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Profound submission requires unfinished emotional devel... - 7/3/2005 7:23:07 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I like to wander around and glance at profiles when I'm bored. I came accross this in someone's profile and wanted to ask for other's opinions on it.

(It is written from the POV of someone's mentor who wrote the person's profile for her,)

"Also like all profound submissives, X' emotional development was never completed and will never be. I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top. Her intellectual and psychological development are, however, fully adult."

I don't understand this statement, so I have a couple questions.
1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

Thanks for your input.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

Post #: 1

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 7:52:52 PM

dominmd

Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

1. To me it would mean that they have never really completed developing into an emotional adult. Beats me on this one. Many of us have some sort of repressed emotions that have not either been tapped or released. The real question is ............Do we ever really develop all of our emotions and the means to express them to fellow people?

2. I have no clue. I switch, I can be a sub. I consider myself fully developed, but needing guidance sometimes even at my age ........cough cough 30 cough cough:) I can completely submit to my partner. I hand her total control over me. But this is only if there is PROFOUND Trust in the relationship.

3. Beats the heck out of me, sound like the dom is a psyciatrist or something.

4. Not in my mind they cannot. How can you have intellect and the psychology of an adult without the emotional development? It makes no sense to me, but I am not a doctor.

5. I think the truth lies with the individuals that have contact with this person that is the sub. I have encountered immature indivduals everywhere regardless of age.

I just really feel sad for the sub. To have a person say this about you has to be psychologically damaging. There is no love, or caring that I can see. I could never say this to a person, and I care for any sub that I have in a relationship. To do so would just be......................wrong to me.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 2

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 8:07:59 PM

pleasureforHim

Posts: 171
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

"Also like all profound submissives, X' emotional development was never completed and will never be. I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top. Her intellectual and psychological development are, however, fully adult."

He sounds alot like the abusive men i used to run across in my volunteer work.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/3/2005 8:17:26 PM >

(in reply to dominmd)

Post #: 3

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 8:16:08 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

This is the drill of an abusive man..you are worthkess..you are stupid...you cannot survive on your own...dressed up as D/s ..this man is abusing this woman emotionally and in other ways...mark my words.

I need to put in a little more informaton, it seems.

The rest of the profile was highly complimentary and didn't raise my hackles at all. It described the woman in glowing terms. The fact that her profile was written by a "mentor" was weird to me, but the rest of the profile -was- nice, and said really good things about her.

I don't want to give any more information about it, because I don't want to identify it.

It was just this sentiment that confused and disturbed me.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to pleasureforHim)

Post #: 4

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 8:19:09 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

This question should be directed to the one that posted the profile. I find the statement a bit cryptic actually.

quote:

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

It wouldn't. Again, the one that wrote this should answer this question.

quote:

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

Let me stop sucking my thumb and turn off Barney and I will answer this.

quote:

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

I would think the answer to this would be no... but I am not a professional psychologist.

quote:

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

Without knowing what exactly the writer intended to try to convey it is impossible for me to judge the validity. But at face value I think it is a dumb statement. There are emotionally well adjusted submissives that I have encountered, in fact, most are. Whenever someone speaks in absolutes (every Dominant, all submissives) it raises a red flag for me and I question why someone would feel that way. After all, how would they know if it applied to "all submissives?" I find it hard to believe that they have met every submissive in the world.

Edited to add: I think emotional and psychological development is an ongoing thing therefore no one has ever completely developed emotions. Emotional responses and psychological outlooks can be changed and are not cast in stone.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 7/3/2005 8:27:49 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 5

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 8:58:42 PM

Raphael

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

Well, our emotional set does have a developmental frame, like our mental and physical sets.

quote:

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

It's a fairly common theory that submissives are as they are because they have for some reason arrested their development at a childish stage, needing a dominant to serve as a surrogate parent.

quote:

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

Age 4

Age 5

Ages 6-8

Look for the sections titled Social and Emotional Development.

quote:

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

Sure.

quote:

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

I do think there's a kernel of truth to it.

I don't agree with the tone of the quote, the use of the word 'all' and the implications I (perhaps wrongly) am guessing lay behind it. I don't think ALL submissives are cases of arrested development. I do think that submissives generally show some features of what I would refer to as 'emotional/social neotany' - that is, they often do retain some traits typical of an earlier stage of development in those aspects. That doesn't mean they're stunted (I do fear I've met some that were, but that doesn't mean all) it just means they're different in a particular way. It can be a good or bad thing. Many of the features that distinguish humans from the great apes are also examples of neotany, it's definately NOT always a bad thing.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 6

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 9:00:42 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I don't understand this statement, so I have a couple questions.
1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

Probably some variant of "We're always growing into who we will become"

quote:

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

It's not, but subs like to feel vulnerable and guided by stronger/more capable dominants, so those are the traits that get highlighted in subs and not much examined in doms (much to the detriment of all involved)

quote:

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

It's either an age play reference, or it means simply being at the point of speaking and aware of the world around you, but with very little control over it.

quote:

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

Absolutely, in face there ARE young teens with college degrees. What we consider EQ- emotional quotient can be sadly lacking in those of extreme intelligence. In fact if one has abnormally high intellectual and psychological aptitudes, that itself can cause problems growing emotionally.

quote:

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

Thanks for your input.

I think it's another version of a romanticized idea to make subs feel warm and cuddly.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 7

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 9:13:40 PM

zaynab

Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

i dont have a clue as to what that could mean.....

i remember my older sister telling me that our father stopped his emotional development when he was 8 years old, but i think she was just mad at him at the time.....

of course she's been telling me that for the past 30 years....

*shrugging shoulders....

whoever this person is that is getting written about, i feel sorry for her that her Dom views her like that and puts it in her profile like that. ~ zay

< Message edited by zaynab -- 7/3/2005 9:17:53 PM >

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 8

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 9:18:56 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zaynab
whoever this person is that is getting written about, i feel sorry for her that her Dom views her like that and puts it in her profile like that. ~ zay

It is her mentor/protector, FYI.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to zaynab)

Post #: 9

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 9:43:46 PM

siamsa24

Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline

I was told by a psychologist that I am not fully emotionally developed, and that I may never be. I am fully intellectually and physically matured, but have the emotions of a young child (he placed it somewhere between 3 and 5). I have a curiosity about the world and everything in it (I like to touch things, poke things, splash any water I can find, things like that), I am afraid of strangers and hate having to go anywhere alone (I get lost easily in large places like stores and amusement parks, this often brings me to tears and I wander around until I am found), I am afraid of the dark and cannot sleep alone, and the list could go on and on.
Most people that I meet think there is something "different" about me, but they can't really place it. People don't expect a normally mature and smart individual to react with the emotions of a young child.
The psychologist wanted me to go on some kind of medication and group therapy and all sorts of things, but I cannot afford such things. Personally, I like the way that I am, I don't want to be all serious and boring, and my partner likes the way that I am too.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 10

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 9:58:49 PM

SteelBondager

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline

Many long years ago I ran a BDSM site (no, I won't say which one) that had a similar ad for this person. There was a website at the time for "Molly", but not much more information than there is here. Same deal.

It is unusual and doesn't feel quite right, but I've been told that it is for real.

(in reply to siamsa24)

Post #: 11

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 10:26:46 PM

CalliopePurple

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

A good friend and father figure once told me he thought I had a child's way of reacting to things because, under extreme stress or emotion of any kind, I either cry or completely clam up. I don't see anything wrong with it although some think it's odd to see a 19 year old who cries out of frustration when she's accidentally locked out of the house (which actually happened today x_x)

I don't think that submission -requires- it, but in the cases of people that are emotionally incomplete, they may be more likely to be drawn to D/s as a way to find a way of completing emotional development and if the need for protection is strong, the person will most likely end up exploring as a submissive.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to SteelBondager)

Post #: 12

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/3/2005 11:03:27 PM

Raphael

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

This is very interesting. I did a little digging around and found this exact same text posted on 4 different sites, with the same username on 3 (the 4th doesn't appear to show a username.)

One of these locates her in Georgia, another in Ontario, Canada, the other two give no location.

This set off some alarm bells for me, as I've seen in the past similar postings that were eventually shown to be part of a con game.

However, it's perfectly possible she's simply moved from one place to the other. The profile here, unlike the others, seems to be maintained, it's been logged into recently and there are journal entries, including the news of her mentor/protectors tragic death.

Anyway... interesting.

I have to say if I imagine the 'perfect' sub for me, she can be startlingly childish, but in good ways, and she's not an emotional cripple.

(in reply to SteelBondager)

Post #: 13

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 12:09:27 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I've seen it before too, but don't remember exactly where. I think it was slaveauction.com? Her "protector" was going to auction her to her permanent owner. It would have been a couple of years ago in that case. I really don't remember exactly.

(in reply to Raphael)

Post #: 14

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 12:42:57 AM

mantis65

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

Even though I am an artist and in some ways remain a childlike adult I am not naive or foolish. It’s hard to say what the truth is here. I see myself as childlike in some ways but never helpless or in need of a Domme for protection.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 15

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 6:29:19 AM

Isolde

Posts: 213
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Status: offline

Ahh, I've seen that. If I'm remembering correctly, her mentor was Jon Jacobs and over the years several people have raised questions about whether or not he was abusing his role as mentor to many submissive women. He and his slave, Polly Peachum, had been accused of pushing their own version of 'One True Wayism'. Their website was one of the first I saw when I was nineteen and out hunting for information on why I felt the way I did.

What would happen with his mentees is that he would oversee their attempts to find a 24/7 master/owner, controlling everything these women responded to, said, did, etc. The theory was that he seemed to enjoy extending his control, in a way, over the dominants who would have to contact him to get to the submissive. If they didn't jump pretty strict hoops, too bad for them and most (if not all) would fail because of the bar he set. Meanwhile the submissives who looked up to him adored him. The word 'brainwashing' was bandied about more than once and he had a number of very loud disagreements with people who involved themselves in the public BDSM scene. He didn't like the scene.

He died in November of 2004, I think.

1. I think he's implying that submissives deal with emotional pain in a way appropriate to the age they stopped maturing at. So they may cry, or run away (avoidant), or beg and scrape to rewin approval, or who knows what else. That was one of his pet theories, that all submissives had stunted emotional growth.

2. Jacobs was a kink-friendly counsellor (I'm not sure if he actually had a degree in psychology or not) so I'm willing to bet he'd have pointed to early abuse and/or the extreme need to please that many submissives feel.

3. I haven't studied psychology, I'm not sure what these would be. Maybe inability to cope with conflict, the desire to please, the need to have someone stronger to look up to...

4. Probably.

5. Anything is possible and there are probably people out there who are submissive, who are like this. Every submissive woman? No.

(in reply to mantis65)

Post #: 16

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 6:42:12 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I like to wander around and glance at profiles when I'm bored. I came accross this in someone's profile and wanted to ask for other's opinions on it.

(It is written from the POV of someone's mentor who wrote the person's profile for her,)

"Also like all profound submissives, X' emotional development was never completed and will never be. I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top. Her intellectual and psychological development are, however, fully adult."

I don't understand this statement, so I have a couple questions.
1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

Thanks for your input.

---------

quote:

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

--------

it sounds like a contradiction, to most people, i'll grant you that.
but yes, to a point. as someone already pointed out, repressed emotions.
there are some i have met in life, that are full adults, and act and speak as adults, but emotionally are stunted.

the wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 17

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 6:54:43 AM

petcerina

Posts: 143
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

After reading all the posts, my response may seem a bit out there or completely wrong all together, but i viewed the "I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top" on a scale of 1-10. If that is the case, i don't see anything horribly appaling at the statement. If 10 is the best, and 1 the worst, and i'm in the upper half most of the time i consider that a pretty glowing statement :). Again, after reading the posts and getting a better idea of who this person was, i'm probably wrong, but just to throw another option into the board, i'd thought i would write this out anyway.

(in reply to Isolde)

Post #: 18

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 2:00:01 PM

pleasureforHim

Posts: 171
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

This is very interesting. I did a little digging around and found this exact same text posted on 4 different sites, with the same username on 3 (the 4th doesn't appear to show a username.)

Note to self: believe everything told to me on the net, particularly about people who claim to need to be rescued, and get all excited each time. Same theory Pavlov used.

pleasureforHim

(in reply to petcerina)

Post #: 19

RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 3:20:37 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petcerina

After reading all the posts, my response may seem a bit out there or completely wrong all together, but i viewed the "I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top" on a scale of 1-10. If that is the case, i don't see anything horribly appaling at the statement. If 10 is the best, and 1 the worst, and i'm in the upper half most of the time i consider that a pretty glowing statement :). Again, after reading the posts and getting a better idea of who this person was, i'm probably wrong, but just to throw another option into the board, i'd thought i would write this out anyway.

It is age, not on a scale. Her emotional age is age 4 to age 9 ish.

I'd like to state that hwen I posted this, I knew nothing about this person or her history etc. I just felt weird about the statement and wanted to hear what others had to say. I'm going to do a little reading now, and see if I can find out more stuff for myself.

Regardless, I still think the statment is...not nice.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to petcerina)

Post #: 20

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