Consensually against your will (Full Version)

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Smythe -> Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 8:58:53 PM)


I was just reading a thread about a certain DS activity, and it is one that I like!! But I like it a whole lot more now that I know that my boy likes doing it too. He would do it even if he didn't like it, most likely, but then it wouldn't be as much fun for me.

On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Smythe



thetammyjo -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 9:05:29 PM)

I think that's called SM with my current slave.

It isn't that I get pleasure from making him do something he doesn't like but more that I get pleasure from doing what I want, in other words by being the owner. I think we mutually get pleasure from this reenforcement of our authority dynamic.

I'm betting that even if he hated the food, the sub you mentioned in the OP got pleasure from the situation.

Words are often lacking to describe what it is that we do in SM and Ds because our connotations may differ from the mainstream definitions.



kiyari -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 9:21:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe


I was just reading a thread about a certain DS activity, and it is one that I like!! But I like it a whole lot more now that I know that my boy likes doing it too. He would do it even if he didn't like it, most likely, but then it wouldn't be as much fun for me.

On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Smythe



From the outside (of D/s) looking in, this does seem a common motif here in forums.

It is a large part of what I just do not understand, about the 'dynamic'.

The 'inferior' (sub/slave) must needs continually jump through hoops,
be required to do things known to be abhorrent to them...

...just saying: this is what I see

Not making any judgement calls LOL so, no flames por favor!



SusanofO -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 9:53:39 PM)

The only thing I can think of is "making" them have sex - other stuff, no.

- Susan



LadyHeart -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 9:59:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.


Hmmm.... wonder why he's not your sub any more...?
Seriously, the occasional activity "just because you can" is fun, but if the balance tips into a dynamic where the sub is always on the raw end of the deal, they generally vote with their feet.

:))
LH



ClandestinedOne -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 9:59:57 PM)

In one of my switch modes i had a girl shove her thumb up her ass and suck on it. XP
I enjoyed most hearing her pleas of "no, please no".  Since it was on the phone, she didn't have to do it, persay, but though she didn't want to, she obeyed.  THAT was the sexy part.



velvetears -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 10:18:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.


Hmmm.... wonder why he's not your sub any more...?
Seriously, the occasional activity "just because you can" is fun, but if the balance tips into a dynamic where the sub is always on the raw end of the deal, they generally vote with their feet.

:))
LH


i agree... a steady diet of having to do things i hated and i would be gone.



gentlethistle -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/9/2007 10:38:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

From the outside (of D/s) looking in, this does seem a common motif here in forums.

It is a large part of what I just do not understand, about the 'dynamic'.

The 'inferior' (sub/slave) must needs continually jump through hoops,
be required to do things known to be abhorrent to them...

...just saying: this is what I see

Not making any judgement calls LOL so, no flames por favor!


kiyari

On the face of it, this may seem peculiar to you....that anyone might actively seek out or be enthusiastic to perform something that they definitely don't like (in the action's own right).  But think of it, perhaps, in the context of a vanilla couple deciding what to watch on TV or where to go to eat.  Can you not imagine there being a perfectly 'normal' urge to sacrifice to the other's preferences....for the partner's pleasure....which in turn makes the person giving up their own preferences happy to know that the other will be happy (whether it's eating Italian rather than vindaloo, or watching golf rather than a Jane Austen costume drama etc etc).  The parental instinct is another arena in which 'sacrifice' of one's own pleasure is regarded as entirely normal. 

Personally, I see submissiveness as a sort of spectrum, rather than some sort of binary state that you either have or have not.  But then I suspect sexual orientation is that way too.  Social conditioning will probably tend to polarise people towards their own tendancies because they will be more likely to seek out relationships that enforce them [Edited to add that I meant 'reinforce' them...but the Freudian slip is quite funny] (perhaps...it's early in the morning, I'm probably talking tosh!)

Laura

P.S.  Actually, personally, I'm not continually being asked to do things that are abhorent to me...although I may occassionally be asked to do things that I don't feel inclined to at the time...but that's just my own particular situation...other relationships will differ. 



BeachMystress -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 2:03:51 AM)

I never make my sub do something he dislikes just because I can. I have to actually desire the activity or result produced. If I wish the activity or result, as long as it isn't on his list of hard limits it doesn't matter if he likes it or not.  Matter of fact, earlier in our relationship I purposefully didn't find out his most or least favorite activities.  I knew from our first meeting that he was someone I could fall in love with and didn't want to influence how I treated him as I fell in love. I waited until the relationship was stable and I knew I'd not let my newly tender feelings stop me from doing things he might not like. I wanted our relationship to develop as a full TPE one, and took steps to ensure such.



Wheldrake -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 2:38:37 AM)

I've always thought that taking pleasure in inflicting unpleasantness on another person was the essence of sadism. The unpleasantness could be pain, of course, but forcing the lucky victim to eat the worst thing on the menu ought to qualify - a more subtle approach, if less dramatic. As a submissive, my idea of a good time is a situation in which I really, really don't like what is happening, but have no means of escape, other than perhaps a safeword for genuine emergencies. It's not just a matter of wanting to sacrifice myself for another person's pleasure: I get actual excitement and satisfaction from the experience of suffering, and from being made to do things that I would prefer not to. I don't know how common this approach is, but it certainly works for me. On the other hand, I wouldn't want life to become one long string of torments, miseries, and inconveniences. I'd never get anything done.



Stephann -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 4:32:10 AM)

It's a question of context.  I've never heard of a masochist who looked forward to going to the dentist for a root canal.  Think your slaves tough?  Tell em you're going to pull their teeth with pliars.

Personally, I consider myself a Sadist; I enjoy making a masochist squirm.  I enjoy adding fear to the exchange.  What I don't enjoy, is the look on her face when it's so beyond her desires or expectations that it just makes her sick to think of it.  In all of my sadistic activities, I think I need to implant a 'hook' for the masochist, to be drawn into it.  That's what makes me different from the dentist.

So, for me, that means I enjoy using an axe during a scene.... but I wouldn't enjoy ordering them to eat their least favorite food for lunch.

Stephan



RavenMuse -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 5:24:58 AM)

When it is easy it is just easy, when it is hard thats when there is something to really submit too!

Hell yes I enjoy it, something where the ONLY possitive thing they get out of it is that it is FOR ME. Raw submission. Lovely

I however quite agree with those who have commented that if that is all they got then they would walk... so they should as the Dominant wouldn't be addressing the vast majority of there needs and in a relationship BOTH sets of needs are important....In the overall scheme of things I try to ensure the needs of My girl are met just as much as I ensure Mine are. Thats more 'big picture' type assement.

But any particular moment, 'small picture', I can and will have them do anything that doesn't harm them wether they like it or not just because thats what *I* want, that is what she submits to.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 7:18:03 AM)

Only when it comes to pain play.

Otherwise, I can enjoy that they are doing it because it needs to get done, and enjoy that they are listening and abiding by my wisdom, but I'm not getting pleasure out of knowing they are disliking it- I want to INCREASE joy in their life as much as possible. 



earthycouple -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 7:27:10 AM)

I'm always happier when we are both enjoying.  Though I do enjoy a sadistic aspect of scaring someone or making them nervous.  I do things that people say..."um ok, little concerned here, but you are the dominant" and that's cool...specially when they realize when it is over they loved the rush too.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 7:33:07 AM)

Yes, I enjoy making a submissive do something "just because I can".  I believe that it helps to reinforce the D/s dynamic and, as a sadist, it gives me a definite pleasure to see the "squirm" over certain activities.  There is also the idea that submission is not always about "being made" to do what you would do anyway...sometimes it is about doing it even when you do not like it/want to but in order to please the dominant, broaden your submission, and grow the dynamic.

That being said, it is not something I indulge in lightly or without thought nor is it something I "shoot for" each day.  That seems to me like a very quick way to make the type of submissive I enjoy stop enjoying me and head for the door. 



Grlwithboy -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 7:39:46 AM)

Absolutely. Not just things they hate but sometimes things that are completely absurd or stupid. Because I can.

I get to be an egomaniac sometimes because I want to. My slave, H, had to design a head-harness to hold a toilet brush and scrub his out like that. Totally pointless except I laughed heartily, and he likes having the job of making me laugh.




slaveluci -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 8:25:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Only if it's something that is going to bring Him pleasure.  Master never does anything to me or has me do anything just because it's unpleasant for me.  In His opinion, that's just doing it to flaunt authority or "prove" that He can and He sees absolutely no point in that.  It's just not necessary.
 
However.....if there's something that He enjoys that is unpleasant for me, too bad for me.  It's going to happen[;)].  So, yes He does enjoy "making" me do things I don't like only if those things also bring Him pleasure.  Making me eat something gross just isn't His idea of a good time, especially since He doesn't have a vomit fetish[:'(]..............luci




BrutalMasterOne -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 8:53:15 AM)

Well duh, of course. Consent is a strange thing. It is given but if not "forced" to do things you don't want to, or don't like, then is one a slave at all? So many, it seems to me are "tops, doms, Masters" who actually serve the slave. It should be and HAS to be the other way around. (at least for me)



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 9:07:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalMasterOne
Well duh, of course. Consent is a strange thing. It is given but if not "forced" to do things you don't want to, or don't like, then is one a slave at all? So many, it seems to me are "tops, doms, Masters" who actually serve the slave. It should be and HAS to be the other way around. (at least for me)

IMO all good healthy people want to serve themselves and others in the world.  It has nothing to do with Ms. 

Service does not equal submission.  Many great masters provide service for their slaves.



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Consensually against your will (8/10/2007 9:29:28 AM)

I Consent there for I AM



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