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Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 8:21:43 AM   
firewillow


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Hello all! i am new to the BDSM world, having been with my Master only a few months. He is an amazing friend turned Lover/Master. i am struggling right now through my insane desire to be a sub moving to slave-wife (combo of traditional slave and wife who still has some "say" in the household) one day, and the fact that while i am a sub and people pleaser, i am such an independent and strong-willed person, too ('tis the American way, eh?). i know what i want - i am very clear on my desire to learn to be EVERYTHING for Him, but evey time He pushes a boundary that has to do with me giving up independence i always have to go through a period of inner struggle before the realization of "Yes, i am still safe and loved, and i am still me."

Can anyone give me ideas or stories on how they have moved through these psychological barriers from when they were first starting out as subs?

Thank you, thank you!

firewillow
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 8:31:09 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		What sort of independance?  I can't imagine pushing someone to give up independance in many things.  Can you clarify so we can give informed opinions and thoughts?

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 8:41:26 AM   
firewillow


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Sure. It's actually really simple things like realizing i need to inform Him of where i'm going in public places. what i'm doing, etc. And the general fact that if one agrees to be a submissive she or he is agreeing to become dependent, hence giving up independence. So it's kind of past actual examples - and i'm moreso just struggling with the fact that i'm used to living alone and taking care of myself. And while i'm used to taking care of others - being the listener,/caretaker/support system for friends, it is an affront to my own independence when i think about the fact that Sir wants to actually take care of me as i serve and take care of Him. It is an amazing thing for me to want to do this so innately - it's so easy to do things for Him, but it is unnerving to me at the same time...knowing i am changing who i am and becoming more dependent upon Him for things. SO i guess i'm wondering if others went through this change - having to deal with becoming a dependent - when they first started out?

Does this help?

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 9:13:51 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: firewillow

quote:

And the general fact that if one agrees to be a submissive she or he is agreeing to become dependent, hence giving up independence.


Well, that's not always the case.  I don't make my slave give up independance to belong to me.  So it would appear you and/or your dominant have some preconceived notions.  If, though, this is how you really feel, it is up to you to discuss this.  Are there things you can compromise on?


quote:

being the listener,/caretaker/support system for friends, it is an affront to my own independence when i think about the fact that Sir wants to actually take care of me as i serve and take care of Him
.

This is a give and take in most relationships.  Can you look at it that way?  I take care of my nilla husband and he takes care of me, cause we love each other.

quote:

It is an amazing thing for me to want to do this so innately - it's so easy to do things for Him, but it is unnerving to me at the same time...knowing i am changing who i am and becoming more dependent upon Him for things
.

This takes time.  Try to enter in slowly and examine your feelings as you go.  What is it that is unnerving? Why is it so?  Maybe keep a journal.

quote:

SO i guess i'm wondering if others went through this change - having to deal with becoming a dependent - when they first started out?


Yes.  We all go through insecurities.  I reiterate make sure the two of you are on the same page about "becoming a dependant"  You can make that what you both want it to be, not some stereotype.


Good Luck!

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 9:19:41 AM   
firewillow


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Oh, i see where You are coming from now. No preconcieved notions, but actually what is desired between Him and myself. It is now the process of getting there that i am going through. Thanks so much for Your insights, earthycouple! And yes, i will keep in mind the importance of addressing all feelings and examining them fully.

firewillow

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 9:22:56 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Glad you are both on the same page about what you give up.  That's at least 2/3 of the battle.  I wish there was an end all be all answer to "feeling good all the time" about choices but we have up and down days.  Try to keep in mind that this is what you ultimately want and don't be too hard on yourself when there are days you don't want it at all.  Take a breath and remember how good yesterday was or tomorrow will be.  Ask your dominant to allow for "freaking out" time where you can come back to that level playing field, so to speak, and discuss it!

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 9:34:04 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dogs are easy to tame, some of us prefer lions.

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 10:09:00 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		I don't personally see anything wrong with being "dependent", as a submissive.  I was never an independent person to begin with, and trying to bring out this in me, would only be going against what I feel.  I mean to a certain extent, independence can be brought out, but there is nothing wrong with not being "independent" nature wise.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 10:12:39 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, i am sorry have to clarify that a bit........when I was "independent" with my job etc, and making certain decisions, I was yes "independent:, but happy??? NO!  So I am not one to say, I can be dependent on me, if I can't.  I would like to be in certain ways, but that I think is a progression that takes time.

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 10:52:13 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think we are questioning that independance or dependance is wrong or right (that's totally relative)...we are trying to help the OP find her way within her new dynamics.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to mmb1)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 4:44:27 PM   
firewillow


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmmm...i do feel more like a growler than a barker...

So here is what Master said to me today in an email as i conversed with him on the same subject:

"I think what we are working towards is loyalty and dedication, rather than dependence. girl has chosen to harness her creativity and individuality in the service of the relationship with her Master. Dependence literally interpreted is synonymous with helplessness, whereas girl's skills and talents are a great joy and asset to us as a Master/slave couple. The slave submits to her Master's orders, but her ability to carry them out effectively depends very much on how clever and creative she is."

i agree with Him, but still see the concept of dependence as different from the traditional "helpless" image it tends to paint for many. So yes, i am working on finding my way through the dynamics of this new world and am finding it is digging deeply within me and pulling at my "old ways" of being and shaking them up a LOT; and it feels envigorating and threatening and orgasmic and raw and intellectual all at the same time.

i guess, at the heart of my original question, i'm wondering whether others went through personal transformations when they became subs/slaves that changed them from how they were before - beyond the obvious. And especially what their struggles were at first  - especially mentally and emotionally.

(in reply to earthycouple)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 6:11:07 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Dogs are easy to tame, some of us prefer lions.
That's funny. Michael. My personality tests out to be a "Lioness".

I'm extremely independent and tend to be in control. Master is one of the few people that I've met that has a stronger personality than mine, which inspires submission.

It was very difficult to let some of it go. He's instituted a few things to remind me. And whenever I have difficulty, I just remind myself that I trust this man with my life (literally) and he's proven that he's worthy of that trust. It sometimes takes counting to 10 before I open my mouth, but it has gradually worked.

Key word is "gradually", it won't happen overnight.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 6:12:12 PM   
KiandPhoenix


Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		I know that I went through that struggle in the beginning and sometimes still do. I'm afraid that by giving up control I'm giving up part of my self. At those times I just have to remind myself what it is I'm working towards and what I'm gaining. Also getting reassurance from my Dom is a big help.
~Phoenix

(in reply to firewillow)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 6:17:10 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Why do you look at being a slave as losing Independence? I serve and obey Master as he wants but I am still me and don't consider myself dependant on him for every little thing. I make alot of decisions on my own. Being a slave doesn't necessarily mean you lose Independence as I see it. I think you both have views that you need to look into more fully. If you are unsure of something or a feeling you have then you should talk to your Master about it. It is a mutual relationship not a one sided one.

There were some things in the beginning I had trouble adapting to but with help from my dominant at the time it made the adjustment easier. Never think of it as losing yourself , you are just growing and learning.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 8/9/2007 6:19:27 PM >

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 7:20:18 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i'm a submissive and very independent  person usually running a very tight calendar.  i have yet to give up my independence for a life a micro-managed control ...and i never will because that's not Daddy's thing and He does have calendar between private practice and other interests. i do inform Daddy of my daily schedule (ie when i'm interviewing/reviewing bands or taking my oldest to her therapy appts) however He doesn't use it to keep tabs on my whereabouts.    

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/9/2007 8:53:12 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Instead of pushing harder when I hit a wall, he stopped and moved to something else. Usually when he returned to whatever had been the problem some months before we discovered it no longer was. And we talked about it a lot when I hit the wall and after that when I initiated a discussion on it.

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/10/2007 7:25:01 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		I struggled with this in my last relationship and the one thing that really, really helped was to say "Can we try this for a week/month, and then reevalute" because usually it wasn't something that was a big deal, but to say "I will always do this for the rest of my life" was terrifying.  Once I had tried it, it didn't feel like a huge issue.  One of the things I actually grew to really love.  There was one thing we have a month trial, and I could do it for a month, but I just couldn't do it indefinitely.  But then, I'm single again, so not sure if my advice is the best....

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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/10/2007 5:00:18 PM   
jssubc


Posts: 46
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		i struggled with this a lot. i worried that while i was "giving ground" to Mistress and doing my best to meet Her wishes i agonized that i was becoming a person that Mistress would not respect. i still worry about this though not nearly to the same extent and eventually just came to accept that Mistress really did want my submission in as deep a way as She could get it.What i learned was that i had to trust Mistress and accept the fact that what Mistress was asking of me was what i wanted to give, and to just relax accept that this life was what i truly wanted.

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/10/2007 5:32:59 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firewillow

Sure. It's actually really simple things like realizing i need to inform Him of where i'm going in public places. what i'm doing, etc. And the general fact that if one agrees to be a submissive she or he is agreeing to become dependent, hence giving up independence.

I really don't view it as giving up independence. To actually give up my independence, to me, would mean I could never say "Fuck this, you've turned into a complete asshole and are nothing like the man I agreed to submit to and fell in love with. I'm out." Which I won't give up and nor would he allow me to.
quote:



So it's kind of past actual examples - and i'm moreso just struggling with the fact that i'm used to living alone and taking care of myself. And while i'm used to taking care of others - being the listener,/caretaker/support system for friends, it is an affront to my own independence when i think about the fact that Sir wants to actually take care of me as i serve and take care of Him.

Sorry can't help there either. I really like it when people respect me as an independent women but also want to take care of me.
quote:


It is an amazing thing for me to want to do this so innately - it's so easy to do things for Him, but it is unnerving to me at the same time...knowing i am changing who i am and becoming more dependent upon Him for things. SO i guess i'm wondering if others went through this change - having to deal with becoming a dependent - when they first started out?

Does this help?


I think every sub has had growing pains, so to speak, and everyone's pains are different. Mine are mostly around being told when to go to bed, how to fix a meal when I prefer it another way. The small stuff really. He trusts me to go where I should go and stay out of trouble. If I'm out and about he really doesn't care where as long as I don't get into trouble. For me, the hardest part is not getting to watch what I want to on TV if he wants to watch something different. I don't know why but it frustrates me to no end. I've gotten better but things still annoy me from time to time.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to firewillow)
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RE: Aaahhh....struggling through loss of independence... - 8/11/2007 10:00:13 AM   
twistedkytten


Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		my dependence on my Master is more on the emotional level, and that i struggle with a great deal as i have never 'needed' anything from anyone.. yet i find i need His dominance.. i adore it in fact.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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