Padriag
Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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ORIGINAL: Cyntilating
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ORIGINAL: Padriag
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ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline
Just wanting to know what different Masters opinions are for if they prefer already trained subs or to train a sub themselves? A lot of Doms profiles say they want experienced subs.
Experienced and trained are not synonyms. General experience can be helpful in creating context, common understanding and reducing the need to explain lots of minor points. Training tends to be specific, training also means behavior modification and that means the formation of habits. Habits which may not always be desireable. A slave might have been thoroughly trained to prepare dozens of kinds of steak dinnners... which will be next to worthless if her new master is a vegetarian.
I was getting very confused by the use of the term " trained" on this thread...but reading this analogy makes more sense to me...
so, we are talking about experience rather than training, correct ??
That depends on who "we" happens to be. For the moment the discussion seems to be about both.
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imo...submitting is typically ( and I emphasis that word "typically" so that some do not have a meltdown about absolute terms ) a reactive response..reaction to the direction of the one in control.....and so to be "trained" to do certain things> would seem, to me, to change from person to person and their preferences and desires...
It's reactive at a very basic level. You are correct that one is trained to do certain things, specific behaivors or skills, desired by a particular dominant; and that this will vary from one dominant to the next. Both experience and training can be part of moving the relationship beyond that basic reactive level. Consider this, at the beginning of the relationship the submissive is still learning how to please a specific dominant, various likes and dislikes. This forces the submissive into a very reactive mode, there is little the submissive can anticipate or take initiative on because they don't know the dominant well. However, as time passes and the submissive gains experience with this dominant the situation changes... the submissive learns the likes, dislikes, habits and routines of the dominant and can begin anticipating the dominants desires, which in turn allows the submissive to take a more pro-active role rather than simply being reactive. Training can shorten this learning period by deliberately teaching the same information more quickly. Training can also be used to impart specific skills the submissive does not have and is not likely to gain through normal experience. For example, a submissive might over time (i.e. experience) learn what meals the dominant enjoys and when... but the submissive would probably not acquire skills in cooking on a hibachi grill or other specific and advanced cooking skills, these would need to be deliberately taught (training).
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I do not remember being "trained" to do anything..
So at this point you have learned everything through general experience, you have not yet encountered a dominant who required skills or behaviors of you that would require specialized training.
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I remembering, as a child, being taught to play the organ ( talking about the musical organ ) and when I first sat down I literally knew nothing about it..nadda...I had to be taught> trained everything, even how to hold my hands properly and move my fingers. That in my mind is training.
Correct, that was training. Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to play violin for him, would that not require training?
Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to do belly dancing, which is a specialized skill?
Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to be able to speak another language?
Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to act as an executive secretary or personal assistant?
Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to function as a formal maid, complete with the specialized etiquette, specialized knowledge, and other skills?
Suppose you had a dominant who wanted you to function as a ponygirl, including all the specialized behaviors involved with that fetish?
Get the picture, and that's a very short list of the many possibilities.
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When I came to a Ds relationship I brought so much of what was already inside me naturally, to it... I didnt have to be trained to move, feel,taught a desire to please, willingness to put my needs and wants aside, or how to follow directions and instructions. those things all came with me into it.
You brought your submissive nature, which is good. But the mistake I see many submissives making is thinking that alone is always going to be enough. When more effort is required, they object, which is not at all attractive.
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The things I didn't know I found out because of the dominants lead and listening to his reactions to what I was doing ( ie pleasing me or displeasing him ) .. I feel those things are specific only to that individual and will change from person to person and differ in different relationships...
In other words you began learning through experience, which is good and something every submissive should make an effort to do. Any submissive can enhance their ability to do this by learning to be a better observer, to be more consciously aware of things which allows them to learn more quickly. In short, pay attention. 
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I hear this term so much tho' and think I might be missing something...
From the above, the part you may be missing is the function of training. The above examples are of what training can be used for appropriately, what training can and should be. However, the term training gets used inappropriately by individuals who are using it as a means of picking up naive submissives. They claim to be able to "train" submissives or slaves, sometimes in very vague ways, sometimes in supposed "old guard" or "ancient european" protocols... both of which are bogus. This where most of the controversy about training revolves around and where it gets a bad reputation.
Your dominant can train you or have you trained in specific skills, and that's valid.
No one can train you to be a generic slave or submissive...because there is no such thing.
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Padriag
A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer
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RE: Trained or Untrained. - 
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