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The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 11:48:42 AM   
labrat18610


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		I'm pretty vanilla. I never got into B, S&M. It seems to me that once you cross over that line, you have to put all your trust into your partner's sanity. Now, we've all seen the posts, "I'm a newbie, where do I find a Master". You can hear the inexperience in their posts. I've also read some very disturbing posts in Collarme. These are from people, whom you wonder if they have autographed pictures of Bundy or Dahmer on their walls. Let's face it, this group would be an ideal hunting ground for such types. And there's no way I'd meet any of you in a dark, secluded parking lot at 2 AM. So, for the "newbies", before they  click that email send button, what are some of the RED warning  flags that this person is dangerous?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 12:12:00 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		There is no difference between meeting people in this realm or meeting someone from any one of the three zillion other personals sites. Warning flags can be anything, based on one's own experiences, preferences, or fears.

There's simply no way to know. It's like asking "How do I know if this person has some incurable / transmittable disease just by looking at him?" One just has to be careful, selective and slow about giving out personal information.

If this person is interesting and someone with whom one can establish a mental / emotional / intellectual rapport ... ~shrug~ ... there is no reason to be any more or any less suspicious just because of his or her kink proclivities.

If something is unappealing to you or makes you feel uneasy, pass it by. Some people are into needle play, knife play, fire play, and I'm assuming this is what you mean in your Dahmer comparison. Make such things a hard limit don't communicate with anyone who has the interests that distress you.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 12:19:45 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		In my experience, there is no greater or lesser risk in online BDSM interaction than there are in 'vanilla' online interaction.  I will admit, though, I've never made an effort to meet a gay dominant.  My advice is the same as for straight folk though;

A) don't make a big thing of it.  Meet as soon as is plausible, in a safe/neutral location (coffee shops are excellent, crowded strip clubs...not so much...though I have done that once.)

B) be aware of 'little lies.'  One or two I can overlook.  When it's major (yes, this is subjective) I cut em loose.  Period.  If you feel you 'love' someone you are talking to online, you're too hooked on a fantasy, and one that will probably dissappoint.

C) be smart about it.  Don't expect that just because you've been chatting for three months, that you 'know' the person.  You don't.  It'll be up to your judgement to decide how far you want to take it; any submissive will tell you, that you don't have to obey someone you have not actively submitted to.  That requires trust, and trust takes time.  Give yourself the time to grow that trust.  Don't trust someone who won't wait.

Good luck,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 1:23:37 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

I'm pretty vanilla. I never got into B, S&M. It seems to me that once you cross over that line, you have to put all your trust into your partner's sanity. Now, we've all seen the posts, "I'm a newbie, where do I find a Master". You can hear the inexperience in their posts. I've also read some very disturbing posts in Collarme. These are from people, whom you wonder if they have autographed pictures of Bundy or Dahmer on their walls. Let's face it, this group would be an ideal hunting ground for such types. And there's no way I'd meet any of you in a dark, secluded parking lot at 2 AM. So, for the "newbies", before they  click that email send button, what are some of the RED warning  flags that this person is dangerous?

Your first mistake is to combine the word "newbie" and the suggestion that anyone should meet someone new in a dark, secluded parking lot at 2am.  How about setting the meeting up for a public spot like a restaurant, including telling the server or host that you're meeting someone for the first time, and having yourself a safe call?  That'd be a bit more sensible AND far more predictable than me trying to tell you how to have good internal radar that someone is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

FWIW, I personally think that the people (if they heed general safety protocol that is advocated) on this or any other BDSM site are more safe in practice than on a vanilla site.  I don't hear the people at match.com talking about safe calls, meeting in public, SSC, RACK and the like.

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 8/4/2007 1:25:44 PM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 4:37:41 PM   
tatangel


Posts: 507
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I guess my question would be, first, if you are vanilla, why are you here? Second, if you are curious, would'nt you learn more by asking reasonable questions, instead of insulting people with serial killer comparasions? And last of all, having no common sense has nothing to do with this lifestyle, it is part of a person, and it seems to me if anything, people are more cautious here, since they are fully aware that if you are going to let someone tie you up, you had better be damn sure who you are dealing with. Just my 0.02.

_____________________________

It used to be that being crazy meant something...now everybody's crazy.

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 4:55:30 PM   
labrat18610


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		Let me rephrase. I did not intend to say that this group was the problem. Engaging in BDSM requires a high degree of trust in your partner. For beginners, who post that they are "newbies", they are stating  that they are some what naive. They may get email from Master X or Mistress Y. Since a "newbie" really don't know who these people are nor what they really want, what would a seasoned member consider as a warning sign. Unfortunately, some people can get into situations they hadn't bargained for. I meant this question to educate "newbies" to look for red warning flags that more experienced members would recognize.
Rick

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 5:11:17 PM   
CutieMouse


Posts: 81
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

Let me rephrase. I did not intend to say that this group was the problem. Engaging in BDSM requires a high degree of trust in your partner. For beginners, who post that they are "newbies", they are stating  that they are some what naive. They may get email from Master X or Mistress Y. Since a "newbie" really don't know who these people are nor what they really want, what would a seasoned member consider as a warning sign. Unfortunately, some people can get into situations they hadn't bargained for. I meant this question to educate "newbies" to look for red warning flags that more experienced members would recognize.
Rick


Common sense is common sense... and IMO there are "newbies" who wander down the BDSM path and ignore all rules of common sense, because for some silly reason they think a BDSM relationship is some magical different something-or-other with different "rules of ettiquite." Those who ignore common sense are more likely to end up in less than safe situations - regardless of how many times they are giving a list of "red flags."

If I could say anything to a "newbie", I'd say take 6 - 12 months to work on yourself (I'm a slow-poke... I took 3 years LOL), before looking for a relationship. Figure out the difference between fantasy and reality; decide what you will and will not accept/tolerate; know what your wants and needs are. Figure out what you bring to the table, and develop those skills. Read books (not romance novels or erotica), ask questions, go to munches if you feel so inclined; if you are well educated, the "red flags" will take care of themselves. Realize that you might consider yourself a submissive, but that doesn't mean you are weak, or have to take BS from someone just because they say they are a Dominant or Master, and   you are responsible for you (until you decide otherwise).

It is possible to be a "newbie" with little or no experience (raises hand), without being a victim... all it takes is a dedication to one's own health and happiness, and a little common sense.


(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 7:12:01 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Now wait a minute. Whats up with this post? " I guess my question would be, first, if you are vanilla, why are you here?" Excuse me? Are we taking tickets at the door?  Should we then say, Oops. Sorry. Your ticket says vanilla. Please wait outside. Seems silly to me.

Anyone can post on this site. I think "Vanilla" people are welcome as well. Yours truely, Sophia. "Vanilla" lurker since 2006 PS. I also like my vanilla dipped in chocolate or covered with sprinkles. I too have my own kinks

(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 7:28:51 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

Let me rephrase. I did not intend to say that this group was the problem. Engaging in BDSM requires a high degree of trust in your partner. For beginners, who post that they are "newbies", they are stating  that they are some what naive. They may get email from Master X or Mistress Y. Since a "newbie" really don't know who these people are nor what they really want, what would a seasoned member consider as a warning sign. Unfortunately, some people can get into situations they hadn't bargained for. I meant this question to educate "newbies" to look for red warning flags that more experienced members would recognize.
Rick

So are you saying that these adults are all stupid and were born yesterday????  I'm trying to figure out where being an adult signing up to talk to others on an internet site suddenly leaves you with the intelligence of a flea!?!?!?!

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 9:47:27 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		You're incorrect in assuming that meeting someone interested in these activities is more risky than meeting someone anywhere else. Years ago I occasionally met men at bars, at parties, at museums and went home with them. I was at more risk doing that then I am talking to someone extensively for weeks before meeting.

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/4/2007 10:00:48 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Red flags for me...
 
  • the person wants to meet IMMEDIATLY without phone calls, emails and IMs exchanged for a period where I have a decent idea of who the person is
  • they protest that I call them.. I dont get a phone number or a REAL first name
  • they have a FIT when I say that I dont play on a first meet [i have, just not SOP]
  • the person professes to be an 'expert' yet obviously hasnt a clue
  • they dont have r/t experience.. just online
  • they dont believe in safe calls
  • they ask me to meet them at a hotel or a secluded place

I'm not a newbie an I still take certain precautions before i meet someone. Above was a short list of red flags, for me.
 
I never understood how lifestyle equalled 'loss of common sence' or intelligence or instincts.
 
Basic and most fundamental thing to remember, listen to your instincts; they are usually right. They have saved my life more than a few times.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/5/2007 9:48:46 AM   
labrat18610


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		slaverosebeauty;
Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. Common sense isn't so common. There are thousands per month of "common sense" people getting ripped off by internet scams. While I'm not suggesting that happens here, members, who have experience, ought to make new people aware to some of the tip offs that this person may not be suitable for them.
Rick

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/5/2007 12:39:44 PM   
CutieMouse


Posts: 81
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

slaverosebeauty;
Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. Common sense isn't so common. There are thousands per month of "common sense" people getting ripped off by internet scams. While I'm not suggesting that happens here, members, who have experience, ought to make new people aware to some of the tip offs that this person may not be suitable for them.
Rick


The same "tip offs" that tell me a "vanilla" man might not be suitable for me, apply in kink-based relationships. It's pretty freaking simple, if one keeps their wits about them. What is with the fragile flower who can't think for herself or use good judgement thing?

As alluded to above, I spent 3 years working on *me* before putting up a profile; within a week of looking into BDSM, I knew it would be the highest form of idiocy to do 98% of the unsafe things you (the OP) seems concerned about protecting "newbies" from. IMO, any reputable website or book relating to BDSM, covers the basics of how to seperate the Horney Net Geeks from the respectable BDSM participants, and covers safe calls, public first meetings, not playing on the first date, getting (and confirming) ID before meeting, and getting references.

This magic "red flag" list isn't some secret hard to find thing... and in the 3 years I've wandered around message boards, read books, gone to munches, the "red flags" list has been consistantly available/discussed... and consistantly ignored by persons who are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own safety and happiness.

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/5/2007 4:39:01 PM   
grlneedstolearn


Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		So what exactly should we be commenting on??? i'm soo confused right now

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 1:35:52 PM   
MastersMaiden


Posts: 51
Joined: 7/17/2007
Status: offline 		lol im confused too..however my red flags are pretty much the same as slaverosebeauty's, not wanting a safe call, etc etc ;)

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 8:09:00 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CutieMouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

Let me rephrase. I did not intend to say that this group was the problem. Engaging in BDSM requires a high degree of trust in your partner. For beginners, who post that they are "newbies", they are stating  that they are some what naive. They may get email from Master X or Mistress Y. Since a "newbie" really don't know who these people are nor what they really want, what would a seasoned member consider as a warning sign. Unfortunately, some people can get into situations they hadn't bargained for. I meant this question to educate "newbies" to look for red warning flags that more experienced members would recognize.
Rick


Common sense is common sense... and IMO there are "newbies" who wander down the BDSM path and ignore all rules of common sense, because for some silly reason they think a BDSM relationship is some magical different something-or-other with different "rules of ettiquite." Those who ignore common sense are more likely to end up in less than safe situations - regardless of how many times they are giving a list of "red flags."

If I could say anything to a "newbie", I'd say take 6 - 12 months to work on yourself (I'm a slow-poke... I took 3 years LOL), before looking for a relationship. Figure out the difference between fantasy and reality; decide what you will and will not accept/tolerate; know what your wants and needs are. Figure out what you bring to the table, and develop those skills. Read books (not romance novels or erotica), ask questions, go to munches if you feel so inclined; if you are well educated, the "red flags" will take care of themselves. Realize that you might consider yourself a submissive, but that doesn't mean you are weak, or have to take BS from someone just because they say they are a Dominant or Master, and   you are responsible for you (until you decide otherwise).

It is possible to be a "newbie" with little or no experience (raises hand), without being a victim... all it takes is a dedication to one's own health and happiness, and a little common sense.


I am in full agreement with Cutie....newbie does not ever necessarily mean, ignorant with head up tushy...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 10:36:55 PM   
straykitten


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Detroit, MI
Status: offline 		If they consider making a lampshade out of me a form of objectification, I tend to stop replying to their e-mails.  Ditto for suddenly commanding "It puts the lotion on its skin, it does this whenever it's told" during cybersex.


ETA: As far as a serious answer goes, I'm in agreement with the replies posted...I mean, I've never had a D/s relationship to speak of, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go trotting off earnestly down a dark alley just because a person was nice to me online.


< Message edited by straykitten -- 8/15/2007 11:03:17 PM >

(in reply to labrat18610)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 10:41:35 PM   
Alhazred


Posts: 134
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline 		*ROTFL*

It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the hose!!!


_____________________________

"A Great Smelting Pot" - Chuang-tzu

(in reply to straykitten)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 10:51:56 PM   
straykitten


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Detroit, MI
Status: offline 		Seriously...

serialkillerDom69: Put the lotion in the basket
straykittenrox: Um, I thought you were spanking me because I misbehaved
serialkillerDom69: PUT THE ****ING LOTION IN THE BASKET
serialkillerDom69: ::starts dancing to "Wild Horses"::
straykittenrox: O_o

(in reply to Alhazred)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Dark Side Of The Force - 8/15/2007 10:54:06 PM   
Alhazred


Posts: 134
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline 		seriously: Vanilla Ice Cream + Two shots of Anisette liquer.

_____________________________

"A Great Smelting Pot" - Chuang-tzu

(in reply to straykitten)
Profile   Post #: 20
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