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RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 4:19:03 PM   
OrrisKitten


Posts: 59
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		My Dom and I have been using the usual 'yellow' and 'red' (Or in the case of being gagged, hitting the side of the bed once or twice respectively) In our time together I have used red 2 times, both of which were times that I was in a different state of mind than I normally am (One being after a night of partying and being in a different place that was not fully private, the other being on a day I was feeling the effects of starting a new birth control pill after not being on any for 3 months) And both times it was respected as much as it could be.

The first time I do not regret. The second time I used it all play stopped and I instantly felt bad about it. Do I regret it? Not in the least. As soon as it was used my Dom took the gag out and asked me what was wrong and helped me calm down. Generally he can tell when I am reaching my limits and does slow down, preventing me from ever needing to use it, but that night I was having trouble reading my own emotions, making it harder for him to read them. We talked and agreed that it was something that we both knew I could handle, but that it would be done at a different time.

The first time it was used, he did not hear it. The night in general was just a really bad one, I did not get hurt, but was uncomfortable and mentally overwhelmed, pulled away and the play stopped. We discussed it in detail the next morning and that communication really helped to smooth things over. He made it very clear that he did not hear me say my safeword and was pretty devistated that I had to use it and he could not hear it. I learned my lesson, if a safe word needs to be used, make sure it is heard! From then on I have never been ashamed to know that if i need to communicate any point that I should not, and will not be ashamed to scream it out loud to make sure my Dom hears me.

The yellow safe word is usually the thing we play around with more, it is much more fluid and that is the one thing that my Dom will go past. For us, it basically means that 'This level is okay... if it goes further I may have to use my safe word' and from that he decides if he will stay at the same level of whatever it may be, or if he will try to go past it.

(in reply to rob425)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 4:20:41 PM   
planomaid


Posts: 77
Joined: 10/4/2004
Status: offline 		I don't use them.  However, were I to use them, and they were ignored, then the relationship would most likely end with that top/dominant.  If you choose to have a safeword, its there for a reason.  The top does not get to pick and choose when they want to listen to it.  Well, maybe once they do.  Otherwise why would you have one?

In your scenario, the better thing for them to have done would have been for them to know how close you are to using your safeword by the communication your body is telling them.  If the goal were to go past a point where you had been before, they should work with you mentally, to encourage you to get past that point, just a little, a little more.. and then stopped.  There's plenty of time to continue working on exploring your limits, and your top is not only your guide, but your coach.  They need to encourage you to take that one last flogger strike or whatever it is that you are doing.  In the ideal setting you, as the submissive, want to please them more than your body or your psyche can take. Your desire to please outweighs anything else.  And your top should be very pleased that they can get you to that state - at the same time noting the limits of what you can do and not taking you past them until you are capable.

In some ways the top has the hard part, they have to know how far you can go - at that specific point in time.  Sometimes its just not there, and they shouldn't take it personal if you call it quits.  Locally we had a domme and sub who like to use the bullwhip (yeah, the 12ft variety one).  She was very good with a whip too, knew how to use it properly.  She would string him up by his ankles in the dungeon and whip him.  Sometimes he would wear her out.  Other times he called stop after a couple of lashes.  She never took it personally, it just wasn't happening for him. Could she have pushed him further on those days?  Sure, but she didn't, and that was the right thing to do.  Alternately, on the days he was in the zone, she could have whipped him bloody, but she stopped, because his body (and her arm) were at their limits.


(in reply to DrPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 4:37:51 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		For me, a safeword means that we pause the activity to see what's wrong. Once that has been established, we may or may not proceed. Use of a safeword does not automatically mean it's all over, it's a signal that something needs attention. After the problem has been assessed, then we often proceed, but by mutual consent.

:))
LH

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(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 4:49:56 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly


quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure

Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? 


Generally I respect limits; however, if I'm inclined to push past them, I would tell him beforehand.

I agree with you limits most likely will be pushed and in my opinion should be...but the OP said push past SAFEWORD huge difference.


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**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 4:57:57 PM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		With a new partner or in playing with someone I have never played with before, I want them to use their safeword if they feel the need.  I will not push anyone elses submissive, if I am playing with them.  For me, I feel that pushing past limits should be up to the person who they belong to.

Usually, with mine, I prefer direct communication, especially, as I really get to know someone.  My hand is numb, is preferable to me than hearing them just say stop.  Of course, there are times, if they are gagged, I like the drop the object form of safeword, but I am going to stop & find out what is going on with them.

Often, when someone is in their subspace, I find the ones I have played with, are hesitant to use their safeword.  While I don't ask them if they are alright everytime I do something to them, I do watch very closely.  I want to know if they are in trouble, what they are feeling, & why.  Paying attention to body language is critical.

The agreement of a safeword:  If it is used, the play stops immediately.  It would be a violation of trust. They obviously need to stop, & by the same token, I need to know what is going on. 

There are though, some people who are inclined to abuse their safeword.  If I start to feeling, that is what they are doing, more than likely, if they continue to abuse it, I would still respect their safeword to stop, but eventually, I would release the person because I wasn't get what I needed from the relationship.



(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 5:10:07 PM   
witchywoman313


Posts: 48
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline 		My safe word/code word system
Green-good    Yellow-I"m aproaching my limit or I have something Important I need your full attention for
Red-Stop  
 
Mercy-my panic safeword  It was the first ever safeword that I learned I only still use it when I'm in deep space not really thinking and I really cant take anymore AT ALL

Dont be a fucking Idiot- in honor of my good friend Wolfie who had a pin saying "dont be a fucking Idiot should be a safeword.   Ive never actualy used this one rest assured if I ever do I wont be playing with that person again EVER.  My Master knows of this and would imediatly come to my deffence if I ever uttered these words while playing with someone else.

I demand safe words and if  gaged safe codes to be used with me whether I"m topping or bottoming becouse I promised one of my earliest Masters I always would use them.  The Red Yellow Green method is a good quick and easy way to check in with a submissive when their body language is saying things you dont expect.  I also sink into subspace durring heavy play and often what feels great can turn to NOT fun with only a few more ounces of pressure with a whip or one degrading comment that hit wrong ( I love humiliation play)  Do I think other people who chose not to use safewords arent True BDSMers? No I dont but, If I ever made friends with someone who didnt use them, or at least have one in place for real emergencies. I would try my best to convince them to adopt the practice, and I would never play with a Top or Master who told me I couldnt have at least an emergency OMG safeword.   I even used a safeword online once. . . right before I hit the Iggy button.  I defy anyone to tell me I'm less of a submissive for useing safewords.  I know Some definitions of slave prohibit the use of safewords but I dont consider myself a slave anyway.  I feel that the use of safewords is one of the things that helps define BDSM as Safe Sane and Consentual.
Just some more of my rambaling thoughts for what its worth.
Witchywoman313

(in reply to LadyHeart)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 6:16:19 PM   
RealDom69


Posts: 64
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I agree with you limits most likely will be pushed and in my opinion should be...but the OP said push past SAFEWORD huge difference.


I've said this before, but I'll continue to say it *smiles*  I REALLY don't like the way people blurr communications around limits. As far as I am concerned, a limit is something I do not have a submissive's consent to do. If I do it without that permission, then it's assault, simple. Forget "hard limits" and "soft limits" - anything that is not a limit is a strong dislike. So for me, the whole concept of "pushing a limit" is nonsensical, and I've seen many a play relationship crash and burn over this very confusion. Once trust is gone, it's gone. Just my opinion, based on experience and observation, and picking up other people's pieces....

:))
LH
DRAT!  That's come up under my husband's nic - CM must be having a fit today, grrrr....  LH

< Message edited by RealDom69 -- 7/26/2007 6:17:38 PM >

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(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/26/2007 7:45:17 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

"pushing a limit" is nonsensical,

I respect your view...but i personally want my Master to push my limits....but thats just me...


_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to RealDom69)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/27/2007 6:46:08 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure

Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? 


No.  Why would you put something in place,  in hopes that it would be respected, and then want to see it violated?
 
quote:
From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. 


Ok, but now that you've established that this is acceptable, how do you differentiate that and a possibility of when it might not be all right, such as in the case of a severe injury?  Is the Dominant supposed to guess which time the safeword is legitimate or not?
 
quote:
This usually happened in two different ways.  First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out.  For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor.  One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought.  Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times.  The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. 


This I see as a little different.  Just from the way it is described, the real safeword was the hairbrush hitting the floor.  The verbal communication was more of the slow word variety. 
 
quote:
Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it.  Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't.


Personally, I'm glad you're still around to talk about it.
quote:


I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. 
Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword?
What are some other ways to push past them?


I have to make My comments from My own perspective.  Because I do engage in casual play, I want safewords to be in place.  There is no guarentee that I am going to be able to perfectly read someone I'm playing with for the first time.  When I read some of the other responses from some who don't use safewords, I have to take into account that both (Mercnbeth and AAkasha) are in committed long term relationships and have more to draw on as far as reading their partners.  This is an advantage that you don't have in casual play.  The lack of it only reaffirms My desires to have the safe/slow words secure.  (Some would say, in that case, give up the casual play, but then I wouldn't be playing at all.  No fun there.)
 
I don't think it's ever ok to ignore a safeword.  I want the people I play with to be secure in the fact that We are going to play within the bounderies that We've set and the terms We've agreed to.  I want them to trust Me that they will be respected and a mutually beneficial experience will be had.
 
Helping someone to push past their limits is another subject entirely.

(in reply to DrPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/29/2007 3:21:38 PM   
NovelApproach


Posts: 150
Joined: 3/25/2007
Status: offline 		I personally use the "stoplight" safewords with my subs.  Red for "I need you to stop NOW," yellow for "I'm having a hard time and might need you to stop soon," and green for "scratch that, keep going" or "I'm okay."  My current sub has never used his safeword except to tell me "yellow" or "green" if I ask how he's doing.  Even though we've never had to put a stop to a scene and I don't anticipate that we ever will, Kitty and I think its important to have our safewords anyway.  For one, it means he can scream and cry and protest because it makes him feel more vulnerable (and more excited) without worrying that I'll stop the scene, and it also means that there are no hard feelings if one of us in uncomfortable with something the other wants to do. 

Also, being that he and I are both psychology majors, we know that clinical studies have proven that people are generally more able to take pain and other forms of unpleasantness if they have control over a safeguard, even if they never use it.  It makes it easier to think "I think I can take a little more before I ask her to stop." 

Short answer:  I would never keep going if Kitty "called red," and I would never allow him to play with someone I didn't trust to respect his safeword.  Safeword is not to be used lightly, and is never to be taken lightly.



(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/29/2007 9:28:33 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		I'd rather just not have a safeword.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to DrPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/29/2007 9:36:43 PM   
DrPleasure


Posts: 74
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline 		a lot of good answers here.  thanks!

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Pushing Past Safewords - 7/29/2007 11:04:40 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I think it is relevant to this discussion to make a distinction between a limit and a safeword. To me, the OP suggests more a question of trying to go past limits, which is fair enough as long as a safeword is respected. To ignore a safeword I find to not be fair.

Personally, I don't regularly use safewords and instead rely on regular communication. And I think it could be hot to give up a safeword and rely on only begging and pleading, and the judgment of the dominant. Still, I think safewords carry value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Don't use safewords and this won't be a problem. I think safewords are highly overrated and just a protocol people like to get all excited about using because they think it makes them twoo bdsmers.

I use good old fashioned communication and knowing my partner to judge when it's safe to stop or keep going.  I am not going to rely on a silly codeword or whole series of codewords when clear communication cuts down the risk of misinterpretting something.  Besides, with all the hoopla about safewords, many subs are afraid to use them because they think it makes them appear weak.   


I agree that communication and body language are important for determining when to stop. However, I disagree with other points.

The essence of the question is whether it is acceptable to ignore a request to stop a scene, which is relevant whether one uses a safeword or regular communication.

Reading body language comes with experience and familiarity with a submissive. Before the two are had, a safeword can be useful.

I don't think a safeword is a useless protocol that one uses to feign trueness. I don't think it replaces communication but instead effects communication. Similar to terminology specific to any given field, safewords are terminology specific to BDSM that quickly or succintly convey an idea.

Within safewords, I favor the red, yellow, green convention (versus a safeword like pineapple) because of its intuitive and universal meaning.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 33
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