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RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 7/6/2005 9:57:33 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

I believe that women who are in touch with themselves and are aware of their limitations seek out stronger men for security and support.


quote:

I agree with you kc692 that I am speaking in very general terms, and if you are an exception, then so be it. That does not detract from the point I was making. You feel that men and women are equally strong. I feel that all available evidence points to a different conclusion. Let us agree to disagree.


But how do you know that kc692 IS an exception?
Have you bothered to hold a census?
From what I see just from this forum alone, is that the hig percentage of women come here are not 'looking for a stronger men for security and support' - because they can indeed support themselves.

I am one of those women.

I could list a whole amount of women - but would not wish to embarress them.
I can comprehend that you believe these things and yes, you can easily state that ' lets agree to disagree' - but it isn't one of those topics - I you could be bothered to find the facts behind the thoughts - your opinion may alter because of the facts available to you. It really doesn't take that much effort.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to strikingamatch)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 7/6/2005 10:01:57 AM   
strikingamatch


Posts: 24
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim


One word to striking match before i turn my attention elsehere: the fallacy of your argument is that it assumes an entire cluster of behaviors and attributes is divided or shared between people based upon their sex, from birth. There simply is no credible empiricial evidence for this hypothesis, nor will there ever be. We now know that, apart from identical twins, everyone's DNA is different. If women do not share DNA markers (apart from those that make them develop female sexual characteristics), then how can they be herded into any meaningful group? You deny environmental factors: discrimination, male stranglehold on CEO positions of major corporations, and other obvious explanations as to why women still earn about 75 cents of every dollar a man earns for the same job.




The evidence is staring at us in the face. The question is only how to interpret that evidence. I am aware of the discrimination against females, the stranglehold men have on positions of power and so on. That is precisely the point I am making. I interpret that reality as evidence of women's weakness. Until I hear a totally convincing argument that nurture is responsible for the above discrepancies, I shall continue to adhere to, what seems to me, the most reasonable explanation.

As to your objection based on DNA. One could very easily make an argument that the lack of the y-chromosome in your average female is the reason for these discrepancies.

(in reply to pleasureforHim)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 7/6/2005 10:09:51 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strikingamatch

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim


One word to striking match before i turn my attention elsehere: the fallacy of your argument is that it assumes an entire cluster of behaviors and attributes is divided or shared between people based upon their sex, from birth. There simply is no credible empiricial evidence for this hypothesis, nor will there ever be. We now know that, apart from identical twins, everyone's DNA is different. If women do not share DNA markers (apart from those that make them develop female sexual characteristics), then how can they be herded into any meaningful group? You deny environmental factors: discrimination, male stranglehold on CEO positions of major corporations, and other obvious explanations as to why women still earn about 75 cents of every dollar a man earns for the same job.




The evidence is staring at us in the face. The question is only how to interpret that evidence. I am aware of the discrimination against females, the stranglehold men have on positions of power and so on. That is precisely the point I am making. I interpret that reality as evidence of women's weakness. Until I hear a totally convincing argument that nurture is responsible for the above discrepancies, I shall continue to adhere to, what seems to me, the most reasonable explanation.

As to your objection based on DNA. One could very easily make an argument that the lack of the y-chromosome in your average female is the reason for these discrepancies.



Actually, when I worked in a genetics labratory one summer during high school, I learned some of the things that the y chromosome is responsible for. For example, a birth defect when there is one x and two y chromosomes in a human result in huge increases in aggression, and dulling of the intelligence. Not a flame, a truth. So, according to your deductive reasoning, what would the y chromosome contribute, especially in excess????

(in reply to strikingamatch)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 7/6/2005 10:41:23 AM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

You obviously have no conception of homosexuality or bisexual in Ds then, or the female dom/male sub component.


Yes, I am curious too to hear his perception on Lesbians and Gay men.
Also how would your ignorant "rules" apply to Transexuals and Hermaphordites?
You never know there may have been men who have won prestigious awards
who were really Not men at all!

And I agree, with Em, the number of awards to men has a lot more to do with denial of access to women as apposed to superiority and/or genis of men.


*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 7/14/2005 4:08:58 PM   
Dragonzaymaster


Posts: 72
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Wow! A whole lot of intellectual conversation going on. My favorite is the comparing of IQ's. Who gives a rats furry butt what someones IQ is. I would guess for an example Donal Trumps IQ is quite high but he does not have one any heart, two the common sense of a grapefruit. I would perfer a conversation with Forrest Gump than a room full of "high IQ people". What snobbery and arrogance. Wonder what my IQ is...........don't care.

(in reply to brightspot)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/19/2005 6:08:38 PM   
klefths


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692
Hell, there are tavernas in Athens that still do not allow women inside. (nurture problem maybe?)


excuse me!
with all the respect kc692, who the hell told you that there are tavernas in greece who dont allow women to come inside? and in athens too? are you sure? with 160 iq you really belive someone who try to run a business will keep out the half of his costumers? for what? do you think any greek man will go into one of those tavernas? to do what? look at other greeks mustaches? comparing theyr muscles? applying for the next "worrying beads" swinging competition or participating at the walking stick marathon?
maybe you are living away from greece for more than a century, i must inform you that there are no such places in athens or in the villages anymore. women are everywhere and we like them to be everywhere, with some exeptions of religius places which i personaly find stupit and narrowminded. if you are talking about cafes, yes there are places only men will go, but that is because women are not interested to go there and sit all day drinking kofees and ouzos, playing cards and backgammon, but those places are dying day by day, you will not see anyone below 50 years inside, young people avoiding those places like cancer. and that is not only here in greece, i saw places like that allover europe. germany, holland, belgium, swiss, england, france, spain, portugal, turkey have some of those little dead cafes with only old wrinkled local men sitting inside, are those the places you want to visit? why not go to museums? there will be anciend things there too!
i am in my 40s and very dominant, but i enjoy seeing women around me going on with theyr lives, i dont care if they like to be dom or sub or sluts or nuns, the worst place i can imagine living in, would be a world without any women. for the rest, about nobel prizes, drug prescriptions and convicted criminals you are apsolutely right.
sorry for the way i reacted, it is not personal, but i live in this country after being away for 16 years, so i choose to be back here, and i can not stand it when people spreading the wrong information regarding the place i am living.

greetings from greece,
have fun and stay preety,
klefths

ps. excuse my english, i am in any case a simple greek man with an iq of 69.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/19/2005 9:29:48 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: klefths


quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692
Hell, there are tavernas in Athens that still do not allow women inside. (nurture problem maybe?)


excuse me!
with all the respect kc692, who the hell told you that there are tavernas in greece who dont allow women to come inside? and in athens too? are you sure? with 160 iq you really belive someone who try to run a business will keep out the half of his costumers? for what? do you think any greek man will go into one of those tavernas? to do what? look at other greeks mustaches? comparing theyr muscles? applying for the next "worrying beads" swinging competition or participating at the walking stick marathon?
maybe you are living away from greece for more than a century, i must inform you that there are no such places in athens or in the villages anymore. women are everywhere and we like them to be everywhere, with some exeptions of religius places which i personaly find stupit and narrowminded. if you are talking about cafes, yes there are places only men will go, but that is because women are not interested to go there and sit all day drinking kofees and ouzos, playing cards and backgammon, but those places are dying day by day, you will not see anyone below 50 years inside, young people avoiding those places like cancer. and that is not only here in greece, i saw places like that allover europe. germany, holland, belgium, swiss, england, france, spain, portugal, turkey have some of those little dead cafes with only old wrinkled local men sitting inside, are those the places you want to visit? why not go to museums? there will be anciend things there too!
i am in my 40s and very dominant, but i enjoy seeing women around me going on with theyr lives, i dont care if they like to be dom or sub or sluts or nuns, the worst place i can imagine living in, would be a world without any women. for the rest, about nobel prizes, drug prescriptions and convicted criminals you are apsolutely right.
sorry for the way i reacted, it is not personal, but i live in this country after being away for 16 years, so i choose to be back here, and i can not stand it when people spreading the wrong information regarding the place i am living.

greetings from greece,
have fun and stay preety,
klefths

ps. excuse my english, i am in any case a simple greek man with an iq of 69.





Calle nichta,(spelled phonetically) klefths. I had to go back and read my post, as this thread was old, but let me see if I can elaborate and clarify some of my statements.

I was wrong in naming the tavernas instead of the cafes. But my points still remain. Although becoming antiquated, and although I would not want to go there, those places DO exist. I have not visited Greece since 1990, but, I assure you, from my viewpoint as a female, there was a difference in treatment, from the hind slapping to other occurrences. I am not flaming the Greek people, and I'm sure you are correct that many countries have similar viewpoints, I only spoke of the one that I experienced first hand.


I doubt seriously that you have an iq of 69, you seem very intelligent, . I also want to state that I truly cherish my Greek heritage, and still observe some of the Greek customs, the grandchildren know basic words (they are only 1,2, and 4) in Greek. There is a difference in my opinion on how women and men are viewed and treated,even though sometimes subconciously, not a flame, in my opinion the truth. This becomes less practiced over time, and may one day probably will phase out, as you seem to suggest. I have a question to ask and am not trying to start a flame war, but trying to illustrate my point. I would like to ask you, on a discussion board such as this, if you were addressing a man's comments, would you have finished with this closing remark?

greetings from greece,
have fun and stay preety,
klefths


Again, sometimes it is not realized that the appearance has been given about the ideal of differences between the genders, it just does.

Edited to add emoticon

< Message edited by kc692 -- 8/19/2005 9:31:17 PM >

(in reply to klefths)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/20/2005 5:49:08 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I am not happy about inequality in industry, the corporate world or in the work place and academia generally. Yet on the other side of the coin I have seen on many occasions where both sexes are working on the same job all with equal status and equal pay and yet some of the women have played upon their femaleness and expected men to take up the slack and do the parts of the women’s jobs which (they are able to do it) which they just don’t want to do. Its people like that which causes sexist tension in such work places.

quote:

Have You never had to care for a man when they are sick? Geez...


I’ve nursed my wife when she is ill just as she nurses me when I am ill. We have equality even though I am the head of the house. I’m just more dominant and we live a Gorean lifestyle. Does this make her inferior? No bloody way nelly! We are equal. There are times or aspects in the house when she is superior and others where I am superior. This superiority is skill and knowledge based not gender based.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/20/2005 11:22:47 AM   
night101owl


Posts: 83
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline 		"I believe males in general are stronger than females. Stronger physically (obvious), mentally (how many female winners of the Nobel prize are there?) and emotionally (better able to handle stress and challenges). "


34 women have won the Nobel Prize. But if you look at the recipients of recent MacArthur Foundation "Genius" grants (which is based on genius rather than achievement), the fields are fairly balanced. And I don't mean to flame you, but I know several women who are stronger than the average male, and most women are better physically adapted to dealing with stress (higher pain tolerance, better communication skills, etc.). I expect that I'm smarter than you, though with you in Israel, we probably haven't taken any of the same standardized tests, which would give us some basis to compare. On my GRE, my analytical score was 800 out of 800 (which qualifies me for Mensa, if I were interested in a singles group for nerds). I haven't taken a plain IQ test since I was a child. While men may have more muscular strength than women, most studies have shown that gender is not a factor in intelligence capabilities.

In any case, if it comforts you to believe that your gender makes you special, it's not my intent to take that away from you.

As for the original post-- obviously, there are folks in BDSM who believe that gender dictates their roles, one way or another. I'm a dyke. Gender really doesn't determine anything in my circles! Although it would be interesting to see what the local crowd of big mean sweaty dykes would do with a man who claimed that his maleness made him naturally more dominant than them. <grin>

(in reply to strikingamatch)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/20/2005 8:50:12 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

As for the original post-- obviously, there are folks in BDSM who believe that gender dictates their roles, one way or another. I'm a dyke. Gender really doesn't determine anything in my circles! Although it would be interesting to see what the local crowd of big mean sweaty dykes would do with a man who claimed that his maleness made him naturally more dominant than them. <grin>


Go! Go! Go! mate.... Love the post. The only lesbians I have problems with are the "man haters". I do have a couple of close ftriens who are in the Dykes on Bikes group, They are great Dominants too.
quote:

it would be interesting to see what the local crowd of big mean sweaty dykes would do with a man who claimed that his maleness made him naturally more dominant than them
Sheesh I'd love to be a fly on the wall there too RWL

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to night101owl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Anyone else feel the same? - 8/21/2005 7:24:37 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		One gender isn't better than the other. Anyone that tells you different is either deluded or on a power trip.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 51
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