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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 2:54:00 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		To an extent they are all 'untrained'... in serving ME rather than in serving another. In that respect there is little difference.

One area where I have a prefference for a girl with experience is that they have something real on which to base their wants and assesment of wether they are indeed suited to the kind of Dynamic being entered into rather than simply being in love with the concept and fantasy.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 2:57:51 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

<watches this thread with curiosity

Same curiosity....

Keep it coming Masters, i am opening my bottle of port, crack... now reaching for the olives...

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 8:01:06 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		For me, whether trained or not is really irrelevant. It is so hard to find someone where the two of you fit together like hand and glove. Where you find that feeling that something extraordinary is beginning to happen. If you were to imagine right now that feeling of being with just the right person, with me that tells you everything that is really important. Forget the level of training. When the connection is so strong, so right, go for it.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 8:37:51 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Some "training" can come in handy so that the very basics don't have to be taught from scratch.
Do you know how to cook basic methods?
Good that means I don't have to teach the basics of working in a kitchen. You know what most of the tools look like and how they are used. Specialty tools and adjustments to taste preferences can be made easily enough.

Do you know how to drive a car, good then adjustment of standards is all I need to teach not how to start, shift gears, use a turn signal, adjust and check mirrors, etc. Standards of how I want you to drive me around are going to be different.
When to start, what RPM to shift, how long before actually moving to use a turn signal, etc.

Fine tune is a good way someone mentioned earlier.

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 10:48:43 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I don't get how someone can shift, steer, brake, gas, apply lipstick and look out windsheild at the same time. You people use turn signals??? lol ouch. Me and cars don't get along.  Cooking, yes. 

So the basics then are: manners, intelligence, etc etc?

How much sexual experience also does one need? Does sexual experience even have to do with submission? just wonderin'. 

< Message edited by came4U -- 8/8/2007 10:49:43 AM >

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 11:09:37 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

So the basics then are: manners, intelligence, etc etc?

How much sexual experience also does one need? Does sexual experience even have to do with submission? just wonderin'. 

Well that depends...  LOL

Seriously, it really does depend on the individual dominant.  Taking the question of sex, some might prefer a virgin, others might prefer a literal whore... and just about anything inbetween.  For some manners are very important, others might not care very much, just as some might one someone very intelligent while others could care less if she's a "bubble headed bleach blond".  Which just goes to show, it pays to get to know the dominant as a person.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 12:15:59 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
How much sexual experience also does one need? Does sexual experience even have to do with submission? just wonderin'.


Depends what is being looked for. If I'm taking on a service sub it has nothing to do with it and frankly I couldn't care less if they are virgin or the whore of Babylon so long as they can submit to the standard I requred and compleat the tasks I want them for.

A relationship, such as the primary Dynamic I seek, it matters but isn't the main priority. If everything else was right then I'd take on a virgin but again I preffer a girl who is experienced enough to know what she is doing rather than being taught from scratch... as Archer said, then its just fine tuning.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 11:08:27 PM   
KiandPhoenix


Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		I just had this discussion with my sub last night. I like either, but I think I enjoy watching someone figure out who they are way to much. So over all I think I prefer untrained to trained. Both have a lot of merrit to me though.

~Ki

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 11:32:09 PM   
hazenut


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		I understand that this post is being asked to dominants, but I'm also very curious about this myself. This is something I posted in my journal a while back. Just some of my feelings on it from a submissive point of view. Thanks for starting a great thread :)
 
'I am being trained. I've come to find that doms have mixed feelings about this. I've talked to a few that don't want their future sub to receive any training, but from them. I've talked to a few that think the idea is great and know that you will be able to serve them better. As for me, I think that this is perfect in my case. I understand that of course things will need to be tweaked and some re-training or un-training may have to take place in some areas. I think the dom that is training me is trying to keep this as general as possible and just really trying to put the idea of doing anything the dom asks of me without question or hesitation. If it wasn't for this in advance, when I did find a dom....oh boy, I would flake. This is helping me out so much. I'm learning about myself, what I like and don't like, how to think/act....the list goes on. If anyone has a problem with this, I would like to know why. If you think this is a great thing to do, I'd like to hear about that as well. I'm continuing with this either way until I'm ready to be owned. I'm doing this for myself and the benefit of my future owner. Thanks for reading, just wanted to share that with you all.'
 
My feelings are still the same. Training for me has been nothing but benefical. However, I am speaking for myself and everyone is different. Hopefully the person that owns me in the future will be okay with the fact that I went through this. Hope this helps.

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 11:46:05 PM   
MistressScarlot


Posts: 51
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		It's funny....training is such a completely subjective thing. It's not like there are "standards".

The right previously trained boy can be a real joy, requiring very little work to customize what he's already understood and experienced to your liking. A poorly trained boy will have firm ideas of "the way things are" and it can be hard to undo that. Likewise, some boys with no experience have ideas of how things "will be" and that can be hard to combat if unrealistic. At the same time....currently I have the joy of training a 22 year old adorable virgin boy, and I'm finding that to be a lot of fun--he's so very new and moldable that there isn't the jaded sensability I sometimes feel in experienced submissives. In the end, though, that has very much more to do with his specific attitude, potentials and abilities than the fact that he's new.

I think...it just really depends on the submissive, and the compatibilities that exist between us and our ideas of submission and domination.

(in reply to hazenut)
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/8/2007 11:51:31 PM   
MistressScarlot


Posts: 51
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
How much sexual experience also does one need? Does sexual experience even have to do with submission? just wonderin'.


I guess I could have included this in my last response....I don't think sexual experience has anything at all to do with submission. Any good dominant who is the right fit for you will have the know-how to teach you what he/she likes/wants from you sexually. The most important thing is having the desire to explore the ideas inherent in submission, in a submissive. : )  Not so much experience, especially sexually.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 7:52:43 AM   
WolfLord2006


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		I prefer novices there easier to train to  what  I want  lol

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 8:39:59 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline

Just wanting to know what different Masters opinions are for if they prefer already trained subs or to train a sub themselves? A lot of Doms profiles say they want experienced subs.

Experienced and trained are not synonyms.  General experience can be helpful in creating context, common understanding and reducing the need to explain lots of minor points.  Training tends to be specific, training also means behavior modification and that means the formation of habits.   Habits which may not always be desireable.  A slave might have been thoroughly trained to prepare dozens of kinds of steak dinnners... which will be next to worthless if her new master is a vegetarian.


I was getting very confused by the use of the term " trained" on this thread...but reading this analogy makes more sense to me...
so, we are talking about  experience rather than training, correct ??
 
imo...submitting is typically ( and I emphasis that word "typically" so that some do not have a meltdown about absolute terms ) a reactive response..reaction to the direction of the one in control.....and so  to be "trained" to do certain things> would seem, to me, to change from person to person and their preferences and desires...
 
I do not remember being "trained" to do anything..
 
I remembering, as a child,  being taught to play the organ ( talking about the musical organ ) and when I first sat down I literally knew nothing about it..nadda...I had to be taught> trained everything, even how to hold my hands properly and move my fingers. That in my mind is training.
 
When I came to a Ds relationship > I brought so much of what was already inside me naturally, to it... I didnt have to be trained to move, feel,taught a desire to please, willingness to put my needs and wants aside, or how to follow directions and instructions.<<< those things all came with me into it. 
 The things I didn't know I found out because of the dominants lead and listening to his reactions to what I was doing ( ie  pleasing me or displeasing him ) ..<< I feel those things are specific only to that individual and will change from person to person and differ in different relationships...
 
I hear this term so much tho' and think I might be missing something...

 

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Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 9:43:27 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		i thought i was missing something also.
But now that i have a better understanding i know that i am not, i am naturally emphatic, can easily connect to another and a 'look' usually is just enough.
Just so much terminology, it seems to be more heavy weighted that it actually is. But this is the modern world of literacy, i watch animals, they dance it so well.

Words can be so confusing and misleading. It is better to just feel it.

Also thanks to everyone for participating, and enlightening.

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 9:57:39 AM   
EldroRolod


Posts: 28
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		My personal favorite is the one who says, "I know I'm submissive, I just don't know what to do with it."  This allows you to enter the relationship with a set distinction between the Dom and sub, but gives you a world of room in which to work and grow.  I prefer "finding" the true submissive inside them and helping them develop into the type of submissive they long to be rather than "making" them something.  I've never "made" someone submissive and I don't think you can.  I love helping them find it within themselves.

But I would agree that if I were taking on a slave or sub to provide a service, domestic or otherwise, experience is a good thing to look for.  Otherwise, it is the same.  Drawing out their submission and then teaching them how to please you while giving them their fulfillment as well. So, to contrast myself.. lol  for my own personal slave, I prefer inexperienced but eager to explore their submission with my guidance.  For a service sub to come clean my house?  If I had to look over their shoulder to make sure they were doing it correctly, I'd find a new one.

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 10:03:39 AM   
EldroRolod


Posts: 28
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hazenut

I think the dom that is training me is trying to keep this as general as possible and just really trying to put the idea of doing anything the dom asks of me without question or hesitation. If it wasn't for this in advance, when I did find a dom....oh boy, I would flake. This is helping me out so much.


In your case, under these circumstances, yes, I think training of this kind is beneficial.  Learning the basics and learning general expectations should in no way impact specific training from your Master once you find the one who satisfies your needs.

< Message edited by EldroRolod -- 8/11/2007 10:07:44 AM >

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 10:10:24 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline

i thought i was missing something also.
But now that i have a better understanding i know that i am not, i am naturally emphatic, can easily connect to another and a 'look' usually is just enough.
Just so much terminology, it seems to be more heavy weighted that it actually is. But this is the modern world of literacy, i watch animals, they dance it so well.

Words can be so confusing and misleading. It is better to just feel it.

Also thanks to everyone for participating, and enlightening.

EldroRolod writes:
[I've never "made" someone submissive and I don't think you can.  I love helping them find it within themselves]

This makes sense to me...

< Message edited by Cyntilating -- 8/11/2007 10:12:39 AM >

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 10:25:33 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		very nicely put cyntilating...............I agree :)

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/11/2007 10:25:54 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline

Just wanting to know what different Masters opinions are for if they prefer already trained subs or to train a sub themselves? A lot of Doms profiles say they want experienced subs.


"Trained" is a pretty squishy word.  To some it might mean that the girl has been to play or dungeons before and knows how to behave without making a fool of herself and her dom/owner/master.  To others it might mean physical or sexual training.  To others it might mean that a girl has some experience in a particular kind of play that the dom doesn't want to have to spend much time explaining or talking her into.  Still others might think that "trained" means that a girl has been taught her place as a slave, and knows how to behave as one in a household and therefore won't be an undue disruption to the household while she struggles with what. 

If a man or woman says they're looking for you to have been "trained" it's a good idea to ask what they mean by that.  For me personally, it means that a girl has some understanding of her place in a household like mine, and has perhaps had some training in the protocol that is expected.  If she hasn't, she's probably going to be more work and something of a disruption to the household while she learns.  I'd have to weigh that againt my perception of how valuable a slave she might be after she was "trained".

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/11/2007 10:27:54 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 8/12/2007 9:40:57 AM   
MasterJBK


Posts: 89
Joined: 3/7/2005
Status: offline 		I prefer to train them myself so they know my likes and dislikes.

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