Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?)


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 1:49:57 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline 		question... whatever happened to truly non-sexual bdsm or Ds relationships?

i fear that there is a horrible double-standard (and yes, i'm about to start using generalities) where  many female Dominants are strictly "no sex" with their subbie boys, while so many male Dominants seek to use their subbie girls as fuck holes and sex slaves, only their to service them

i just find it odd, i know that, in general, women do have as much (if not more) sexual desire as men; so, why are so many men so incapable (or at least choose not to) of controlling those urges?

for example, when i started in the community (some ten or so years ago); i had thought it was a standard practice, that beyond maybe a feeling-out period with a new submissive (to be sure of a physical compatibility) a "training" period begins where there is no overtly sexual (or play) contact between the Dominant and submissive... this is usually due to the highly emotional  link between submissives and the sex act, and more specifically with women; and so that a relationship is established to build the emotional and spiritual bonds strongly between the two before the strain that sex and scene often brings about

for many female Dominants, it is also to have their male sub to prove that he's not in it for kinky sex, but for something deeper and more significant... and many are the female Dominants who simply will not have sexual interaction with their subs

but in speaking with females with male Dominants or Masters, i often hear shock and surprise at such a practice; as quite often is the sexual interplay between her and her Dominant in effect rather quickly and often, sometimes subsuming other aspects of the relationship and i have rarely (if at all( heard of a hetero male Dominant who chooses never to practice sexual  activities with  the  females under his power

____________________________

this is for male and female Dominants, why the dichotomy?  why (in hetero relations) is sex so often a part of relationship with a female submissive, while often being forbidden with the male?

female Doms who have no sex with their subs, what is the reason?

male Doms, would you consider a ltr with a submissive female and not have sex as part of her service?

all, what do you think of having a "training period" of at least a few months, where there is no sexual or bdsm activity; where you focus on other parts of the Ds relationship, perhaps until collaring?

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 1:55:59 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		I don't have sex with my slaves because that is what my husband and I agreed to.  If I do ever have sex with my slave it will be under specifics.  Time without sex is great.  I have no desire to even get intimate right off the bat.  Please note intimacy and sex are two different animals.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 2:02:04 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		they're still around, though not as many post on forums i suppose; i know many relationships that are just that way.

(in reply to earthycouple)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 2:02:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
question... whatever happened to truly non-sexual bdsm or Ds relationships?

I think they've always been fairly rare and are still so.
quote:


i fear that there is a horrible double-standard (and yes, i'm about to start using generalities) where  many female Dominants are strictly "no sex" with their subbie boys, while so many male Dominants seek to use their subbie girls as fuck holes and sex slaves, only their to service them

I don't think it's a double standard- males are free to choose sexual relationships and females are free to choose non sexual realtionships.  I think it's more a stereotype with some pressure to it.
quote:


i just find it odd, i know that, in general, women do have as much (if not more) sexual desire as men; so, why are so many men so incapable (or at least choose not to) of controlling those urges?

A)  Social conditioning
B)  Women allow it/encourage it
quote:


for example, when i started in the community (some ten or so years ago); i had thought it was a standard practice, that beyond maybe a feeling-out period with a new submissive (to be sure of a physical compatibility) a "training" period begins where there is no overtly sexual (or play) contact between the Dominant and submissive... this is usually due to the highly emotional  link between submissives and the sex act, and more specifically with women; and so that a relationship is established to build the emotional and spiritual bonds strongly between the two before the strain that sex and scene often brings about

Mine was about 9 years ago, and that's not at all what I experienced.  Most of it was playing and scening right off, with a definite sexual edge to it, if not blatantly sexual.
quote:


but in speaking with females with male Dominants or Masters, i often hear shock and surprise at such a practice; as quite often is the sexual interplay between her and her Dominant in effect rather quickly and often, sometimes subsuming other aspects of the relationship and i have rarely (if at all( heard of a hetero male Dominant who chooses never to practice sexual  activities with  the  females under his power

I put part of this on frenzy, and part of this on females suddenly feeling "free" from prior social boundaries
quote:


this is for male and female Dominants, why the dichotomy?  why (in hetero relations) is sex so often a part of relationship with a female submissive, while often being forbidden with the male?

I think it's the same root cause- because high sex drive in males has become linked to being "manly/aggressive"  Most hetero relationships find a lot of attachment to gender stereotypes.  Male doms peacock their sexuality as a way to show dominance, and male subs supress is as a way to show submission.

Females do it too- but for them it's more a CONTROLLED sexuality (cum when I say/fuck when I say) and not an outright SUPRESSION of sexuality.

quote:


all, what do you think of having a "training period" of at least a few months, where there is no sexual or bdsm activity; where you focus on other parts of the Ds relationship, perhaps until collaring?

I think people should do it if it works for them.

I do what I want when I feel like it when it comes to sex with others.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 2:06:29 PM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		One of my longest D/s relationships was compleatly non-sex...always understood that from the beginning....One of the hazards of being collared to a gay male. He is still in my life, and is a wonderful mentor to both me and my husband.

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 3:15:48 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		While there may be some perceived differences between male tops and female tops, I tend to believe there's an additional variable that is trying really hard to keep itself hidden. I believe there are a lot of guys who are into bdsm because they actually perceive it as a cheap and easy way to get laid. Unlike a vanilla relationship, where they might have to deal with a potential partner who is not going to "give it up", with a submissive, the guy can go into the relationship "demanding" that sex is part of the equation right off the start. I think they've gotten so used to having such power that they have a difficult time when they come across some of the more long-standing practices when it comes to sexual expression in dominant and submissive practices.

Now, having said all that, I've been involved in relationships that had sex and some that didn't have sex. But in all of them, it was a sexual relationship that was a part of D/s, not a vanilla sex relationship that was spiced up with kinky sex. There's a huge difference there, and I really believe there are a lot who don't recognize that and want the whole package.

A long time ago, I was collared to a married woman who was married to a dominant male. He used to be her dominant, but he no longer was. They both had slaves. Our understanding was that there was nothing the two of them couldn't do with their slaves. One day, her husband and I were alone in the house, and he asked me what causes a service submissive to be interested in such a relationship when there's no sex involved. I didn't know how to answer. There was LOTS of sex involved. So, how do you tell someone's husband that "hey, your wife and I have sex all the time" when you thought all along he was convinced of that already? Found out, he just couldn't believe that male submissives had sex with dominant women, even though it was okay that such a thing could happen according to their agreements.

So, perhaps there's a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication going on as well where people think they have a lot more information than they really do, no matter how privy they believe they are to the first person perspective.


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 3:24:32 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		I have had several power exchange relationships there were non sexual.  My current and I were together over a year before we had sex. Again we all have our own styles, preferences and outlooks 

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 3:42:16 PM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		D/s means double standard.  It's about power exchange. 

I personally have no interest in a D/s relationship without sex.  I enjoy the emotional closeness too much.  I also tend not to jump right in to a sexual relationship with anyone until I get to know them and feel comfortable.  I suppose the reason for this is that sex is more about an emotional connection than a physical act for me.  This is probably what you are refering to as a training period, but it is unlikely to last more than a couple weeks.

Tristan

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 3:48:15 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I don't have sex with my submissives because I"m sexually submissive, and find it difficult to flip flop that dynamic from a power exchange with me as the dominant. I've also not had any submissives I was sexually attracted to. Since I"m willing to dominate those who don't turn me on, I simply set it up that they know from the outset I don't have sex with them.

~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to Tristan)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:02:26 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I agree about taking some care to establish a relationship before "diving into the sex pool" (for me, and if I want a relationship to be lasting, I think it can help. For some folks, it doesn't matter). And with what LA (and some others) said about why people might act the way they do (and think what they do).

On another note*this may be a bit un-related, but - I get a wee bit tired of what I view as a steroetype of a submissive man as some kind of "sexual wimp" as well (someone else mentioned a male Dom not being "able to believe" that a submissive male wanted to have (or, possibly could have) sex with a female.

WHAT? It's not true !! (it's possible that it's true for some, but I don't consider this the "norm" - or even close to it.) I admit to not knowing every single submissive male on the planet, But - I do wonder where this presumption came from, and why it continues to proliferate among some people.

The presumption seems to be (for some people), that a submssive man would never allow himself  to be dominated by a female - if he was a "real man". This is just a plain ignorant assumption. When are people going to learn that being submissive, for a man, is just their way of expressing their "kink preference", and that among hetero submissive men this has has zero to do with the sexual orientation of their masculinity?

If the many submissive men weren't "into women", well then they'd be gay, wouldn't they? Well, it might sound "obvious" to state, but  - heterosexual submissive males are not gay (and I will shut up now)... 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2007 4:26:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:11:39 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yup, that sounds like me.

Christ Almighty, what is wrong with fucking your slave?  Do I need to get permission from Jerry Falwell first?

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

so many male Dominants seek to use their subbie girls as fuck holes and sex slaves, only their to service them

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:14:50 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Christ Almighty, what is wrong with fucking your slave?  Do I need to get permission from Jerry Falwell first?



You just invoked the name of Jesus Christ the offspring of the Lord in vain. Otherwise, fuck away, you have Our permission.


_____________________________



(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:15:21 PM   
NovelApproach


Posts: 150
Joined: 3/25/2007
Status: offline 		I think is has something to do with the vanilla world's double standards on sex.  Generally speaking, society seems to believe that men shoud be sexual beings, that they should desire and get sex, and that they are somehow lesser men if they do not.  Women, on the other hand, are expected to be chaste and to wait until marriage, and are considered "slutty" if they do not conform.  Being a "pimp" is supposedly a compliment, being a "whore" is not.  Now apply these ideas to the D/s relationship.  If a Dom is in a sexual relationship with a female sub, one might think it proves his mastery because he's getting sex, and she is being submissive by giving up something precious and taboo.  With a Domme and a male sub, she's being powerful both by being chaste and by withholding something he desires, and he is made submissive because he isn't getting any sex.

This is, of course, rediculous, but it is how many people are programmed to think.  I, personally, have a very sexual relationship with my current sub.  Once in awhile I even let him be on top (hehe, less work for me).  Neither of us feels that this makes me less of a Domme, or that it makes him less of a sub. 


_____________________________

Don't talk at me about the joystick and buttons... tell me about the game.

Sure, I'll Dungeon Master for you. Do you like Eberron? ...oh. That kind of dungeon.

Is it just me or do Theatre Majors make excellent play partners?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:20:33 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I was suprised when I found out that some lifestyle Dommes don't have sex with their subs/slaves. And I felt some antagonism  towards me from other Dommes real or imagined because I want an emotional, sexually sadistic relationship with a submissive man.
It may not be what it's about for other Dommes but it is what it is about for me.
It has taken me a long while to understand my needs.
I think men in general are more capable of understanding their own sexuality than women are. However the less social pressure women feel about their sexuality the more they feel free to experiment just like men. BDSM is a totally freeing experience for me. Both for my dominant nature and my sexuality.
As you suggested I think men are capable of controlling their urges they just don't always want to. It's a choice. Perhaps they just don't feel the same need to care for their partners emotional needs as much as women do. Perhaps women know what it feels like to be used and rejected and therefore try to make sure they don't do it to men. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings. Therefore they make sure that they want to keep a man long term before they 'use' him sexually. Sexual control of a partner is also important to me. I want to make absolutely sure that he/she will be faithful to me. And that takes time. The time prior to entering into a D/s BDSM sexual relationship is a testing time for both myself and a sub. We find out if we are really right for one another without the excitement of sadistic sex or discipline etc. Relationships are not always exciting so I need to know if a sub has the stickability that I require. Some male subs don't want sex they want discipline. Everyone has different needs. It's knowing what they are and being honest with a prospective partner that matters.

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:38:53 PM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		There is never much of a dearth of sexual partners, however, I prefer to not have that kind of interaction with my male submissives.  I prefer my sexual relationships to be with a more Dominating type of man.  But I wouldn't tolerate that from any of the male submissives I have had, or will have.  I prefer not to analyze it.  It is just my preference. 

Generally, the male submissives I have had, do wish for some sexual interaction, but I prefer it to be his reward for serving me well.   I will generally give them some sort of task that will eventually end with him getting my permission to take care of himself in a manner of my choosing. 

I do think there might be something to some men claiming to be dominants that really are only looking for a woman to have kinky sex with, & play out his fantasies.  Not all dominants, but I think with the advent of the internet, the lifestyle attracts some who see this as a means to their pleasure, & take full advantage of it.

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 4:57:04 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting question. I have had one casual D/s relationship where no sex was involved but then, there was no type of BDSM play either. It was O.K. but struck me as remarkably similar to a friendship...and a friendship that could be extremely frustrating at times.

I am a sexual being. I freely admit that. I am also an intellectual and spiritual being. I am a sensual, sadistic being. I am a dominant being. I prefer that all these factors be stimulated in a relationship that I am in. I have submissives that are friends and I have dominants that are friends and I have vanilla friends and family. Each of those relationships touch different parts of me but there is not any of them that touch all parts. When I am involved in a D/s relationship, because I gravitate towards intelligent and capable women, all of those aspects of me...and more...are engaged. Yes, it is a great way to get laid but if that was all there was to it, I would have given it up a long time ago because in all actuality, the work-up is a hell of a lot more than that which is involved in most vanilla couplings.

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 5:08:03 PM   
alecdom


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/13/2004
Status: offline 		Isn't really about what we have learned to value in oursleves. Men have come to value their ability to be men, make war, lead the team and enslave women. When men submit they give up what they have come to value (or believe they shouldvalue) most - their masculinity. Women are taught to guard their sexuality and virginity, to give that up wantonly to a man is almost a defiant act within our society. I work with families in poverty. What I see is young girls who simply accept that their single mother's lot in life is all they can expect, while their brothers see the actions of their male role models as their right in life.

Why do strong business women enjoy being submissive? Haven't we all have met businessmen who prefer to be a sissy at night?

As a scultor and an artist I merely like the patterns and shapes the whips and bludgeons form on a woman's flesh. It arouses me to make love to their new-found beauty. They are my canvas, my creations. So, we all have our passions.

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 6:25:49 PM   
PairOfDimes


Posts: 324
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline 		In answer to your first question, see your subsequent paragraphs. Surely those droves of dominant, heterosexual women who "are strictly 'no sex' with their subbie boys," are having nonsexual BDSM or d/s relationships.

I don't have sex with most people with whom I play because it often doesn't strike me as fun, and, at least in d/s relationships, I don't do much that I don't find satisfying--that's one of the perks of being the dominant. :) I'm not extraordinarily big on the chastity thing, either, for the record--it's fun to tease people, and it's often nice to control things, but sex isn't all that special for me. I have sex more often with female playmates than with male playmates, because I think women are hotter than men, thus I am struck with sexual desire for them from time to time.

A trial period of a few months where we're "in a relationship" (not dating, not getting to know one another, but in some species of d/s relationship) and we focus on non-playtime activities? Not my thing. If it works for you, I'm glad you've identified your preferred relational style. A big part of why I do this is the SM and the service--without either, you're going to have to be really, really wonderful in other ways, and honestly, for non-SM, non-sexual, non-service wonderfulness, my primary partner is a tough act to follow.

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 6:32:57 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		DarkChyld,

quote:

  so many male Dominants seek to use their subbie girls as fuck holes and sex slaves, only their to service them


True but not many do it with the gusto and panache that I do.  I know it seems wrong if they don't do it your way, but don't feel bad, I think you all do it wrong because you don't do it my way!

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) - 8/1/2007 7:36:41 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP..ok, I may be going into stereotyping mode, but I will give this question a shot..IMO..men tend to be more ruled by their sexual nature, thus male Dominants enjoy the fruits of their labors..male submissives on the other hand although still ruled by their sexual natures,submit this will to their Domme,who is also aware of the ruling of male nature..Now in reverse..(waiting for flames here)..most females have for the most part , throughout the ages have had control over their sexual natures due in no small part to genetics and to societel pressures, so hence the female sub will turn that nature to be nurtured over to her Dominant to create , usually, his sexual slut.And the female Dominant will incur her thoughts on sexual control onto the male submissive...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Ds and Sex, or does Ds Stand for Double Standard?) Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125