since they won't chase string without pouncing I resorted to a fishing rod cat toy and catnip but same idea. Any cat can be picked up by the scruff and they all go into that kitten being carried by mama pose so it isn't too hard to handle. With a full grown feral it was a lot harder to gain and keep physical control but all cats are suckers for having their sensual spots scritched so once I had him pressed up against me I was able to hold him and calm him down.

Of course you can't fully socialize a full grown feral cat so after a month or so I got a fairly aloof house guest rather than a good pet. I knew he wasn't long for the world since he had both FIV and feline leukemia, which is why the no kill shelter couldn't keep him, but being indoors he didn't spread either virus and he didn't starve once he got too sick to hunt.

But in this case we're not talking about a full grown feral but a 3 month old kitten that wasn't socialized properly by the mother cat's owner. I'm presently raising a new kitten myself, one that I had access to since birth and fully socialized, and she has been to the groomer and vet without significant upset and she was timid in my apartment for only a couple of days once I brought her home. My only issue with her is the pre dawn sprints she runs most days... well that and the prodigous amount of hair she sheds.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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