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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 1:18:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Isn't that a bit like asking someone: "Are you sure you're homosexual?, (or a bisexual)?" It's just kind of a ridiculous thing to say, IMO. Don't sweat it. It's the kind of statement people can makle to me when they say things like: How can you be a Switch - what is that like? (Ewwww). Aren't you just ever going to "make up your mind"? Etc.( Well. You can bet that if I ever do, I sure as heck won't be calling them to let them know...) Or: "You're just "confused." (because I am a Switch). I ignore them.

Some people are also just a wee bit unthinking. I used to be President of a social organization I belong to (for over 4 years, non-BDSM related) and I got offers all the time from peope offerring to fax me (via my non-existent fax machine, hehe) "suggestions" re: How to improve the functioning of the group, etc. - of course they never offerred to do the actual work involved themselves (or even help a little) - that was always my problem. These types give me a headache.

Once I even wrote a long editorial for the group's newsletter, asking if some folks actually realized that this was a volunteer organization - run by volunteers - and what that actually means, in practice. Even if it might have come off sounding a little whiny, it was totally justified. I got fewer complainers, after that. When I stepped down to let someone take over, I heard complaints for years afterward, (from these same lazy folks) whining that "there was less "fun stuff" to do (now that I wasn't working myself to death, voluntarily, on their behalf). I enjoyed being President (I really did) - But  -I can say the lazy members at times, truly made my job a pain in the ass.   

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/13/2007 1:49:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 1:23:42 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
And anyone smart enough to think for half a second will realize how false those stereotypes are- anyone else really isn't worth listening to.


That says it succinctly and I pick up on those here who are realistic enough to understand. I also pick up, in a humorous way, on those who say they are always Dom or sub. You would think Aunt Bee cooked pies just for them. 

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 8/13/2007 1:26:58 PM >

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 1:33:06 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I know some people have offered that you should just ignore it and self-power yourself with knowledge, but I take a different tact. Often, I'll state, "well, are you willing to step up to the plate and take over?" to which there's usually a half-hearted defensive response that NEVER amounts to an acknowledgement to do anything in the future so this poor submissive won't have to do any more organizing, or I'll get the infamous, "I'm just playing with you" response, to which I often respond (especially if I don't like the person): "Don't then", or "Fuck off then." Yeah, I make a lot of friends with the latter comment.



As a dom who has run a group and a munch in the past, let me say that the number of people willing to complain about anything in a group or at an event vastly outnumbers those willing to take on any responsibility. Knowing how to manage this is not a scene role specific skill. A group should feel blessed when someone (or more hopefully) are willing to do the work needed -- they should, but most of the time they won't.

Anyone else ever think that the "natural" human reaction is to bitch while appreciating and thanking someone is learned?

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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 1:48:02 PM   
limerentgirl


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, this is MY story, too!  I'm pretty new to all this, but I have to say that "in real life" I can be a full-on Type-A ball-busting biatch if needed.  I have run small companies nearly single-handedly and at one time had my own small biz in events production.  I have strong ideas and opinions, and don't generally hesitate to voice them; I like things as I like them, and I like being treated like a Princess.

But that said, I like to clarify that my inner Princess is a Frazetta Princess: strong and beautiful but so much more so in chains.  I don't submit easily, it's just not in me to do that.  And yet -- what I dream of is being dominated by someone worthy of the gift of my submission and judging by the emails I've gotten since coming on-board here, that man is rare as hen's teeth.  I get a lot of attitude about my attitude, lol. 

But it's okay, the so-called "Wanker Doms" are weeding themselves out thereby -- as someone said, without the "no," the "yes" is meaningless.  The right man will have the strength and self-confidence to value me -- ALL of me -- and he will know and appreciate what a gift he will have in me when he has worshipped me until I can do no more but bow before him...

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 2:18:01 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin

I've told them basically what i've said here. That i'm submissive in my personal relationships. Being a good leader doesn't make me less submissive.
But it gets incredibly frustrating to hear it a lot.

peace to all,
cravin



I agree 100% and can totally relate to this.  While I am shy and quite underspoken in real life, I am anything BUT submissive to the outside world.  Often I can be a force to be reckoned with in certain situations. However, this does not make me less of a submissive to someone that I choose to submit to.  I submit because I like to; it elicits emotions and feelings that nothing else can for me.  But I choose who I am going to share that with. 
It's not in my nature to walk around waiting for the entire world to control me.  In fact its actually in my nature to take control of anything and anyone around me that is less powerful than myself.  And I think that actually makes my choice to submit to someone in particular even more meaningful when it does happen.  
Furthermore, I would never allow someone to cause me to question my 'submissiveness' or what it means to me, or how it manifests with a person with whom I choose to share it.   I see it as a very personal thing anyway,  and not something that I would want (or need)  to be readily recognized by others.  In other words, in my world,  it only matters to me and the one I submit to.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 8/13/2007 3:11:25 PM >

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(in reply to cravinspankin)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 3:48:58 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin

I guess this post is two-fold, to hopefully help folks see that just because someone is a leader in teh community doesn't mean that they must be Dominant. Some of the best submissives are highly-organized, effective, take-control types in other aspects of their lives. In fact, the skills we submissives who are leaders have can be a great asset in a household.
Secondly, i guess im looking for some advice on how to handle this, when someone says something like that.
I've told them basically what i've said here. That i'm submissive in my personal relationships. Being a good leader doesn't make me less submissive.
But it gets incredibly frustrating to hear it a lot.

peace to all,
cravin


I say don't sweat the small shit. 

Seriously, the type of dominant that is intimidated by you is precisely the type of dominant you do not want.  Better to find it out early on.  I've had those kindsof lines tossed at me before, and between my organized, efficient type of style when I run an event as well as being fairly intelligent with multiple ivy degrees I found it difficult to find dominants who were not intimidated.  Even if they didn't say it, I could tell it.  And one of the things I love about my owner is that despite being grizzled he has sufficient life, education, etc experience that matches mine that he isn't bowled over by me at all.  So there are dominants out there that can handle and are capable enough to own the more type A personality submissives.

C~


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(in reply to cravinspankin)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 3:59:21 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		cravin'...as has been noted, do not let the opinions of a few idiots get you down.  The ability to run a group, keep it in focus, keep it moving in the direction is an indication of one thing...your own intelligence and the ability within you to do a job that many of those dominants who are calling into question your submission would not...nor could not...do.  It says nothing of your ability to submit yourself to another or your ability to yield to the will of another.

My first submissive ran a dental office when I met her and is the office manager for an insurance group.  My second submissive was in college and is now a graphics designer for a web-design firm.  My third submissive was a tech expert with Bell South.  All three in very competent positions...positions that require them to take charge and delegate tasks to others and oversee projects.  And all three of them can submit to the right figure in their lives. 

(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 4:31:33 PM   
HisAlphaSlaveJ


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		cravinspankin,
 
i can relate to this topic alot, i self identify as a alpha slave. and i constantly hear are you sure you are not dominant? no but i can take charge, run a event, be a kitchen miss for a formal leather dinner and run Masters household. what most people confuse is a skill set with a stero type label. i simply remind said person, slaves are strong, we have skills,  we have verve, we have character, we have balls...well ok i don't have balls but you get my point. the DFW group can be tough, stick to your guns, stick up for yourself and don't be afraid to be you.
 
smiles at ~s~
 


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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/13/2007 5:57:59 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline 		I get that on occassion too.

I'm in a social group and was the president of my local chapter at one time.  A friend, who knew I was a submissive, once told me he didn't think I'd make a good president.  You know, me being submissive and all.

*rolls eyes*

I wish I could say that the man was a vanilla and didn't understand the power exchange and stuff, but I can't.  He claimed to be a Dom of some years experience. 

(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/14/2007 2:23:30 PM   
Joseff


Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		Take heart, cravin, the community could use a few more like you. Every group needs someone who is willing and able to coordinate events and take care of the details that others just don't want to deal with. My wife is also one of those, despite her being my submissive. Unfortunately, your feelings will get hurt in this life, even those who are not short sighted and insensitive will blurt out the wrong thing on occasion. Take pride in your accomplishments, and have faith in your own self knowledge.
I kow this sounds like a string of platitudes, but someone had to say it.
Joseff

(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/14/2007 10:18:54 PM   
Ysabol


Posts: 34
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Ashland, New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I get a lot of grief too, because I am a switch, and a bit more on the dominant side than the submissive side. First, I get grief over being a switch in the first place. Then I get grief over how Dominant I am, etc, etc. I ignore it. If they don't understad, then it's up to them to educate themselves - not me. My Daddy is perfectly happy with how submissive I am to him - and HE is the only one that should be concerned with how submissive I am. As long as I make my Daddy happy, I don't care about any other comments I recieve.

May I also suggest something? Why not have a day of discussion about "Submissive, but Strong," and have a few discussions about the problem you're having? Educate the ones who don't understand that you can lead the meeting, but you're still submissive to your Dominant, and that's the ONLY person you're required to be submissive to. Maybe it would help?

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"That which yields is not always weak."
Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Dart.

(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/14/2007 10:37:12 PM   
SV1000


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline 		In my limited exposure to this very thing I've come to ponder why traits and individual actions are judged so quickly to mark who you are. Whether submissive, dom, or switch is it still not what you desire and your drive within that should define you, not the fact that you carry a trait that has been correlated to one of these roles?

< Message edited by SV1000 -- 8/14/2007 10:38:25 PM >

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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/14/2007 10:42:41 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		The slaves I'm interested in almost always have dominant, strong personalities. As for leadership, if they feel Dominants should be in control, they should volunteer.

Master Fire

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(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/14/2007 11:35:24 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am still figuring out why anyone would think that a sexually-oriented orientation (which is what I consider BDSM to be, for the most part) would have zilch to do with one's job performance and-or ability?

I mean, to me, it's like asking a homosexual if being gay is going to hinder someone's ability to perform a particular line of work. It's just kind of silly, in my opinion.

I am submissive or Dominant (I am a Switch) as an orientation to a partner - not toward co-workers, other Dominants or submissives, neighbors or family members. Even if I was, I doubt it would make me less efficient, or less a submissive, somehow. Anyway, I think it's silly anyone would assume that would automatically be true.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/14/2007 11:46:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/15/2007 12:13:28 AM   
RavensDreamer


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Stereotypes abound.

And anyone smart enough to think for half a second will realize how false those stereotypes are- anyone else really isn't worth listening to.

Being a leader of an alt group means that you'll always be doing at least 80% of the work.  Unless you can find a competent second hand man or successor, or unless you just give up- it's going to stay like that.


I agree LuckyAlbatross,

Just because one is a sub or slave, does not mean we have to be shy, meek and timid. I personaly am NONE of those things. But just because I can command attention when I need to, dosn't make me Dom.

So don't let anyone elses b.s. get to you cravinspankin!

< Message edited by RavensDreamer -- 8/15/2007 12:14:37 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/15/2007 1:50:44 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm another one of the busy-bossy-assertive types at work, who's a blissful sub in my personal life.

At work I'm assertive, organised...ok, I'm a bossy bitch.  But SOMEONE has to get things done, and that someone is usually me.  There always seems to be a line of people asking me to sort out problems for them.  And when work is done it's the same with family - I'm often the one who's expected to get things organised.  (And, let's face it, I like being needed and feeling a sense of accomplishment - I suspect that somehow I've made bossiness a part of my sub-hood.  I like to make people happy, even if it involves laying waste all those between me and the solution to the problem.)

After all that, it's just SO good to sink into blessed submission and let it all go.  I'll fight tooth, nail and claw for my right to be a sub. 

(in reply to RavensDreamer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submissives/slaves in leadership roles? - 8/15/2007 9:16:35 AM   
SlaveSubtoserve


Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		.....well this was initially a quandry for me also--- while being somewhat dominant in my vanilla/professional life to learn to get in touch with and cultivate my natural sub side in my BDSM life with that partner--- accepting and managing and cultivating the dichotomy is i guess one way to put it....

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 37
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