RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite

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RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:22:52 PM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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Simply because I agree with Michael in principal (if not in vernacular) that the formula is tainted, and unhealthy.

I feel the criticism is a good point to discuss certain topics that contrast the difference between many other hot topics; 'submission as a gift' leaps to mind. "Dominants and their flaws" as another. You feel the need to criticize or question my motivations. It's all good. Rest assured, I have no agenda here.

Stephan

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Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 21

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:27:36 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Doesn't that make a site like Castlerealm all the more necessary? You've got to have a starting point to begin criticizing and start asking questions. I think CR is a great one for that.

Again, I think a lot of what people say about CR is more demonization and piling on than what actually exists on the site at all. I'm not saying I think it's all fabulous- but I don't even think The Washington Post should be read without questioning and analyzing.

I understand the frustration people go through in banging their heads against the fluffy ones and the romanticized goobers- but I don't think castlerealm is the source of the problem at all. And I don't think it's really in any serious way exacerbates it either. I think the social net culture mixed with frenzy are the primary causes.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 22

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:30:30 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Quite right. It's a starting point. Not a very good one, in my opinion. Hence my desire for this thread. As I mentioned, I intend to address elements from specific articles in the future; this first post was to let the furor over Castlerealm in general die down.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:35:21 PM

dawntreader

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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CR was my first site as well and i agree with LA and others, it was a good place to start. It "eased" my transition. I have since experienced the real world of WIIWD but i don't think starting there was detrimental to me. But i will agree with Stephann, that the two threads started by Lord something or other... that kind of stuff will get you into trouble. i want to believe in fairytales like anyone else but putting your head in the clouds is just not safe.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:37:43 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
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Once you fully realize that is is only "your" opinion. I seem to have come through it healthy, sane and intact (at least during those non PMS days which have nothing to do with BDSM but I digress.) No unicorns here unless you count the strappie in the toy box. And I think of the many people that have passed through Castlerealm and who are today still healthy,sane and intact. Formula may be tainted in your eyes but obviously not lethal. Did you ever read the site? If you did how did you ever get to be the person you are today? Don't trust other people to have the same experience? Are they too gullible? Not as sharp as you are? Tell Me, did you read War and Peace in primary school or was it Cinderella? I read Cinderella and My favourite book to date is still Pedagogy of the Oppressed. Cinderella didn't mess Me up and spoil My ability to read and appreciate something with a bit more teeth. It was but one step in My "love of reading" journey.

I'd say the agenda is "I'm very deep and so very BDSM heavy and anyone who reads or (gasp!) takes Castelrealm seriously is just, well, so very "lite." Then again I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 25

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:44:56 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
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Like it or not, CR has value. I would much prefer people getting their first information from CR than from a site that would be the extreme opposite. I personally cannot stand when a dominant tells me how mean and cruel he is or how harsh his punishments are. Give me a freakin' break. That's another fantasyland altogether, for me. Everyone has to find their own place and CR isn't a bad jumping off point. And even if they never get past that first splash, so what? As long as it doesn't interfere with your life and your personal practice, then it's no skin off your nose, is it? If you're so very concerned about this, have such deep convictions about it, then why not build your own site in your own image of wiiwd?

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Post #: 26

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:45:57 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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Hi Nefertari.

No need to project on me. You're welcome to count the number of "I thinks" and "In my opinions." I did read the site, early on when I learned how much material there was on the lifestyle on the net. It didn't damage me. Different people's mileage will vary. This doesn't mean the car's worth a damn.

Is it not ironic, that in asserting my critique is arrogant, that you must criticize my own statements? None of this is about 'right' or 'wrong' it's simply about the value we see in a tool. I liken my comments to the pros and cons of a leather verses rubber flogger, for example. A tool is just that; with good and bad. There are certainly enough supporters and detractors of the site, that I suspect there is adequate room for my own thoughts.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 27

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:49:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Direct Quotes from Castlerealm:

Getting the basics down will require time and effort on your part.

First, you should know that there is no "right" way to be a dominant.

If you are looking for an easy relationship where you are the unquestioned boss, you are in for disappointment.

Both parties have to make known to each other what their needs, desires, and limits are.

You will see that the same foundations that contribute to successful vanilla relationships are the cornerstones of D/s relationships. The problem, of course, is that most of us seek immediate gratification, rush into things, and then wonder why it didn't work out. There are no short-cuts, no way around these fundamental governing laws.

OMG how on earth have we allowed such tripe to remain unleashed into the world???

OK, I could come up with a list of dozens more, and a list of dozens of statements they say that I disagree with, that are irksome, that are silly, that are over stated.

But why demonize the whole site? Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 28

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:53:02 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

LA,

Nothing's being thrown out. I'm not advocating it be shut down in a hysteric fit. I'm saying it's lacking in many regards, and intend to point them out. Some people will agree, other's will not. Why is everyone clamoring like I'm pissing on holy stomping ground?

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 29

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:54:04 PM

trappedinamuseum

Posts: 5066
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

On the flip side of that, I don't think a person has to go through CR to have that kind of transition. Two years ago, I typed "BDSM" (or something of the like) into Google and up popped CM. I haven't looked back since. I found that this site helped me transiton into what I am, or will be in the future simply because of all the differing types of people on the site. The first time I ever looked at CR was tonight when I was sent a link to it. The site does not fit my personality at all. It was gentle and introductory and fluffy. I don't do fluffy. Had I checked it out two years ago when I was first starting to explore, I think that I would have just brushed off the lifestyle. It wouldn't have been for me. Some people benefit from the site; however I do think it is fair to say that others do not.

Though I can see the opposing points, I remain in agreement with Stephan about the usefulness of the site, and the accuracy of the D/s relatonship it portrays. It is not useful to me as a resource because it does not fit with "my" definition of BSDM. I realize everyone's definition will be different, so the usefulness of the site will be different. That's just my opinion.

_____________________________

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Don't come back for me.
Don't come back at all" - Jar of Hearts

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 30

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:54:24 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Well that would be my question, why the fuss? We could say that about ANYTHING- even collarme.

It's got good, it's got bad. Take what works for you and leave the rest.

Why did YOU choose castlerealm to start this "review series" off with? I think THAT might be a better question to examine within bdsm culture, rather than the site itself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 31

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:56:00 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Isn't railing against Castlerealm a bit like King Canute trying to turn back the tide? It is there, it exists, we have to live with it. Perhaps a better question is: how can we best assist newbies who start with Castlerealm to find other sites that will expand their knowledge and experience? There's not a lot of use pointing out a problem without suggesting a solution.

:))
LH

Who also started with Castlerealm and wasn't irretrievably damaged by it

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

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Post #: 32

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:56:12 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

LA,

We can and do say anything about CM. And everything else under the sun. What makes CR so special, that it is beyond reproach?

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 33

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:56:20 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hi Nefertari.

No need to project on me. You're welcome to count the number of "I thinks" and "In my opinions." I did read the site, early on when I learned how much material there was on the lifestyle on the net. It didn't damage me. Different people's mileage will vary. This doesn't mean the car's worth a damn.

Is it not ironic, that in asserting my critique is arrogant, that you must criticize my own statements? None of this is about 'right' or 'wrong' it's simply about the value we see in a tool. I liken my comments to the pros and cons of a leather verses rubber flogger, for example. A tool is just that; with good and bad. There are certainly enough supporters and detractors of the site, that I suspect there is adequate room for my own thoughts.

Stephan

project on you???? ROTFLMAO ....

Whose comments should I criticize....it "is" your thread and your view after all. I can only hope that I was respectful in disagreeing. If not, My sincerest apologies. But projection? LOL (really). *sigh* nope have to laugh again, too funny.

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 34

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:58:22 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
We can and do say anything about CM. And everything else under the sun. What makes CR so special, that it is beyond reproach?

Stephan

When did anyone claim CR was beyond reproach?

This is starting to sound like all the pre-Harry Potter DH hype about "Harry Potter doesn't actually make all kids want to read all the time!"

No one actually ever made that claim to begin with from what I saw. They just claimed it was a nice help that seemed to catch on to a lot of kids and could be used as a great way to get them interested in reading more.

Kinda like CR...

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 8/8/2007 9:59:00 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 35

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 9:59:20 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Reading CastleRealm to understand BDSM is like watching porn to understand woman.

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 36

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 10:05:44 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

http://www.castlerealm.com/subspace/subspace.htm

LA, I swear to god I just logged into the site and this is the first article I pulled up without knowing what was in it

quote:

The natural submissive. Also called true submissive. This type of individual seems to have been born submissive. It goes beyond the sexual aspects of the BDSM and is a normal part of their makeup. It is their nature to please others and readily relinquish their personal power with little or no urging from their dominant.

Here's another tidbit

quote:

In recent years there has been a renewed interest in the "old ways" and many are seeking a more refined method to express themselves within a D/s relationship.

What the fuck "old ways"? Fucking gay men in leather bars isn't what occurs to most people.

quote:

It would be impossible for me to cover all the things a submissive must learn in formal training

What the hell is "formal training" and my bet is she doesn't cover it cause she didn't know what the hell it was either.

The site reads like someplace Lady Hugs could be den mother of, full of bullshit and crap. It is WORSE than I remember it!

ARg.gggggg!!!!!!!11

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 37

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 10:08:57 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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I think you forgot to put this little tidbit in for CONTEXT that specifically caveated the "natural submissive" paragraph:
If you asked a hundred people you'd probably get a hundred different answers. For some it's a way to add a little more excitement to their love life. For others there may be deep, psychological reasons that go beyond my ability to understand. Based on my experience I believe there are three distinct types individuals who fall into the definition of submissive. Please understand that these are my OWN definitions and not some standard issued by the D/s community.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 10:09:21 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Thank you Michael. Exactly what I'm interested in addressing here.

LA,

Then what's wrong with us as thoughtful curious individuals making remarks on how we differ in opinion, to hers? Is it necessary to make a 'counter-castle' in order for a differing opinion to be legimate also?

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 8/8/2007 10:12:55 PM >

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 39

RE: Castlerealm; or, the meaning of BDSM Lite - 8/8/2007 10:17:44 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

LA,

It stuns me that you can't see the bias that pervades that site

quote:

Some start out as a sensual sub with little interest in pleasing anyone but themselves and end up growing into some of the most beautiful submissives in our lifestyle.

So being a sensual sub is for beginners eh? Then you turn into the fluffy sort that fart flowers and then you become one of the "most beautiful submissives"...

Makes me want to fucking throw up. I love sappy, hell I wrote the first piece of poetry for a woman I have ever written today but this stuff screams "be yourselves but the beautiful submissives do it this way"...

Its like saying, I am very open and accepting of you freaks. The bias is clear and unmistakable.

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 40

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