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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

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We don't do that to feel MASCULINE.  When we get dressed in the morning, we first and foremost put on what looks good and what point we may want to get across that day.  CD'ers do it to feel and look feminine.

Oh give me a break ... you can't tell me you've never put on a frigging dress or slipped on a skirt and the point you wanted to get across that day was *I HAVE TITS & ARSE* ... 

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ORIGINAL: tobeshi

. I am asking how a femdom is humiliating a sub in creating him (transforming, dressing etc.) in her own image.The only way I understand  it is if she has so little self respect and  views the male as being superior ( higher) than herself. In that making him appear feminine, she is degrading (lowering) him. How does making a sub look like herself  humilate him unless in her mind she is of a lower stature?

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ORIGINAL: tobeshi

Thank-you. In that instance it would make some sense....making anyone wear studda-bubba clothes would do it too.
I am curious if it is viewed as the act of dressing that is thought to be humilating or as was the case with me, if some of the acts that were demanded of me that I did while dress was the humilation...or all of it?
I guess my case was different in that I accepted the feminization and grew to completely enjoy and look forward to it. It was contineously escalated and the only thing I would have changed would have been to be able to completely do it more than a couple times a month. However, I was grateful for anytime I got. The rest of the time it was  still "service with a smile".

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Ahh, here we go: sensitive CDs v. the woman who loathe them. This is a common roundabout.

You poignantly said, "They (CDs) very much focus all their sexual interest on themselves rather than on another person; where a man would normally put his sexual interest in the look and feel of a woman, the crossdresser would prefer to put his sexual interest in his own image as a woman rather than in the actual female."

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Your behavioral observation may be true, but it doesn't pin point any causation. The problem with CDs is that they operate in a climate of hostility, derision, and humiliation --- along with the whole awkwardness of the male form in female clothing. So by default these men go inward --- because there's nowhere else outward to go. How would men be if they lived in a different general climate? Would they be as inward, "self absorbed," and the rest?

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I know it wouldn't bother me in the least to see a woman outfitted as a male butler and forced to behave as an understated, subserviant male. The image just strikes me as incredibly spankable, but women already cross dress everyday with the men about them loving it. I gotta say, I just love masculinized women --- which is not to say in any way that I confuse them with men.

Anyway, nice post.

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ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Ahh, here we go: sensitive CDs v. the woman who loathe them. This is a common roundabout.

You poignantly said, "They (CDs) very much focus all their sexual interest on themselves rather than on another person; where a man would normally put his sexual interest in the look and feel of a woman, the crossdresser would prefer to put his sexual interest in his own image as a woman rather than in the actual female."

I'm not going to speak for all dominas but I don't think it is the cross dressing per se that bothers us. It is the fact that most that crossdress can't be honest enough with us OR themselves to actually call their crossdressing a fetish or a preexisting proclivity that they have. Instead, they choose to insult our intelligence by saying things like: "I will be your sissy maid slut and do whatever you want." or "I will dress up for you and your amusment." It is off putting for most people who identify as dominant for someone to TELL you just exactly how they will be serving you. . .as if I'm just here to sit down and be told how I'm going to be served and I'm gonna like it. C'mon, quit playing like I'm brand new. Wearing stockings, heels, and a mini skirt unsolicited has absolutely nothing to do with servitude. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining.

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Your behavioral observation may be true, but it doesn't pin point any causation. The problem with CDs is that they operate in a climate of hostility, derision, and humiliation --- along with the whole awkwardness of the male form in female clothing. So by default these men go inward --- because there's nowhere else outward to go. How would men be if they lived in a different general climate? Would they be as inward, "self absorbed," and the rest?

Not all CDs operate in a climate of hostility. . .etc. I, for one, am tired of it being "packaged" as part of "submission and servitude" as the CD tries to pass it under my bullshit radar. My partner CDs. . .I've even bought him women's items. He admits he is a fetishist and that he likes the look and feel of female clothing. I can live with that and indulge him because he doesn't stick riders on it. . .and he's honest. If he has tried to pass it off as anything other than a fetish i.e. that he is doing it to make me happy, or he is doing it as some kind of service to me. . .I'd totally have reacted differently.

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I know it wouldn't bother me in the least to see a woman outfitted as a male butler and forced to behave as an understated, subserviant male. The image just strikes me as incredibly spankable, but women already cross dress everyday with the men about them loving it. I gotta say, I just love masculinized women --- which is not to say in any way that I confuse them with men.

Anyway, nice post.

There is a problem with the above passage. . .unless we are talking about bois and butch dykes etc. . .women aren't dressing in "male" (I put it in quotes because it inherently isn't male) clothing to be masculine. Women's pants are cut for a woman's body. If they *were" indeed men's clothing. . .you'd see a ton of men wearing low-rise hip hugging jeans. Or guys wearing princess cut, tailored business suits with darts in the front to accomodate boobs. These are garments that were designed for women to accentuate a woman's figure. Did the women in Ally McBeal wearing business micro mini power suits look masculine? I think not.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I don't really buy your argument that women's clothes, being cut for them, make the fashion female. That's bullshit. By the same logic a pair of size 18 heels would be men's shoes because they are produced for a man's foot.

A woman can dress like a construction worker, athlete, policeman, fireman, soldier, etc. No one bats an eye. A woman can wear a man's suit and be trendy. On the other hand, a man in a skirt is a fag, sissy, wimp, or freakshow --- or in some venues an entertaining transvestite. Society doesn't deal him the card of being the meter-maid.

So, your argument on this front fails, as I see it.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I don't want to argue with your experiences, but what your experiences say to me is: the guys are still trying (somehow) to sell their CDing to you. They do this b/c women are simply not drawn to them as CDs.

Maybe they are poor salesmen, maybe they cannot back up what they say, maybe they don't understand their audience very well --- that could all be true, true, and more true.

But, these guys are on their own to figure it out, swimming against the current. What they see clearly, very clearly, is that there's no real demand for them or what they do. Not only that, there's a fair amount of shame in it, and as you can see from this rather modest thread, rejection.

I don't really buy your argument that women's clothes, being cut for them, make the fashion female. That's bullshit. By the same logic a pair of size 18 heels would be men's shoes because they are produced for a man's foot.

A woman can dress like a construction worker, athlete, policeman, fireman, soldier, etc. No one bats an eye. A woman can wear a man's suit and be trendy. On the other hand, a man in a skirt is a fag, sissy, wimp, or freakshow --- or in some venues an entertaining transvestite. Society doesn't deal him the card of being the meter-maid.

So, your argument on this front fails, as I see it.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Guys that wear skirts, fishtnets and makeup and can pull it off are embraced and considered hot in the goth community. The difference is that they aren't dressing that way to serve a self indulgent fantasy or have a woman cater to it (for the most part), they are dressing because they enjoy it.  It's about the attitude and how he carries it.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I don't want to argue with your experiences, but what your experiences say to me is: the guys are still trying (somehow) to sell their CDing to you. They do this b/c women are simply not drawn to them as CDs.

Maybe they are poor salesmen, maybe they cannot back up what they say, maybe they don't understand their audience very well --- that could all be true, true, and more true.

But, these guys are on their own to figure it out, swimming against the current. What they see clearly, very clearly, is that there's no real demand for them or what they do. Not only that, there's a fair amount of shame in it, and as you can see from this rather modest thread, rejection.

I don't really buy your argument that women's clothes, being cut for them, make the fashion female. That's bullshit. By the same logic a pair of size 18 heels would be men's shoes because they are produced for a man's foot.

A woman can dress like a construction worker, athlete, policeman, fireman, soldier, etc. No one bats an eye. A woman can wear a man's suit and be trendy. On the other hand, a man in a skirt is a fag, sissy, wimp, or freakshow --- or in some venues an entertaining transvestite. Society doesn't deal him the card of being the meter-maid.

So, your argument on this front fails, as I see it.