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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 6:28:58 AM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Zensee: I believe due to your appearance  and philosphical outlook you could be described as the Stephen Sondheim of the CM boards. A producer of mosly dissonent material of no general appeal with the occasional good tune thrown in.
My little joke MrZ


I write the songs but you provide the inspiration, Seeks. I couldn't do it without you.


Z.


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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 6:54:44 AM   
DarkWriter


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Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline 		Some of those differences are genetic, of course. Others are economic, technological and philosophical. When the slave breeding you mentioned was going on, my ancestors were still in Europe getting pushed from town to town. Yes, being Jewish in Europe was a little racist nightmare all its own for the last two thousand years or so. They were also seen as different from their neighbors, inferior, sometimes diabolical and yet they were genetically--and in many ways culturally--no different from their neighbors.

I guess the point of all this is that the differences we make between the so-called races are artificial and stupid. Race is the result of our ancestors adapting to a new environment, nothing more. Everything else is culture and that, like the differences themselves, is also man-made.




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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 7:25:45 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkWriter
Yes, being Jewish in Europe was a little racist nightmare all its own for the last two thousand years or so. They were also seen as different from their neighbors, inferior, sometimes diabolical and yet they were genetically--and in many ways culturally--no different from their neighbors.
That is not true. Jewish people are a distinct population that have a gene pool that differs from the gene pools of other populations. What makes it worse is that they have erected religious barriers against exchanging genetic material with those other gene pools.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkWriter
I guess the point of all this is that the differences we make between the so-called races are artificial and stupid.
There are differences between the gene pools of populations. That may result in one of those populations being seen as inferior and sometimes diabolical by other populations.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkWriter
Race is the result of our ancestors adapting to a new environment, nothing more.
You very clearly are not a population geneticist nor an evolution biologist. Don't you know that evolution is all about reproductive success and the ability to survive dangers (like disease)? Don't you know that a tiny change in whatever aspect of a population has evolutionary repercussions? I will give you a hint: removing the foreskin from a penis is not a tiny change. It is a major event in the biological fitness of a population and the evolutionary repercussions from that behaviour are severe. Jews (and Muslims) are five or six times more likely to produce children that die from inherited genetic diseases than christians of European descent. Many of them are also seen as inferior or diabolical by other populations. Verily, those populations that remove the foreskin from their males are cursed by the Creator whose creation they have disfigured. They are without grace, having circumcized their penis, but not their heart (that is somewhere in the New Testament by Saint Paul).

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/7/2007 7:27:25 AM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 8:18:06 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

You very clearly are not a population geneticist nor an evolution biologist


That horse died some time back. 

Everyone one here gets that genetics doesn't use that term for measurment.
Some people here refuse to get it that many other disciplines do use that term.

In any case, the concept of race may have been created  in response to social adaptation, not biogical.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 8:57:39 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

 I will give you a hint: removing the foreskin from a penis is not a tiny change. It is a major event in the biological fitness of a population and the evolutionary repercussions from that behaviour are severe. Jews (and Muslims) are five or six times more likely to produce children that die from inherited genetic diseases than christians of European descent. Many of them are also seen as inferior or diabolical by other populations. Verily, those populations that remove the foreskin from their males are cursed by the Creator whose creation they have disfigured. They are without grace, having circumcized their penis, but not their heart (that is somewhere in the New Testament by Saint Paul).



Gasp: if you spoke in earnest, you may join the ranks of RealOne and Termin8or. If you joked, it was in poor taste.

Unbelievable.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 9:14:48 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		It was not a joke. Natural selection is not a joke. Reproductive success and the effects of diseases upon populations are what a lot of evolution is all about. When one single cell on the skin of an elephant due to a mutation is changed in one of its characteristics, natural selection will jump on this tiny change in the phenotype of the elephant like a lion on a zebra. So what do you think will happen when the phenotypical change is a major issue like the removal of the foreskin of the penis of the males in a population? The evolutionary repercussions will be extremely severe and will be analogous to natural selection jumping on this population like all the sharks in the oceans jumping on a single red herring.
 
"The Cold Equations" is a science fiction short story by Tom Godwin. It is about a girl that is a stow-away on a spaceship. This spaceship requires fuel to transport mass. It does not have the fuel to transport her mass. So she is put overboard and has to breathe vacuum. She messed with the cold equations of physics to her detriment. Neither may one mutilate the creation of the Creator and not suffer the consequences. Natural selection is a harsh master.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/7/2007 9:27:08 AM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:01:12 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
 
"The Cold Equations" is a science fiction short story by Tom Godwin. It is about a girl that is a stow-away on a spaceship. This spaceship requires fuel to transport mass. It does not have the fuel to transport her mass. So she is put overboard and has to breathe vacuum. She messed with the cold equations of physics to her detriment. Neither may one mutilate the creation of the Creator and not suffer the consequences. Natural selection is a harsh master.


Ah, I see! You weren't joking but you're in fact completely loopy! It's okay then  .

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:11:22 AM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		Rule, I think you are scaring kS with all of the talk about reality not being changeable to suit people's whims...

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:18:13 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		This thread had its moments of greatness... where were you then, Al, my pal  ?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:32:40 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		And where did you get that idea that circumcision influences the lineage of the people who practice it? Please, I'd be most interested to read it.

And why didn't you mention that today in America, it's a very common practice in hospitals for ALL populations of children, whatever their religion (or absence thereof)? Why did you only talk of the Jews and Muslims doing it?



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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:37:58 AM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
Status: offline 		i wonder how long this thread can continue..

hmm, i'm thinking maybe another18 pages?

i'm taking bets.. anyone wanna go over or under?




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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:39:47 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Rule, I think you are scaring kS with all of the talk about reality not being changeable to suit people's whims...

Most bacteria know more about evolution than most humans... I suppose that I then am a bacterium, having a better grasp of the principles of evolution than any other being.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:42:26 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I don't bet: I have too many vices as it is. But that's probably because I'm Jewish  .

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:43:53 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I suppose that I then am a bacterium [...].



You said it, mate!

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 10:49:35 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This thread had its moments of greatness... where were you then, Al, my pal  ?


I think you are playing as fast and lose with that defintion as you have with 'science' among others. Or did you make a typo on 'moments of  great excess?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 11:10:23 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
And why didn't you mention that today in America, it's a very common practice in hospitals for ALL populations of children, whatever their religion (or absence thereof)?
They are all doomed. That population will all turn into Jews, cursed onto the seventh generation for ignoring the admonishment of Saint Paul, for defacing the house of the mind.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Why did you only talk of the Jews and Muslims doing it?
I am not an American. Thus, though I am aware of the sacrilege of mutilating the creation of the Creator committed by the christian population of the USA, it is not what is the first thing to spring to my mind. Rest assured that they will be punished and pay severely for their sin against the Creator.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/7/2007 11:11:30 AM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 11:14:48 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Okkkkkaayyyy...

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 11:32:38 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Rule, aren't you the guy who said you've visited Mars or something like that?  I remember we had some kind of intergalactic conversation a while ago.

Are there Jews on Mars too?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 11:34:22 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I think not using the word 'race' is a good start. I never taught my son to look at other people's colour. It's pretty evident to a person that can see that humanity comes in many shades and different looks. And you know what? It works. He doesn't describe people by the colour of their skin.

I believe if we all showed some good faith towards those that LOOK different from us, we'd be moving towards a safer, kinder society. 

It's still baffling to me that there are so many people who remain attached to their 'racial beliefs'. Is it a security blanket for them? Does it make them feel safer in their understanding of the world at large? Are they scared of 'the other'? I don't know, but I have to live with these people and their insecurities actually affect me: thus, I grab my right to question their beliefs with relish.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/7/2007 11:36:44 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Rule, aren't you the guy who said you've visited Mars or something like that?  I remember we had some kind of intergalactic conversation a while ago.

Are there Jews on Mars too?


Ah, but that explains a lot, you know. I was starting to get a serious case of the blinkies.

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